Log Horizon - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Kafriel]

About the merch guilds that rounded up a few million gold for Shiroe: it was very well spent, because thanks to Shiroe's comment about how anything can be hand-made, they kickstarted an industrial revolution (thus making...well, definitely a lot of money in the long run).

This gets me thinking though, if you can make anything you want, can players create new classes/subclasses, weapons, accessories or slots to equip them in? That would provide an enormous boost to their stats as well as versatility to a limited skill kit.

About the PotL: they're the natives, so they know the world much better than the players who just dived in a new expansion, but they are mortal...this will be quite tough for them.

About the economy: giving meaning to life is a great goal, but the game is too cheap to live by, so they're making taxes and all kinds of pricey stuff (like the food stall items being 5 times more expensive than regular food). Thus, people will be able to buy houses and expand...which brings me back to the people of the land. With all the new creations, they lost their customers and if all of the players buy a piece of land, where will the PotL live?

[Netto Azure]

I was quite surprised by this development. It seems there is quite a huge implication of history and lore with the fact that NPC's are sentient.

It could be that this is one of those fantasy novels and such where sufficiently powerful magic summoned them?

[hamazura]

red hair berserker guy, what a tsundere

[Kamui04]

Originally Posted by Netto Azure

I was quite surprised by this development. It seems there is quite a huge implication of history and lore with the fact that NPC's are sentient.

It could be that this is one of those fantasy novels and such where sufficiently powerful magic summoned them?

If you go by the multiverse theory. It could be possible like you said there's a real world with exactly the nature/physic laws as ET and the same history and setting. Where real magic ended up summoning the adventurers into this other world...

[Netto Azure]

Originally Posted by Kamui04

If you go by the multiverse theory. It could be possible like you said there's a real world with exactly the nature/physic laws as ET and the same history and setting. Where real magic ended up summoning the adventurers into this other world...

Very interesting. And the fact that they are introducing technology that will be quite steampunk themed reinforced by magic...Its quite possible to recreate a semblance of modern society within this world.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

About the economy: giving meaning to life is a great goal, but the game is too cheap to live by, so they're making taxes and all kinds of pricey stuff (like the food stall items being 5 times more expensive than regular food). Thus, people will be able to buy houses and expand...which brings me back to the people of the land. With all the new creations, they lost their customers and if all of the players buy a piece of land, where will the PotL live?

There's only 30,000 players total in the Yamato server.
The land of Yamato is 1/4 the size of real life Japan.

Running out of land isn't going to happen, the world is HUGE.
Not to mention there's far more Landers than there are Adventurers in the land.

Also, rise in consumer demands doesn't take away Landers' customers, in fact, it increases their profit. Adventurers spending and creating benefits the Landers economy greatly, as more materials are in demand, and the Landers are the providers of them.

Originally Posted by Netto Azure

Very interesting. And the fact that they are introducing technology that will be quite steampunk themed reinforced by magic...Its quite possible to recreate a semblance of modern society within this world.

One of the lines cut from this episode, was Roderick or Charasin (I forgot which) explaining in the Round Table meeting that while TV may be out of reach, something as simple as radio may be possible to simulate. The possibilities are near limitless!

If they can find magnets, either as items or material, they can likely create crude coil batteries.
Source of power could be anything, they may even have a lightning based summon to work as power source, much like how Salamander was used for steam engine.
If they can level the voltage by creating a crude capacitor... even electric power isn't really out of their reach.

[whitecloud]

so basically we will have a primitive magitech society

[Ickarium]

I would guess something like Eberron from D&D, just without the huge gold cost, as that's a balance thing.

So yeah. Bound fire salamanders to turn wheels to create electricity at the least, possibly. If there are lightning elementals, they could probably power directly (depending on whether it hurts the creature and the people care...) Your freezer might have a tiny ice elemental in it, maybe.

Lots of fun stuff with magic.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by whitecloud

so basically we will have a primitive magitech society

They are only stuck for more than 2 months right?

then there will be massive improvement from now on. Indeed. It will be primitive magitech development but as the development continues. More advancement will be made and it won't be no longer primitive. The adventurers come from modern era. They had lots of knowledge they can exploit. Specially the adults and ET is a subscription based game. There are only few young players and mostly are in college or having profession as players.

[Quol]

This episode was great as always. I liked the speech soujiro did and how all the girls reacted to it. Also the way Issac cleaned the house and walked away in such a cool manner was funny.

Though watching this episode i started wondering, if there really was a war between landers and adventurers, who would win? (assuming they would fight to their last man) Landers have far greater numbers and without landers the economy of adventurers would collapse. Of course adventurers have greater education and respawn immortality.

[The Green One]

The great thing about inventing now is they don't have the hardship of trying to conceptualize something from scratch. They have at least a basic idea of what to work towards to recover more modern conveniences which undoubtedly speeds up the production process.

[Nvis]

I see a dog in the preview.

Log Horizon's new Guild Hall should have a pet(Guard) dog! Unless Nyanta-san doesn't like dogs....

[monir]

Originally Posted by orpheus2

Since you can't die, I am guessing you'll be ignored to the point of non-existence with the guild and bank off limits until you're out of town like Hamelin or torture.

That raises a follow up question: how do you ignore someone who is powerful?

I'm not trying to get into the spoiler territory here, but I just had to wonder at what exactly would be the incentive for someone not to break those no-no Shiroe just laid down. Fear of death is taken out.... so what else?

This show is portraying very nicely the typical human bagage (behavior) even though they are in such an unusual predicament. Now they will need to figure out some form of punishment so the temptation to harm/inconvenience others stay low for certain category of people.

[The Green One]

Those locked out of the guild building would be unable to get at their stored items in the bank. The only way they could was to move out of Akihabara completely and go to another city and use the bank there. Which would significantly cripple an adventurer as they wouldn't have access to their stored items or banked money. If they pissed off the round table enough by their disregard for the rules the combat guilds might be sent to hunt them leading to the risk of losing any items still kept on hand.

[Kokukirin]

Originally Posted by Quol

This episode was great as always. I liked the speech soujiro did and how all the girls reacted to it. Also the way Issac cleaned the house and walked away in such a cool manner was funny.

Though watching this episode i started wondering, if there really was a war between landers and adventurers, who would win? (assuming they would fight to their last man) Landers have far greater numbers and without landers the economy of adventurers would collapse. Of course adventurers have greater education and respawn immortality.

By force Adventurers will certainly win. The Brigandia guild alone managed to occupy Susukino and no Landers could resist their rule. The economy will certainly suffer, but because they only need very little to live, the Adventurers can easily gather enough to self sustain. At worst they are set back to the state we see in episode 1.

But surely this story cannot move to that direction. There is little to gain for Adventurers to go to war with Landers. The Landers are too weak to really start a war against Adventurers. They will be forced to work out how to co-exist in this world and that should be a very achievable goal for both sides.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by monir

That raises a follow up question: how do you ignore someone who is powerful?

I'm not trying to get into the spoiler territory here, but I just had to wonder at what exactly would be the incentive for someone not to break those no-no Shiroe just laid down. Fear of death is taken out.... so what else?

This show is portraying very nicely the typical human bagage (behavior) even though they are in such an unusual predicament. Now they will need to figure out some form of punishment so the temptation to harm/inconvenience others stay low for certain category of people.

Shiroe already presented what is possible with control of a service building.
They only need to apply that further.

This game is designed so the more powerful you are, the higher the cost of maintenance.
If one loses access to the bank, marketplace, blacksmith, fletcher, and all other amenities, it would be very hard to continue to live in Akiba. They're basically counting on that most people will simply remove themselves from Akiba rather than stubbornly stick around.

[monir]

Originally Posted by aohige

Shiroe already presented what is possible with control of a service building.
They only need to apply that further.

This game is designed so the more powerful you are, the higher the cost of maintenance.
If one loses access to the bank, marketplace, blacksmith, fletcher, and all other amenities, it would be very hard to continue to live in Akiba. They're basically counting on that most people will simply remove themselves from Akiba rather than stubbornly stick around.

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks!!!!

In fact, yes, it can work against any one who wants to be in Akiba as a deterrent to do bad.

On an entirely different and very, very off-topic note (also not to start anything...) but the protagonist for SAO appears to be a complete douche compared to Shiroe.

[FRS]

Let's be charitable and say that SAO work on differents themes than Log Horizon

[Netto Azure]

Originally Posted by monir

On an entirely different and very, very off-topic note (also not to start anything...) but the protagonist for SAO appears to be a complete douche compared to Shiroe.

I'm guessing it's a difference in writing style and viewpoints of MMO's.

Mamare focuses on the team/guild building aspect while at the same time likes to talk about economics and politics, while Reki on the other hand is more of a solo viewpoint in writing and a bit more introspective.

Still each has their own pro's and cons.

[Alf]

Well, the two works are dealing with different problems, and they're enjoyable in different ways.

SAO was dealing with the will to struggle against despair. The setup is to deal with things at personal scale and the limitation of personal struggle was shown well, but with a hack to overcome the most impossible obstacles. It feels more empowered to watch, and dramas and exaggerations are more flexable to use in works of this scale.

LH is on the other hand is trying to overcome the problem of everyone's struggle, which is impossible to dealt with at personal scale. So it's dealt with on social, economical, and political scale. Things of such scale would feel more noble and more sense of accomplishment, but things don't evolve so quickly and take some patience to wait for things to setup, and wouldn't be as dramatic. The story is much like Shiroe himself.