Love Live! Sunshine - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

This is entering the realm of fan fiction really.

Chika can and does relax around You.

Maybe if they're just having fun at the beach. But when it comes to anything more serious than that, there are some boundaries there.

Chika is still friendly with You, but things aren't as tight between her and You as they were in the first 3 episodes. That's mostly because circumstances haven't allowed them to be.

Why do you think they had You look at Chika looking at Riko, and then have You make this "startled realization" face? You really think there's nothing much to it at all? Total red herring? I find that highly unlikely. Things have changed some here. Chika and Riko have made a very strong connection.

I'm understanding of Chika because things have changed here, as a natural consequence of Aqours forming, of Chika making new friends, and Chika working hard to be leader of Aqours.

[SleepingTerror]

Erm. Just watched the full PV/MV of Aquarium. I think all of our ships are going to crash and burn.

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by SleepingTerror

That is the meaning of brief. Or do you prefer me to say You was dismissed? Given the cold shoulder? Shut down?

Nothing of the sort has happened. The only thing Chika did was not saying what was on her mind.

Originally Posted by SleepingTerror

It isn't a mystery when you consider that it has happened multiple times. Close friends don't have to tell each other everything, but that's what Chika and Riko do, and they're close friends. You doesn't fit this category anymore.

They aren't telling each other everything. No really, they don't. This is about Riko's piano competition / participation in Love Live so of course she will be part of any discussion about that matter.

If You had a swimming competition on the same day Chika would discuss it with You, not Riko. There is no difference. Would that mean that Riko became less of a friend than she is? Obviously not.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Why do you think they had You look at Chika looking at Riko, and then have You make this "startled realization" face? You really think there's nothing much to it at all? Total red herring? I find that highly unlikely. Things have changed some here. Chika and Riko have made a very strong connection.

I am saying that whatever there is to it comes from You only. Chika/Riko did make a connection but in no way does that weaken the Chika->You connection. Perhaps it temporarily weakens the You->Chika connection but claiming that this puts their relationship on a lower level is nonsense.

[SleepingTerror]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

They aren't telling each other everything. No really, they don't.

Give me one example of something Chika doesn't tell Riko.

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by SleepingTerror

Give me one example of something Chika doesn't tell Riko.

I could make up anything that directly concerns someone else than Riko and you wouldn't be able to refute it, but for the sake of argument let's just say a hypothetical swimming competition for You.
If Chika were in a similar situation with <enter name =/= Riko> she would handle it just like she did with Riko.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

I am saying that whatever there is to it comes from You only.

Who did Chika confide in after the big "0" event in Episode 8? Was it new friend Riko or old best friend You? Which of the two did Chika put up a strong front for, and which of the two did Chika pour out her real feelings/hurts to?

SleepingTerror has a point - So far, most of the strongest one-to-one FEELS moments in this show are between Chika and Riko. Episode 1, Episode 2, Episode 7, Episode 8, Episode 10 all had this.

You don't find it strange at all that there's not more of these moments for Chika and You, the two best friends at Episode 1?

I'm inclined to think it means something. Something about Chika.

At a bare minimum, I'm inclined to think it means Chika's personality is more like Riko's than it's like You's.

[SleepingTerror]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

I could make up anything that directly concerns someone else than Riko and you wouldn't be able to refute it, but for the sake of argument let's just say a hypothetical swimming competition for You.

I thought it was obvious I meant something Chika was experiencing, not You, but I guess not.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Chika micromanages her relationships. What concerns You won't concern Riko unless You's concern is Riko. That goes back to the truth of Aqours' 2nd years that it's two friendships with three people and not three people with one friendship. Chika and You's relationship hasn't devalued; Chika and Riko's relationship is, well, stronger

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Akuma Kousaka

Chika and You's relationship hasn't devalued; Chika and Riko's relationship is, well, stronger

This might make a good compromise position between Eisdrache and me. I could go with it myself.

[Kotohono]

Originally Posted by SleepingTerror

That is the meaning of brief. Or do you prefer me to say You was dismissed? Given the cold shoulder? Shut down?
It isn't a mystery when you consider that it has happened multiple times. Close friends don't have to tell each other everything, but that's what Chika and Riko do, and they're close friends. You doesn't fit this category anymore.

I feel this to me is largely due to You thinking is the similar as her, thus thinking it's ok to try to get Chika confront so directly & talk about things right there where ever with whoever is there because of You's straightforward nature. Meanwhile Chika shown she doesn't like being that direct and prefers to talk about things more personally it where she seemed the most comfortable & open, imo. We've yet to see You try to talk to just Chika, it's always been with everyone around, so Chika is visibly uncomfortable with this approach each time. Thus You & Chika seem to be a on different page.

[SleepingTerror]

Originally Posted by Akuma Kousaka

Chika and You's relationship hasn't devalued; Chika and Riko's relationship is, well, stronger

This may have been how it started off as. Chika revealed herself to You in the first episode by telling her how she never felt she had anything special about herself but after watching Muse perform she thought becoming an idol was something she could do (something like that). This is not unlike what Chika told Riko in the later episodes, after experiencing failure. Chika revealed a part about her that she wasn't entirely comfortable with to You. She opened up to You.
Later on, we get none of the scenes with You and Chika by themselves because Riko and Chika is now a thing. I'm going to make a weird analogy. You and Riko are ice cream flavors. Chika has always found You flavor to her taste, but after experiencing Riko, she finds she prefers Riko. As a result, she decides to keep choosing Riko flavor over You flavor. Her fondness for You ultimately has not changed, but why choose You when you can have Riko? Why is it that Chika chooses to confide in Riko and not both of them? Because Chika no longer feels it necessary to tell You anything.

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Who did Chika confide in after the big "0" event in Episode 8? Was it new friend Riko or old best friend You? Which of the two did Chika put up a strong front for, and which of the two did Chika pour out her real feelings/hurts to?

She put up a front for everyone including Riko, not just You.
The only reason why Chika showed her frustration to Riko is, well, because they are neighbours and Riko saw her leaving to the beach, something You was physically not able to do. You could swap Riko with You in that situation and the result would be basically the same.

Originally Posted by SleepingTerror

I thought it was obvious I meant something Chika was experiencing, not You, but I guess not.

It's faulty logic to begin with. There is hardly any reason for her to discuss a matter that only concerns Riko with You if she can handle it by herself. It's not like she deliberately kept it a secret with the (ill) intent to hide it from You, she simply made the decision to take care of it the way she did. Whether you want to attach any meaning to that is up to you but that's pure speculation.

[SleepingTerror]

Originally Posted by Kotohono

Meanwhile Chika shown she doesn't like being that direct and prefers to talk about things more personally it where she seemed the most comfortable & open, imo.

You're addressing another problem as well, why does Chika not feel comfortable talking to everyone in the group about her problems? I mean, no doubt she'll be closer to You and Riko, but this really shouldn't be an issue anymore. They're an idol group. They depend on each other. Is it really okay for the rest of the group to be kept in the dark about Chika's concerns?

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

It's faulty logic to begin with. There is hardly any reason for her to discuss a matter that only concerns Riko with You if she can handle it by herself. It's not like she deliberately kept it a secret with the (ill) intent to hide it from You, she simply made the decision to take care of it the way she did.

Sorry, what? I didn't say anything about a matter that concerns Riko. I said Chika's experiences. As in, give me an example of something Chika has experienced that she has not shared with Riko.

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by SleepingTerror

It isn't a mystery when you consider that it has happened multiple times. Close friends don't have to tell each other everything, but that's what Chika and Riko do, and they're close friends. You doesn't fit this category anymore.

Your original point was that Chika/Riko are closer than Chika/You because they're sharing everything with each other. It's faulty because "everything" is pretty much one (1) issue that Chika didn't tell You about that directly concerned Riko, it would be much stranger for her to not be involved and also because whether or not there is something that Chika is not telling Riko by itself wouldn't prove anything for either side, which is basically what I said in my last post.

[SleepingTerror]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

It's faulty because "everything" is pretty much one (1) issue that Chika didn't tell You about that directly concerned Riko, it would be much stranger for her to not be involved and also because whether or not there is something that Chika is not telling Riko by itself wouldn't prove anything for either side.

I really, really hate repeating myself -_-
Again, I'm not talking about Riko. I'm talking about Chika confiding with Riko about her Chika's issues. It hasn't been one issue. Chika has repeatedly been shown to be insecure with her role as leader. She has not confided with You about this. She has confided with Riko about this. Chika's insecurities is what I mean by "everything."

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by SleepingTerror

I really, really hate repeating myself -_-
Again, I'm not talking about Riko. I'm talking about Chika confiding with Riko about her Chika's issues. It hasn't been one issue. Chika has repeatedly been shown to be insecure with her role as leader. She has not confided with You about this. She has confided with Riko about this. Chika's insecurities is what I mean by "everything."

And there lies the irony. Chika can never confide her insecurities as a leader, because she is the leader of Aqours, and to reveal how challenged she feels by this position, in her inexperienced viewpoint, undermines the confidence the rest of Aqours has in her leadership. So, on the front of not confiding with anyone outside the Second Years (with the possible exception of Kanan, but not enough has been done about their childhood friendship yet); that's understandable.

Of course, Chika not confiding with You doesn't fall into that same dynamic here, but once again, I reiterate my theory that it's self-consideration that is keeping Chika from spilling everything. It doesn't help that You often tries to initiate those moments in public, in-front of the rest of Aqours - for example, in Episode 8 when she asked whether Chika was giving up , or 10 when she asked Chika during dinner what was wrong. Those were actually very bad times to invite Chika to be vulnerable and open up, because this is the last thing Chika wants to do infront of Aqours. Herein, we see Chika's lack of natural talent in social relationships, and a very un-Honoka sense of self-consciousness coming into play.

Given that the current dynamic is happening because the Second Years were never a trio but two duos, I get that the last arc would be Chika having to confront the issues brought about by this dynamic, and possibly making a trio out of two duos. If indeed, the last arc is about the Second Years being a proper trio, I have a suspicion Chika is going to need the help of the Third Years, who are a proper trio and hence familiar with trio dynamics. I think Kanan might well be crucial to resolving the gradual drifting apart of Chika and You; both on accounts being part of a trio herself, as well as the fact that Chika, You and Kanan were the original childhood trio. It does raise something quite ironic in light of the current situation - Kanan was a member of parallel trios - a childhood trio of Chika, You and Kanan, and a class-mate trio of Kanan, Mari and Dia.

[Nork22]

Heh... while it's nice we are getting some character studies and discussions on the 2nd years, I'm amused that some parts of the Japanese fandom (Yaraon) has picked up on the Western fandom's interpretation and translation of that scene.

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by Nork22

Heh... while it's nice we are getting some character studies and discussions on the 2nd years, I'm amused that some parts of the Japanese fandom (Yaraon) has picked up on the Western fandom's interpretation and translation of that scene.

Interesting. Could you elaborate more?

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by SleepingTerror

I really, really hate repeating myself -_-
Again, I'm not talking about Riko. I'm talking about Chika confiding with Riko about her Chika's issues. It hasn't been one issue. Chika has repeatedly been shown to be insecure with her role as leader. She has not confided with You about this. She has confided with Riko about this. Chika's insecurities is what I mean by "everything."

The only time Chika speaks about her insecurities as a leader to Riko without You being present is back in episode 7 at the inn, when they talk about meeting expectations. It doesn't come up again after that.

In episode 8 Chika tries to mask her frustration but later vents it anyway after Riko gives her a pep talk. You is right there as well.

In episode 9 nothing happens in that regard as it covers the 3rd years drama.

In episode 10 they do talk together a lot. About Riko's piano competition that is. You asks Chika if something is wrong and she tells her it's alright. Then the camera zooms to Riko. You pretty much guesses that something is going on between Chika and Riko but cannot really tell what.

Basically the reason for You's anxiety is not that Chika is confiding in Riko about leadership issues instead of her, there is no basis for that argument since it doesn't happen to begin with.

[blakstealth]

Originally Posted by Nork22

Heh... while it's nice we are getting some character studies and discussions on the 2nd years, I'm amused that some parts of the Japanese fandom (Yaraon) has picked up on the Western fandom's interpretation and translation of that scene.

You can't leave us hanging like this, man!