Re:Zero - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[Kaneco]

Originally Posted by Applehell

No really isn't. Maybe you got from movies where such things ate dramatize, but pain no way less worse. Yhis is pointless distinction.




I don't what you're talking about because nothing suggest she kinapped him out of murderous rage. Yes she was upset about his possible betrayal but it is obivious she try to separate from group to question him about what was going in a position where she be at an advangte. She needs to know what is going on before she can ask anything else becauae she is not even sure he's a traitor or not.




What makes you think "Gluttony " has anything at all to do with this?

Because the Whale was called Gluttony by Pack/Puck...so I'm speculating that either another Whale is at work here...or the Cult sect of Gluttony is somehow involved. Would make sense...if they're around seeing that the Whale called/referred as 'Gluttony' by Pack/Puck was around.

My guess is that the sect would be able to use similar powers or maybe just the Archbishop. But that's just me speculating...I could be entirely wrong and probably have Ram asking Subaru about Rem the next time they talk...or Subaru bringing up Rem in the conversation and see how she responds. Doubt there's a second whale...also this being the case would be a perfect way to introduce other Sin sects to end the season & give hype to the next one.

What's your take on this? Seeing how the author has been shaping up the story, it would be a nice twist...and we all know he loves to be a sadist to his audience with his grim-like twists. Lmao!


EDIT: Another thing that does make think this is the case from one of my previous 'deleted' posts...is the 'Blank Letter', I'm highly suspicious about the letter being 'blank' in the first place...Subaru was confused when they brought it up, and if he didn't write it...then whoever wrote it, should have had the same amount of intelligence as Julius & the others about sending a 'Blank Letter' & it equating to a declaration of 'War'...too many coincidences that it makes me feel the power to erase someone's existence as well as their belongings and/or anything that was influenced by them, which might be Gluttony's power is involved in this.

Unless a traitor is behind the scenes and swapped the letters for a blank one...hmm. I think I'll stick with my erasing theory for now, seems pretty tangible atm and far more interesting of a plot device/twist than a mere traitor switching letters to cause chaos between both groups.

[Applehell]

Can't awnser you're speculations since I already know what's going to happen, just wanted to know how you made the connection between that and Rem. As far as anime has shown only the White Whale has that power and unless it suddenly resurrected with half it's body, she should be on a convoy back to the capital. You're theories definitely aren't impossible but they don't mesh well with what we know at the moment.

[Kaneco]

Originally Posted by Applehell

Can't awnser you're speculations since I already know what's going to happen, just wanted to know how you made the connection between that and Rem. As far as anime has shown only the White Whale has that power and unless it suddenly resurrected with half it's body, she should be on a convoy back to the capital. You're theories aren't impossible but they don't mesh well with what we know at the moment.

Oh no...Please do not confirm or deny any of this. I want to avoid as much convo with people that know what will or will not happen...I'm already paranoid enough about spoilers with the deleted posts.

Anyways, read my last edit to my previous post about the blank letter. Assuming there's only one whale...pretty much how the Whale was built up to be this entity that has terrorized the Kingdom for 400 years, makes me think there's only one...you would think they would mention about there being several.

Seeing how its split parts disappeared when the main body died makes me think no part of it lived...it's like they were Naruto's Shadow Clones or Piccolo's Dividing body technique...unless you can resurrect people/animals/mabeasts in this world...another way would just be for someone to create another mabeast whale, although it was told that mabeasts and/or the Whale were the witch's creation.

So my guess is that there's no 2nd whale...but the connection I'm making Puck/Pack referring it as Gluttony makes me think that if its abilities are being used to affect current events post-the whale being dead...then it has to be the Gluttony sect of the Witch Cult that can use the same powers as the whale...or similar powers.

Well not like it matters...because if Subaru did die at the end of the episode, then he's going to go back in time...and we don't even know how far back his checkpoint is, could be a new one where it's post-killing the whale or the old one before they killed the whale...I want to be positive about this, so I think the checkpoint will be right after the Whale's death.

Well all this conjecture I'm making will sort of matter if the events play out the same or in similar fashion.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Applehell

No really isn't. Maybe you got from movies where such things ate dramatize, but pain no way less worse. Yhis is pointless distinction.

I don't what you're talking about because nothing suggest she kinapped him out of murderous rage. Yes she was upset about his possible betrayal but it is obivious she try to separate from group to question him about what was going in a position where she be at an advangte. She needs to know what is going on before she can ask anything else becauae she is not even sure he's a traitor or not.

It's true. Seeing Rem brutally killed by Betelgeuse sent Subaru into a rage. Whereas Rem being killed by the White Whale out of sight resulted in feelings of loss.

I wasn't suggesting anything that. I was saying that under the assumption that Ram knew Rem wasn't dead from their connection. She had already believed Subaru had betrayed them so how could she assume Rem was okay and not even ask about her? It just doesn't make sense.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by bakato

It's true. Seeing Rem brutally killed by Betelgeuse sent Subaru into a rage. Whereas Rem being killed by the White Whale out of sight resulted in feelings of loss.

I wasn't suggesting anything that. I was saying that under the assumption that Ram knew Rem wasn't dead from their connection. She had already believed Subaru had betrayed them so how could she assume Rem was okay and not even ask about her? It just doesn't make sense.

For the same reason why she didn't run off immediately to Crusch's estate when she got the blank letter (if we are to asume as you said she is actually rash and overly emotional) instead of standing by and guarding the way to the village or attempting striaghtt up abduct Subaru after casting illusion rather than attacking him or why she readily believed him with a bit of coaxing and the mentioning of the letter. It's because she had doubts and knew she working off an assumptions with limited infomation and was trying ascertian the truth from Subaru (bare in mind she only considered he might have betrayed Emilia when he came strolling in with that army) without putting herself in danger. Asking if her sister was alive instead of asking Subaru for an explantaion of why army is here would mean she whole hearted believe he was an actual traitor. Even if he awnsered there was no way she could tell he wasn't lying. It would better understand his intent to clear things up and work from there.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Applehell

For the same reasons why she didn't run off immediately to Crusch's estate when she got the blank letter (if we are to asume as you said she is actually rash and overly emotional) instead of standing by and guarding the way to the village or attempting striaghtt up abduct Subaru after casting illusion rather than attacking him or why she readily believed him with a bit of coaxing and the mentioning of the letter. It's because she had doubts and knew she working off an assumptions with limited infomation and was trying ascertian the truth from Subaru (bare in mind she only considered he might have betrayed Emilia when he came strolling in with that army) without putting herself in danger. Asking if her sister was alive instead of asking Subaru for an explantaion of why army is here would mean she whole hearted believe he was an actual traitor. Even if he awnsered there was no way she could tell he wasn't lying. It would better understand his intent to clear things up and work from there.

There probably wasn't any time. I never said that. My point was that Ram is capable of acting calmly unless she knows Rem is dead. Guarding the village? Did you forget arc 2? Ram's practically crippled and with Roswaal away, defending the village is impossible for her. Even with Emilia, there's no way they could hold off an army. It's more likely she attempted to abduct Subaru not just to interrogate, but to also hold as a hostage. After all, if there's anything he's good at it's being a meat shield.

bare in mind she only considered he might have betrayed Emilia when he came strolling in with that army

He sent a blank letter. There's not much to mistake on that. Her words left no doubt that she believed him to be a traitor.

That said, there was no option she had that didn't involve putting herself in danger. Diving into the middle of an army is hardly a walk in the park. Subaru earned her trust by not restraining her and simply explaining himself. There wasn't any reason not to believe him considering if he really had betrayed them he could have easily just killed her.

Let me make myself clear. Ram believed Subaru to be a trader. If she assumed Rem was dead, she would have just as easily tried to kill Subaru instead of trying to abduct him. So that's unlikely to be the case here. If she assumed Rem was alive on account of their connection, Ram could only assume Rem was injured and/or imprisoned. In which case, she'd probably be angry and at least demanded to know what happened to her instead of asking for an explanation about the army.

[relentlessflame]

I just want to reiterate that novel-based commentary on speculation is entirely forbidden, and speculation does not belong in this thread in the first place.

We have two threads for speculation:
Speculation and Theories for First Time Anime Viewers
Spoilers and Speculation for Experienced Re:Zero Readers Only

Please use the appropriate thread depending on your situation (and if you are a novel reader, do not reply to speculation in the first-timers thread).

Future speculation in this thread (or other episode threads) will be deleted.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by bakato

There probably wasn't any time. I never said that. My point was that Ram is capable of acting calmly unless she knows Rem is dead. Guarding the village? Did you forget arc 2? Ram's practically crippled and with Roswaal away, defending the village is impossible for her. Even with Emilia, there's no way they could hold off an army. It's more likely she attempted to abduct Subaru not just to interrogate, but to also hold as a hostage. After all, if there's anything he's good at it's being a meat shield.

She doesn't know that Rem is dead, heck she didn't even know about Subaru's status until literally just now. All she and Emilia got was perplexing out of the blue blank letter from someone they already had contract without much in the way of context. It could have ment that Crusch had no longer planned to have relations with them, a delcaration of war or just mistake/misunderstanding somewhere. The point is they had nothing much to go but to prepare for the worst just in case.

He sent a blank letter. There's not much to mistake on that. Her words left no doubt that she believed him to be a traitor.

You're mixing things up here. Ram didn't know that it was Subaru who sent the letter until he told her himself. She had on idea otherwise. Ram would assume that blank letter was sent by Crusch herself since her family seal and messager both belonged to her. The actual reason why she thought Subaru might have betrayed them was likely due to seeing he was with the army that was coming here plus the timing of letter which implied hostilities.

That said, there was no option she had that didn't involve putting herself in danger. Diving into the middle of an army is hardly a walk in the park. Subaru earned her trust by not restraining her and simply explaining himself. There wasn't any reason not to believe him considering if he really had betrayed them he could have easily just killed her.

Yet that's exact what she did. Ram isn't stupid, she wouldn't doing something that didn't have a good chance of working. Frankly it almost did work, the only reason she didn't get away was because Julius who is a rare type of magic user was luckly to be there to dispel it.

Let me make myself clear. Ram believed Subaru to be a trader. If she assumed Rem was dead, she would have just as easily tried to kill Subaru instead of trying to abduct him. So that's unlikely to be the case here. If she assumed Rem was alive on account of their connection, Ram could only assume Rem was injured and/or imprisoned. In which case, she'd probably be angry and at least demanded to know what happened to her instead of asking for an explanation about the army.

I never said that she didn't believe he wasn't a tratior, just not completely which is shone thruogh her actions and dialogue. Rather than addressing Subaru directly as she should have if she truly believe he had betrayed Emilia, she stole him away instead. The only reason to do this is to pump him for information so she can learn what is going on. Using him as hostage is worthless because as far as she knows he's not a person of importance to Crusch since he has no noticable abilites or holds an important position. Even if Ram killed him it wouldn't effect the war potenial of the army at all. The fact Subaru didn't kill her after the capture would have raise those doubts further hence why she is more willing to hear him out. As you said, if she was 100% sure of him being a turncoat she wouldn't ask for an explanation. She cleary caught on the idea that not everything was as it seems.

At very least this what I feel that are also valid interpretations of her actions.

[Mr. DJ]

I'm gonna need this series to stop putting me in my feelings. They gonna kill mah boy towards the end of the season like that after he's made so much progress!? Bruh....

[leongsh]

I think I know why the letter is blank after reading through this thread. I had 2 options cross my mind after watching the episode but with the administrator mentioning deleting some posts in this thread, it just confirmed one of the 2 options that I thought about. No posting of what it could be here. I will share what I think is the reason via PM if anyone is curious. I may hit the target or be utterly wrong

[Jaden]

Well, Subaru kinda dropped the ball by running away.

He could've asked Felis to knock him out, or for Puck to put him in a magical prison or something, then have them figure out some way to exorcise Betelgeuse. It seems to me like it wasn't a completely hopeless situation yet.

He was lucky that Felis followed him and killed him. If Betelgeuse escaped with him...he could have been stuck for god knows how long.

[Applehell]

He doesn't know that and we don't know that. The thing is that it happened so suddenly Subaru had little time to think. He couldn't understand what was happeing to his body and why but he knew was bad. So I think trying to get from everyone to avoid any coliteral was best he could do on short notice and panicked state.

[Moridin]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

...moridin's point...

Wait, what? I did not make any points until now :P I like the name of the guy you are quoting though

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

Is there a connection between Cult's bible with body transfer?

My thoughts exactly. The reason the fingers gets turned into Betlegeuse is probably different (or maybe they have all been made to hold the book) but the reason Subaru does is probably due to him holding the book.

Originally Posted by FlameSparkZ

As it was mentioned earlier, the gospel might be acting as a sort of "anchor" for Betelguese. Each time he was killed, he transfered himself to the fingers and when all fingers died, he might have gone to the gospel, which was being carried by Subaru.

Hopefully, destroying the gospel will be the answer to beating Betelguese.

Yeah, and we never did see them kill Subaru. Maybe the sword will hit, or did hit, the book, causing Betelgeuse to be exorcised. My guess is that next week won't start with a return by death, instead we will all be tricked by some clever plottwist.

[Drake]

It may not have anything to do with the book, and more to do with Subaru's high sensitivity/affinity to spirits (as Julius mentioned). Maybe people who are more sensitive or have a higher affinity to spirits are easier to possess ?

[Applehell]

No previews again today...

I guess it's true they will be on Saturday from now on.

[Dengar]

The fact that Subaru is already blessed by the witch might also help.

[Kaneco]

Originally Posted by Dengar

The fact that Subaru is already blessed by the witch might also help.

Pretty much the sole reason why I even think that's possible & why Bettlejuice thinks he's the best vessel he's had in decades.

Crazy to think that's the only thing he needs to take over his body...so makes me think that there's either a trigger to mark his body for possession like touching the tome/gospel or a distance thing...where he needs to be as far away as possible from the last vessel (when killed) in order to not be possessed. It'll be too OP of an ability if he can just takeover anyone, no matter the distance at any point in time...without prerequisites.

Hopefully we do find out about the limitations of said ability in this upcoming episode.

Wonder what the trigger is...could be touching the Gospel, is going to be my current guess. The whole becoming a devout member of the cult if you receive one of these, and others being afraid of touching it or even looking at it based on said rumors...leads me to believe that might be the trigger after all.

...or no limitations or prerequisites, Subaru can always try to invoke Satella's presence through uttering the RbD line and see if Satella can expel his essence as he's trying to take over Subaru...maybe that's the only way if his abilities are THAT OP. Hmm...

[AB079]

Hmm so for the next episode no preview until tomorrow, I wonder if WF will release a preview for the last episode but I have the feeling that wont be the case.

I don't want to see this series ending, hopefully WF can deliver a second season considering the BD's are always over 8.5k to 10k aprox.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by AB079

Hmm so for the next episode no preview until tomorrow, I wonder if WF will release a preview for the last episode but I have the feeling that wont be the case.

I don't want to see this series ending, hopefully WF can deliver a second season considering the BD's are always over 8.5k to 10k aprox.

IMO, I think we more than likely have a potenial lock on that. It's more of a question where LN verisons of Arc 4 and 5 will be in one- two years from now at this point.

[Kakurin]

YouTube

https://youtu.be/38fWYB7TKY4

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