Macross Delta - Episode 7 Discussion / Poll

[charles883]

I think that those dimension weapon spec provided by third party and I think there possible that third party gives incomplete spec and lied to Windemere which cause accidental explosion makes by windermere

[Tak]

Originally Posted by charles883

I think that those dimension weapon spec provided by third party and I think there possible that third party gives incomplete spec and lied to Windemere which cause accidental explosion makes by windermere

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that Wind wanted to use against the NUNs despite knowing member states shouldn't be flinging that stuff against one another.

And they chose to pull the trigger. Can't blame anyone but themselves.

Unless they give me a teary-eyed explanation, I ain't sympathizing.

- Tak

[DragoonKain3]

I just don't get it. Windermere (possibly by mistake) used dimensional weapons on themselves... and they still won their independence war? That makes no sense at all. Something is REAL fishy here. >_>

And Roid, how I love you. Even the leader of Vodor is questioning if he really believes they are the heir to protoculture, and he just evades the question. In fact, it's the ONLY question he evades. "The key to that answer lies in the ruins"... c'mon Roid, he's asking what do you believe, not if you're looking for proof for your beliefs.

As for our heroes, well, can't be a Macross series unless they get captured by the enemy at some point right? I'm actually surprised Mikumo of all people doesn't get found out, considering she's singing and all. But I guess the main triangle doesn't involve her, so plot dictates that it must be trio that gets captured. XD

As for the singing, nah, I'm not feeling Touyama and Nishida's duet. Mikumo's solo was absolutely mesmerizing though... dammit, why couldn't THAT have been this episodes featured song of the week.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

I just don't get it. Windermere (possibly by mistake) used dimensional weapons on themselves... and they still won their independence war? That makes no sense at all. Something is REAL fishy here. >_>

Don't forget they also managed to erect a dimension field around the planet.

They didn't necessarily 'win' the Independence War, but rather, they were, IMO, ignored by the NUN after what they've done to themselves and brought their planet to gradual ruin. At that point, there is really nothing much to do about it, is there?

- Tak

[xeviouses]

After Wind blew themselves up, its pretty easy imagining NUN going 'welp, they got bigger problems now.'

Still I see their independence being given by NUN out of sympathy for the whole thing. Mainly just to stop the Wind Higher-ups from endangering civilians.

[azarhal]

After the sub, Gramia doesn't act like someone who think his side blow up that hole, but Roid doesn't deny the accusation and Mirage seems pretty sure Windermere did it too (somewhat interesting, a few episodes back she acted like it was a rumor).

Roid is getting super suspicious now too, he's clearly after something else then "revenge".

[Darthtabby]

With the historical parallels people have been noting between Windermere and imperialist Japan I think there's a good chance that the dimensional weapon actually was a Windermerean one, but as of yet I haven't seen any sure fire confirmation that such was the case. I don't exactly consider Roid not raising an objection when the Voldar leader implies that such was the case to be proof positive in that regard. Roid seems like the type who'd be aware of the NUNS version of the story and chill enough not to argue the point.

Also I strongly suspect that a lot of the Aerial Knights whole heartedly believe their government's claim that the dimensional weapon belonged to the NUNS (most of them would have been pretty young at the time after all). It would explain why they're so vengeance driven.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Roid that is pretty arrogant in proclaiming Brisingr cluster inhabitants are the true inheritors of the Protoculture. As if Earthers, Zentradi and Zolans don't count as they weren't from there.

FYI the Rax ruin AI recognized Mylene a hybrid as heir to Protoculture's legacy. What is she? Both an Earther and Zentradi. It would also apply to Michael Blanc who is also a hybrid of Zolan descent. Ranka too.

Originally Posted by azarhal

After the sub, Gramia doesn't act like someone who think his side blow up that hole, but Roid doesn't deny the accusation

Gramia's a senile manchild who never grew up. It can't be my fault it somebody else fault. Even his bastard son is calling bullshit on that.

[Key Board]

Either NUNs was responsible for the super dimensional weapon or Windaria is

Someone is lying, but I'm not sure who is yet

also I wonder if they're going 5th element with Mikumo. She's clearly not a normal human. or even human?

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Key Board

Either NUNs was responsible for the super dimensional weapon or Windaria is

Someone is lying, but I'm not sure who is yet

also I wonder if they're going 5th element with Mikumo. She's clearly not a normal human. or even human?

Windermere did it given Keith and Roid's reactions on it. Gramia is a madman.

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Roid that is pretty arrogant in proclaiming Brisingr cluster inhabitants are the true inheritors of the Protoculture. As if Earthers, Zentradi and Zolans don't count as they weren't from there.

FYI the Rax ruin AI recognized Mylene a hybrid as heir to Protoculture's legacy. What is she? Both an Earther and Zentradi. It would also apply to Michael Blanc who is also a hybrid of Zolan descent. Ranka too.

Do we have a firm idea of when the Rax ruin AI was created, relative to the last throes of Protoculture civilization messing with life in the Brisingr cluster? It's not strange for a civilization/government to change its direction, beliefs or goals over time. The simple 'we were the last made, so we're the best' stance is obviously flawed, but if the special chemicals in the water and apples are a 'naturally occurring' found phenomenon rather than something the Windermere and Voldorans have done, then it might indicate that the entire star cluster is a giant terraforming/bioengineering experiment in mass producing the tools to control Protoculture-uplifted sapient life. From that perspective Roid's contention might have some teeth in the sense that, "Life in the Brisingr cluster was engineered to control the legacy the Protoculture." The likelihood that they were engineered to be tools rather than rulers is probably something he dismisses out of arrogance.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Alhazred

Do we have a firm idea of when the Rax ruin AI was created, relative to the last throes of Protoculture civilization messing with life in the Brisingr cluster? It's not strange for a civilization/government to change its direction, beliefs or goals over time. The simple 'we were the last made, so we're the best' stance is obviously flawed, but if the special chemicals in the water and apples are a 'naturally occurring' found phenomenon rather than something the Windermere and Voldorans have done, then it might indicate that the entire star cluster is a giant terraforming/bioengineering experiment in mass producing the tools to control Protoculture-uplifted sapient life. From that perspective Roid's contention might have some teeth in the sense that, "Life in the Brisingr cluster was engineered to control the legacy the Protoculture." The likelihood that they were engineered to be tools rather than rulers is probably something he dismisses out of arrogance.

Doesn't matter the Protoculture's entire fold comm network broke down along with the chain of command leaving the Zentradi without central command.

Those that created the Rax AI 500,000 years ago are certainly different in belief compared to those that left the Bird Human on Earth 10,000 years ago.

Note the Bird Human according to Macross Chronicle was created during the Protoculture's golden age. Likely a bio weapon of a faction of the Protoculture like the Evil Series which were taken over by the Protodevlin.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Note the Bird Human according to Macross Chronicle was created during the Protoculture's golden age. Likely a bio weapon of a faction of the Protoculture like the Evil Series which were taken over by the Protodevlin.

Just really quick for those who don't know, EVIL series was an attempt by Protoculture to replace the thousand fleet Zentradi with biological humanoid weapons capable of directly interacting & weaponizing Super Dimension Space.

Think Super Saiyajin, and you get the idea

This of course, didn't turn out too well and invited the attention of Protodevlins.

- Tak

[Roger Rambo]

That exchange between Roid and the voldoran leader was pretty interesting. Particularly how cat daddy seemed to dwell on Windemere life expectancy only being 30 years before agreeing to go along with them for the time being. An assertion the Windemere might lose simply as a matter of being more vulnerable to entropy? A rather biting one considering that the wizened old Voldoran leader might very well outlive Roid.

Though it's really something to hear the Windmere get on a high horse about the NUNS using technology and trade to compel people to join while they're going around with mass mind control. How long do they plan to keep that up anyway? Is the idea to keep all these soldiers around as permenantly enslaved jannisaries so Windemere doesn't have to dirty their hands doing garrison on occupied planets? For just liberators, they sure don't seem to give two shits about anybody not from their planet. Though that's the kind of an attitude you need to take to go and indiscriminately export Var Syndrome infected produce as a first strike weapon.

It's a good thing we have Freyja around to remind us that not all the Windemere are colossal dicks. At least that's one reason not to go jump aboard the "Remove Mayfly!" train. So of coooourse you know what the valiant Wind Knights gotta go and remind us that they mentored under Ser Meryn Trant in at the school of threatening unarmed girls.

Spoiler for Muh Chivalry!:

Originally Posted by Key Board

Either NUNs was responsible for the super dimensional weapon or Windaria is

Someone is lying, but I'm not sure who is yet

Well unless it was some kind of 3rd party. Which might make a bit more sense since I'm not sure either faction during the war had a vested interest in perma wrecking the planet. I *might* give the Windemere at least that much credit.

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Roid that is pretty arrogant in proclaiming Brisingr cluster inhabitants are the true inheritors of the Protoculture. As if Earthers, Zentradi and Zolans don't count as they weren't from there.

FYI the Rax ruin AI recognized Mylene a hybrid as heir to Protoculture's legacy. What is she? Both an Earther and Zentradi. It would also apply to Michael Blanc who is also a hybrid of Zolan descent. Ranka too.

I'd personally rank the Windemere implying that ALL the races of the cluster as being true inheritors of the protoculture, while treating them as tools with no say in their own destiny, is a tad more arrogant in that regard.

[Alhazred]

Hmm... so if Bogue's designated opponent in 'chivalrous combat to the death' next episode is Hayate (as Freyja's designated champion), i wonder what Mirage and the rest of the knights are going to do.

1. Stand around and watch, because that's what you do at a duel. (Mirage under great duress.)
2. Set up another one-on-one duel to see if the Zentradi are all they're cracked up to be in a fight. (Who is Mirage's 'dance partner' in this case?)
3. Set up a many-on-one duel to really see if the Zentradi are all they're cracked up to be in a fight. (Poor Mirage... )

Edit: Just idle speculation; in the tiny snippet we see in the preview Hayate could easily just have been sucker-punched, but given how eager Bogue is to get his revenge on, 'Fight to the death just because!' feels like a likely outcome.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Alhazred

Edit: Just idle speculation; in the tiny snippet we see in the preview Hayate could easily just have been sucker-punched, but given how eager Bogue is to get his revenge on, 'Fight to the death just because!' feels like a likely outcome.

And then Mikumo saves them both at the very last minute!

- Tak

[Triple_R]

Idols, magical girls, engineers, hackers, spies... Is there anything Walkure can't do?

Walkure is just indescribably cool so far. They truly stole the show this episode... except Freyja. Freyja and the pilots really didn't seem to bring a lot to the table here. Mikumo saying "you're so useless" to Freyja was harsh, but honestly, Mikumo had a point in this episode.

Don't get me wrong, catgirl!Freyja and her cat-puns were cute and she had some nice moments in the episode, but she really didn't seem to contribute much to this mission at all. In fact, she seemed to jeopardize it once or twice.

As for the rest of Walkure... man, these people are something else. That hacking sequence before the OP was beautifully animated, and made for a really fun watch. Reina and Makina make an incredibly adorable team, with such scintillating synchronicity. Kaname was smooth and generally effective in managing the operation, and Mikumo did some superb spy-work (though a case can be made that Mikumo should try to be a better team-player).


I'm increasingly getting the impression that Freyja has little idea of what she's gotten herself into. I get the impression that Freyja thought Walkure was just a conventional idol group, albeit with a healing magic twist (Var healers!). No, Walkure seems like some amazing elite paramilitary unit that do all sorts of things, idol performances being just part of it, even if the main part.

It also doesn't seem to be hitting home for Freyja that she's actively going against her own people, even if she is entirely legitimized in doing so. She doesn't seem the least bit disturbed or troubled about any of this. In fact, it barely seems to register for her!

I still like Freyja a lot, but she badly needs a wake-up call. I honestly hope the Windermere pilots really lay it on her (verbally speaking), just so this all gets through to her.


On the whole, a very fun and enjoyable Episode 7. Windereme's leadership does look awfully bad at the moment, but whatever. If Macross makes them like conventional comic book supervillains, than so be it. If Macross makes them more sympathetic later on, fine. Just give me more Walkure, and more MakiRein fun times!

[charles883]

Why I get the feeling the Bogue is the first one defected to Chaos?

I think Frejya will have big character development there as I think she become leader of revolution against Windemere royal family and nobel as I think there level headed Windermere who don't agree with Kings way

[sikvod00]

Triple R, I really can't disagree with your assessment of Freyja in this episode. Mikumo has been unusually harsh towards her, but I wonder if there's more to it than simply trying to knock some sense into the happy-go-lucky rookie. And I actually think Mikumo is more intimidating than Meeser. At least he isn't smiling while calling you "useless".

[Benigmatica]

Windermereans involved in Protoculture, huh? Not only that, but they're the rightful heirs despite the Protoculture manipulated genes of sentient beings across galaxies and sometimes provide music for Lynn Minmay to sing.

On the other hand, using dimensional weapons to gain their independence and blame the New United Nations for it was utterly wrong! I mean, the Windermereans' misuse of those dimensional weapons have caused their lifespan to dwindle to just 30 years (if proven).