Macross Delta - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[stray]

Originally Posted by HirouKeimou

I never said the fold quartz did not "connect" them, I said it isn't related to the "fold network", as in no "fold space" is shown. The reason Frontier TV helps in this area of explanation is in its illustration of how the "fold network" is established. In False Songstress, Alto and Sheryl can "sense" each other via overlapping emotions but neither is able to actively "convey" their emotions to the other (i.e. Alto is unable to respond); meanwhile, in Frontier TV, Ranka and Sheryl convey their emotions via song like the Vajra, so their combined feelings could establish a "fold network". In Wings of Goodbye, this "fold network" of their (plus Alto for this one) combined emotions gives Alto "golden wings" which conveys their song to the Vajra.

Delta has a similar act of this (minus the Vajra) because of the HayaFre dynamic in the first half equally rivaling that of Ranka and Sheryl (i.e. episode 1 showcases her song pulling him into an endless sky); their increase in emotions either for their situations or each other is where their connection becomes a little unstable (does so for Alto and Sheryl in Frontier TV, too).

The point is: The fold quartz is said in Frontier TV, mind you, to be able to communicate emotions across the fold network, not be a tool for entering the fold network. It's a little different.

That was not stated in the series; moreover if it had been framed that way the Galaxy hive mind would not have been able to utilize it as they did. The series left things incredibly nebulous with vague comments by Ranka that the "Vajra have feelings!" and an infodump by Leon who was unreliable to begin with by virtue of being a villian.

In fact, as I said earlier, Mikumo is a good question to rise because her scene of entering fold space with Heinz is done without fold quartz and mind-controlled by the ruins. Where is the combination of "emotions" which Alto and Sheryl so-called demonstrated in False Songstress in her scene? You could say Delta is giving a whole new light on what the "fold network" really is and it might not be a product of the fold quartz itself or the Vajra. I'm leaning towards it's a Protoculture thing in Delta.

Which, could add up: Because if the Vajra were a product of Protoculture like many other species (this is never explored in Frontier at all), then all logic could point towards this "fold network" or "shared mind/emotions" could be a piece of Protoculture. I mean, it's all logical, Protoculture is a big thing in Macross and very little is ever discovered or explained about it aside from where it's a plot device.

As others have said the lore is clear that the Vajra are not a product of the Protoculture; moreover what we've seen in Delta so far is Protoculture tech that is likely derivative of the Vajra. To put it kinda simply, the Protoculture were major fuckups who had a fondness for genetic engineering and leaving extinction level easter eggs behind so its hard to say whether being able to activate (or having "resonance" with) PC artifacts is even a good thing.

I feel like I'm going in circles here though because as I've already said in like my first post on the subject Alto got his "golden wings" when he started dancing. He wasn't simply "relaying" Ranka and Sheryl's song; he wasn't "powered up", he was willingly part of the show, playing his 'song' so to speak.

Which is why I said Alto is a pro, and so far Hayate is just kind of a fanboy.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by stray

I feel like I'm going in circles here though because as I've already said in like my first post on the subject Alto got his "golden wings" when he started dancing. He wasn't simply "relaying" Ranka and Sheryl's song; he wasn't "powered up", he was willingly part of the show, playing his 'song' so to speak.

Which is why I said Alto is a pro, and so far Hayate is just kind of a fanboy.

And I tell you: It's your interpretation but is NOT what occurred in the damn movie:

Spoiler for Sayonara no Tsubasa:

He gains his "resolve" by experiencing flashes from the Vajra and realizes what he's feeling is "the Vajra's pain." Of which he throws on her earring.

Sheryl and Ranka come together and their song amplifies his resolve like it does in Delta for Hayate. He is not dancing until after this scene, mind you.

He gains his "golden wings" only after Sheryl and Ranka combine their song with his resolve because he realizes "it's the Vajra's pain." Maybe you should re-watch the movie.

Now I'm going to end this conversation here.

Delta is going to end soon and maybe all questions on the "fold network" and its integration into Delta will be answered.

[stray]

Originally Posted by HirouKeimou

He gains his "golden wings" only after Sheryl and Ranka combine their song with his resolve because he realizes "it's the Vajra's pain." Maybe you should re-watch the movie.

Now I'm going to end this conversation here.

Delta is going to end soon and maybe all questions on the "fold network" and its integration into Delta will be answered.

I mean... Sheryl and Ranka are "his wings" but there's a huge element of Alto taking the stage again so to speak that I think you're overlooking. Sorry.

Anyway more on topic I think my new prediction is Mirage will end up in another galaxy... she's just too good, too pure for this world.

[Falulu hime]

Is not it suspicious that Roid seal that room? The woman image was identical to Mikumo. Because Mikumo had a vision in ep 14. Despite explanations her in ep 21, I don't think she's an experiment or clone. I have a theory that Mikumo is Star Singer.
I would love to hear other opinions on the matter.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Falulu hime

Is not it suspicious that Roid seal that room? The woman image was identical to Mikumo. Because Mikumo had a vision in ep 14. Despite explanations her in ep 21, I don't think she's an experiment or clone. I have a theory that Mikumo is Star Singer.
I would love to hear other opinions on the matter.

It could just be like with the main girl from the Fifth Element film. A supernatural creature with memory encoded in her DNA, and even though she was physically killed at the start of the movie she was rebuilt using her surviving severed left hand.

Alternately the Star Singer could have had Cloud Backup of her own ancient memories in those ruins, and when Mikumo interfaced with it she got updated with the lost files and regained what she once was. If the Star Singer is so important, it is very unlikely Protoculture would make them so vulnerable from being lost.

[CrowKenobi]

Moved the ep 23 discussion to the anime general discussion thread. Let's try to stay on topic here.

[Incest Emblem]

Originally Posted by Ura-dora

The idea of a Windermerean's life-span being shortened by their runes was foreshadowed during one of the earlier episodes when Roid stated to Kieth, "we can't afford for Heinz's runes to dry up." This episode pretty much confirms that theory. The more Cassim's rune shined, the more his body began to crystalize.

Therein lies the problem with predicting the same for Freyja: Both Heinz and Cassim showed visible calcification of their bodies as they used up their runes.

In Heinz's case, a switch in the doctor, Roid's arrangements, and Heinz's cooperation was able ot hide the calcification for a time. In Cassim's case, he appears to be a lone most of the time and wears a full body suit. We have not seen the aerial knights sharing a changing room.

In Freyja's case, it is quite different.

Images

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Although we did not see Freyja's lower body, the Walkure members certainly would have. It would be quite odd if they saw large patches of calcification as on Heinz and Cassim's bodies and mentioned nothing whatsoever.

[Thess]

Freyja isn't affected by the crack yet, she could be in the future episodes, but we've seen her body and she looks ok. Speaking of Heinz:

Spoiler for image size:

Every time I see him, I want them to call social services.

Originally Posted by Incest Emblem

Although we did not see Freyja's lower body, the Walkure members certainly would have. It would be quite odd if they saw large patches of calcification as on Heinz and Cassim's bodies and mentioned nothing whatsoever.

Her legs are exposed too with those short skirts.