Log Horizon - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I should note at this point that I subscribe to the "Elder Tale is a parallel world the players got transported to, not the game world that inexplicably became real" theory. The later is easier to explain, as the world of Elder Tale has magic to allow the apocalypse to happen, whereas a game becoming real is a lot harder to explain.

Exactly that's my point, now it looks we finaly getting somewhere.

[Ickarium]

My current theory is based on the translation of "Novasphere" as "Noosphere", which I'm told is possible with the Japanese. I've mentioned this somewhere before.

IE, the Elder Tale they're in is a construct of the mind. It is a new world, but it's not just a new world. It was created by the mental energy of all the players over time, and hit critical mass at some point and became its own dimension and people got sucked in. Or such.

Look up Noosphere on wikipedia.

[Ayulsa]

Originally Posted by Ickarium

My current theory is based on the translation of "Novasphere" as "Noosphere", which I'm told is possible with the Japanese. I've mentioned this somewhere before.

IE, the Elder Tale they're in is a construct of the mind. It is a new world, but it's not just a new world. It was created by the mental energy of all the players over time, and hit critical mass at some point and became its own dimension and people got sucked in. Or such.

Look up Noosphere on wikipedia.

The author actually said that one of the core ideas of the series is based on the essay called "Homesteading the Noosphere", written by Eric S. Raymond.

[Ickarium]

Oh did he? Then that makes my theory more concrete. Coolness.

[darksassin]

Originally Posted by aohige

Uhm, I'm not sure what your point is, because you just described exactly why "Landers don't need Adventurers".
Inconvenienced is not = "need"

I guess what I meant to say is yes, the Landers do not need Adventurers economically/ for day to day life since they are self sufficient even without the Adventurers, its just that the Landers would benefit from interacting with Adventurers since as tsunade666 said it, adventurers in this stage are consumers.

BUT, we do not know if Adventurers are needed or not concerning other aspects in life of the Landers. Are Adventurers similar to Superheroes, needed when something threaten normal people's day to day life? Or are the Adventurers just pest in this world, that would just harm the Landers with their violence and bloodshed? It can go either way really.

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

i would say more inconvient then cripple. Adventures can produce raw material but since there are more landers it would be easier for landers to produce raw materials at greater quanities.

I wonder if the Adventurers can farm or not since no where in the anime indicate that Adventurers can farm.How about metal? can they mine? So far the anime only shows that the way adventurers can get raw materials are loot from monster and buying from Landers. So it is possible that not just quantity, the adventurers would probably be having limited type of materials/items without Landers. So yeah, I agree with you.

Edit: Please try to refrain the spoiler. Author input is probably spoilerish at this time

[Tenzen12]

There is plenty of subclasses for character disposal. Considering there is even maid, such ones as farmer or miner seems to be obvious. I didn't look on wikia regarding of that as I am not sure whether you consider it spoilerish (it should be quite general knowledge), but I guess it should be quite easily provable metter.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Exactly that's my point, now it looks we finaly getting somewhere.

... But that still leaves us with "why did someone create the adventurer system if it isn't needed?"

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I should note at this point that I subscribe to the "Elder Tale is a parallel world the players got transported to, not the game world that inexplicably became real" theory. The later is easier to explain, as the world of Elder Tale has magic to allow the apocalypse to happen, whereas a game becoming real is a lot harder to explain.

See? By your own words adventurers got transported into parralel world. They are allien objects created by players and game mechanics so not part of world itself.

Reason why adventurer system was created remain same: It's standard mechanics for on-line games.

[Keroko]

Created by the players how, exactly? The players themselves don't have magic. Any magic that created the adventurer system in the Elder Tale world must have come from Elder Tale, not earth.

[Tenzen12]

They instaled Elder Tales. Picked Genre, picked race,picked class, picked subclass, picked appearence and clicked on OK button. Oleee! Adventurer is created!

Their magic originate from Elder Tale game not Elder Tale world.

[J4n1]

My take: It is a parallel world that just happens to resemble an MMO down to it's physical laws.
and elder Tales was somehow (probably by accident, possibly causing, or caused by, a world fracture (you'll learn what soon)), tapping into it.
The adventurers are players, and always were, but because of the limits of computer interface, they could not truly perceive the world around them as anything but a game.

I'm probably wrong though.

[Tenzen12]

I disagree!

With that "I'm probably wrong" part

[darksassin]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

There is plenty of subclasses for character disposal. Considering there is even maid, such ones as farmer or miner seems to be obvious. I didn't look on wikia regarding of that as I am not sure whether you consider it spoilerish (it should be quite general knowledge), but I guess it should be quite easily provable metter.

In regards of episodic anime discussion, that is spoilerish since "anime watcher" that havent read any other source wont have the "general knowledge" So according to anime source only, we do not know if Adventurers can farm or mine metals.

In fact, I dont really think this kind of discussion should be made in this thread (since there is an "anime speculation and theories" thread that is horribly underused) but since everyone discuss it here it cant be helped

[LystAP]

Originally Posted by darksassin

In regards of episodic anime discussion, that is spoilerish since "anime watcher" that havent read any other source wont have the "general knowledge" So according to anime source only, we do not know if Adventurers can farm or mine metals.

In fact, I dont really think this kind of discussion should be made in this thread (since there is an "anime speculation and theories" thread that is horribly underused) but since everyone discuss it here it cant be helped

A lot of the talk here was breaching a fair amount of spoilers, even though unintentionally at first. Overall however, Mamare hasn't even touched on the parallel worlds thing yet, choosing to focus on the world as it is.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

They instaled Elder Tales. Picked Genre, picked race,picked class, picked subclass, picked appearence and clicked on OK button. Oleee! Adventurer is created!

Their magic originate from Elder Tale game not Elder Tale world.

So then how did the adventuring system come to existence in the Elder Tale world? Moreover, why did it come into existence in the Elder Tale world?

The players weren't from the world with magic. That bit would have originated from the Elder Tale world. It's far more likely that the parallel world of Elder Tale leaked into earth in the form of a game (because Elder Tale is a magical world and could magic this), then that a normal game from a non-magical world somehow created a parallel world.

[Tenzen12]

How did adventurer system came to existence? Transfered by same way as players. We don't know how it happaned but players are here that can't be denied. If characters could be transported so could be class system.

You have to realise Elder Tale game work as interface between real world and Elder Tale world. People created game and it's mechanics. Even if you were right that magic of EDW caused transfer it doesn't change thing about that fact.

So there is actualy three elements merged together not just two as you think.
-Real world players
-Game mechanics (which is where is adventurer system is from)
-Elder Tale world.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Ickarium

My current theory is based on the translation of "Novasphere" as "Noosphere", which I'm told is possible with the Japanese. I've mentioned this somewhere before.

IE, the Elder Tale they're in is a construct of the mind. It is a new world, but it's not just a new world. It was created by the mental energy of all the players over time, and hit critical mass at some point and became its own dimension and people got sucked in. Or such.

Look up Noosphere on wikipedia.

It's not a "possibility", it is.
The title of the expansion is Homesteading the Noosphere.

There's no ifs buts, etc.
ノウアスフィアの開墾 is exactly, letter by letter, the Japanese translation of the above essay. And it's also the name of this expansion in Log Horizon.
Not to mention it's even spelled out in the manga in English. There's no room for debate there.

Crunchyroll has made NUMEROUS translation mistakes, and I've brought that up in the thread over at Crunchyroll, but apparently some knuckleheads who post on that forum are some kind of blind worshippers of translators at CR and doesn't think they can be wrong. Even though it contradicts what the AUTHOR said. *sigh*

[darksassin]

Originally Posted by LystAP

A lot of the talk here was breaching a fair amount of spoilers, even though unintentionally at first. Overall however, Mamare hasn't even touched on the parallel worlds thing yet, choosing to focus on the world as it is.

Yeah, the Author havent even start to reveal what Elder Tale World really is, whether it is a parallel world or not.

Originally Posted by Keroko

So then how did the adventuring system come to existence in the Elder Tale world? Moreover, why did it come into existence in the Elder Tale world?

The players weren't from the world with magic. That bit would have originated from the Elder Tale world. It's far more likely that the parallel world of Elder Tale leaked into earth in the form of a game (because Elder Tale is a magical world and could magic this), then that a normal game from a non-magical world somehow created a parallel world.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

How did adventurer system came to existence? Transfered by same way as players. We don't know how it happaned but players are here that can't be denied. If characters could be transported so could be class system.

You have to realise Elder Tale game work as interface between real world and Elder Tale world. People created game and it's mechanics. Even if you were right that magic of EDW caused transfer it doesn't change thing about that fact.

So there is actualy three elements merged together not just two as you think.
-Real world players
-Game mechanics (which is where is adventurer system is from)
-Elder Tale world.

Fascinating. I almost want to join the discussion but the thing is, both of you, that all the things you both were saying are SPECULATIONS, not facts. No where in the anime(or even the source novels I think) state how and why the Adventurers in this Elder Tale world or What Elder Tale (both the world and the game)really is. So please do not treat your speculation as facts

edit: I think thats spoilerish Aohige

[FRS]

Another nice episode for me, it gaved us some fanservice (even if in regards to current standard it was pretty tame), some good humour (poor Michitaka and the running gag with Dark Shiroe) and a nice share of poltics.

I also liked the little details: like the Shiroe doodle on the ballon or Minori notepad that show how much she is crushing on Shiroe eh.

[GundamFan]

Originally Posted by darksassin

In regards of episodic anime discussion, that is spoilerish since "anime watcher" that havent read any other source wont have the "general knowledge" So according to anime source only, we do not know if Adventurers can farm or mine metals.

Actually no outside information would be required to come to the conclusion that they could probably farm or mine minerals. Now it was a smaller details you might miss since it was regards to Serara subclass which depending on the translation it's either maid or housekeeper but it was mentioned in either episode 3 or 4. Which that combined with Nyanta chef subclass would indicate most activities could be done by players if they wanted to role play as such since mundane task such as cooking and cleaning could be.