(GW) Zero System. Prove of two part system

[EpyonEmerald]

Wow did you grow up rich? If you think that was a personal attack I wish I had your life, But not really. I am stating you are a newbie not to these fourms but to Gundam Wing itself, you claim your posts speak for themselfs yet I quoted you wrong on many subjects proving I was right by actual episodes. Ironic that someone knows more about you then GW? Maybe,

[Komataguri]

I believe the sheer fact that the idiot can not even properly spell a characters name is enough to decredit his entire argument.

[EpyonEmerald]

"I believe the sheer fact that the idiot can not even properly spell a characters name is enough to decredit his entire argument."

Then don't pay any heed to the facts that I have given, and if you believe spelling names a different way then the offical release makes me an idiot you clearly have not been around the anmie/gundam world for a long long time, Katra was the way we spelled it before they offically subbed it. That is the way I choose to spell it,

As for the facts which I stated, they are not building on any argument they are proving facts that I pointed out. Learn the difference. :fingers:

[Komataguri]

Originally Posted by EpyonEmerald

if you believe spelling names a different way then the offical release makes me an idiot

Yes, I do. Since you, yourself, just now, said it was the official spelling... Yet you continue to to use your retard baby spelling.

Thusly, You are here by labled an idiot and ignored.

GOOD DAY.

[eMpTy265]

Originally Posted by EpyonEmerald

<snip> and if you believe spelling names a different way then the offical release makes me an idiot you clearly have not been around the anmie/gundam world for a long long time...

Originally Posted by Komataguri

Yes, I do. Since you, yourself, just now, said it was the official spelling... Yet you continue to to use your retard baby spelling.

Thusly, You are here by labled an idiot and ignored.

GOOD DAY.

whoa... heated argument going on here... [brings heatshield]

Komataguri, I think EpyonEmerald was trying to say something along the lines of "if you believe spelling names in a different way from the official release makes..."

I suppose you prefer official names, but give him a break.
(I mean even in SeeD, some people prefer Asuran over Athrun right?)



Now regarding the Zero, I am not going to claim being knowledgable or anything... but if the Zero is able to potentially drive the pilot insane, then it must have a form of 'active feedback'. (Whether it be verbal instruction, psy waves, weird gasses etc.)
[I call it active feedback for convenience's sake]

Granted, you could modify sandrock with active feedback (hence the screen), but if the OS wasn't modified in accordance, it'd be pretty hard to see the full potential.

Bottomline, if any other gundam were to have Zero 'installed' without feedback, then it SHOULD result in a less than 100% efficiency. Now what would happen if you custom tailored a gundam specifically for Zero, who knows?


Now can anyone prove Zero's efficiency independent of hardware? I think the only person would be the story's producer / tech designer.

Take note that only Heero and Zechs (Milliardo Peacecraft? [No, I can't spell his name properly, call me an idiot if you wish...]) can utilize the Zero system to its full potential.
(It is arguable for Zech's case... but oh well.)

So unless you have 2 Heero's or two Zech's, you can't really tell which one works better.
Oh, and I believe the Zero system interacts with the pilot's mentality as well, so you'd need a controlled experiment.


In brief, it's hard to tell whether the systems were operating at 100% possible potential, even if you assume 100% is attainable. Disagree with me if you wish, but unless you've talked to the director and confirmed EVERYTHING, your guess may only be slightly better than any other.

(Awaits flame)

P.S. I enjoyed your flame war, keep it up

[EpyonEmerald]

"Now can anyone prove Zero's efficiency independent of hardware? I think the only person would be the story's producer / tech designer."

The producer and tech designer have no say any more in my mind they gave all the information needed on the episodes for us to come to our own conclusions. But maybe that is my own strange idea

"Take note that only Heero and Zechs (Milliardo Peacecraft? [No, I can't spell his name properly, call me an idiot if you wish...]) can utilize the Zero system to its full potential.
(It is arguable for Zech's case... but oh well.)"

Sorry, But according to Heero (and he doesn't sugar coat) Katra (I love spelling it this way now) could handle the Zero system, not only handle it but lead a fight that was very important and beat the MDs which also had Zero installed and Dorthy with the actual hardware. The only way Katra did win in my mind is by mastering the system, lets not forget he blew up the second conolny that has ever been blown up in history (as far as Wing :P) Yes he had the beam cannon, But that doesn't give him the edge he needed, He also faught against Hero and Trowa when they were in suits that would be considered Gundam like- if not Gundam (Not sure if they were made of Gundanium but it goes to figure it may have been, however they are still made by the guys who made the Gundams, and together they were supposely better then the Gundam or thats what they reported to lady un, But wait didnt they also give her a cannon that only worked once? I still think that these two MS together were as good as a reguler Gundam, and think about all the skill Heero has? In Endless Watlz he takes on Wufei in a reguler Moble Doll and lives to tell about it, if Katra did not master the Zero system I don't know how you can, As a fighter he was never very good he was a planner, while Wing Zero is more of a fighter) YES, its true there are no facts around this, no one actually says, Katra mastered the suit, the only thing said was that he was the only hope and thats pretty damn good coming from Heero,

"So unless you have 2 Heero's or two Zech's, you can't really tell which one works better.
Oh, and I believe the Zero system interacts with the pilot's mentality as well, so you'd need a controlled experiment"

If you read my above links the Zero system effects a chemical in your brain that was once believed to make mothers able to lift cars off of their children even when it broke their muscles ect, the chemical they mentioned in the brain was what they USED to think made that happen, but we have learned different. We never did see needles connected to the pilots but we did here strange sounds and lights that were seen in every cockpit that had zero hardware installed, Go and watch the Wing Zero and Dorthy's cockpit. You will see what I am talking about, However we did not see this in the Epyon because the Epyon was built differently and had a mask.

[eMpTy265]

If you're just planning to argue about Quatre being damn good with using Zero's system, then we have nothing to argue about since I agree with that fact.

What I'm trying to say is that it is questionable whether Quatre and Sandrock are able to push Zero to its 100% potential.

(Under the assumption that Heero+Wing Zero is the example of 100%)

[QUOTE=EpyonEmerald
The producer and tech designer have no say any more in my mind they gave all the information needed on the episodes for us to come to our own conclusions. But maybe that is my own strange idea
[/quote]

That is assuming that they provided EVERYTHING, anything that's missing is up to interpretation. Just like any <pilot in suit A> vs. <pilot in suit B>, hypothesis.

Originally Posted by EpyonEmerald

Sorry, But according to Heero (and he doesn't sugar coat) Katra (I love spelling it this way now) could handle the Zero system, not only handle it but lead a fight that was very important and beat the MDs which also had Zero installed and Dorthy with the actual hardware. The only way Katra did win in my mind is by mastering the system, lets not forget he blew up the second conolny that has ever been blown up in history (as far as Wing :P) Yes he had the beam cannon, But that doesn't give him the edge he needed,

Re: the Colony

- The colony was blown up because of the weapon's power, not neccesarily because of the pilot's mastery of the system. Maybe I missed something, but I didn't see any special Gundam fighting against Zero when Quatre trashed the colony.

Re: Quatre vs. Dorothy
- Heero told Quatre to use Zero on sandrock because he knew that Epyon was going to keep Heero occupied. Given the fact that neither Duo, Wufei, nor Trowa had used Zero's system before, Quatre was the only choice.

- Quatre > Dorothy, that is true (at least I believe), but does it imply that he's already mastered Zero. Also you could tell by Quatre was straining to control the system, whereas Heero isn't effected to such a great extent.

- Furthermore, Quatre's using Zero to assist in the strategic planning of their battle, while Heero is using is in MS combat against Epyon. Although I'm no authority, but I believe the stress level in Heero's situation is greater than Quatre.

Originally Posted by EpyonEmerald

"
He also faught against Hero and Trowa when they were in suits that would be considered Gundam like- if not Gundam (Not sure if they were made of Gundanium but it goes to figure it may have been, however they are still made by the guys who made the Gundams, and together they were supposely better then the Gundam or thats what they reported to lady un, But wait didnt they also give her a cannon that only worked once? I still think that these two MS together were as good as a reguler Gundam, and think about all the skill Heero has? In Endless Watlz he takes on Wufei in a reguler Moble Doll and lives to tell about it, if Katra did not master the Zero system I don't know how you can, As a fighter he was never very good he was a planner, while Wing Zero is more of a fighter) YES, its true there are no facts around this, no one actually says, Katra mastered the suit, the only thing said was that he was the only hope and thats pretty damn good coming from Heero,

- Mercurius & Vayette vs. Zero: I personally believe that Trowa and Heero weren't going all out, until the end when Heero believes Quatre to be beyond redemption. At that time Zero already had the advantage.

- Quatre (MS doll) vs. Wufei (Nataku custom): I don't remember this scene... maybe I'll rewatch the OVA is I have time. Were you talking about Heero?

EDIT: OK... reread, you mean Heero vs. Wufei...hard to pick things out when you're using one long paragraph.

If it was, I always considered Heero to be a good pilot, even though the fact that he survived that time was a fluke. (Trowa shooting @ Duo, causing a disturbance.)


In short, if Heero is considered to have 'mastered' the Zero system, then Quatre only comes close, but he and Sandrock have not pushed the limits of Zero's system yet.

Can Heero plan the battle better than Quatre? maybe, maybe not. But can Heero beat Quatre if both pilots were using, say a Zaku ()with Zero? I'd put my bet on Heero anyday.

Originally Posted by EpyonEmerald

If you read my above links the Zero system effects a chemical in your brain that was once believed to make mothers able to lift cars off of their children even when it broke their muscles ect, the chemical they mentioned in the brain was what they USED to think made that happen, but we have learned different. We never did see needles connected to the pilots but we did here strange sounds and lights that were seen in every cockpit that had zero hardware installed, Go and watch the Wing Zero and Dorthy's cockpit. You will see what I am talking about, However we did not see this in the Epyon because the Epyon was built differently and had a mask.

I read that part, but I also believe there is more to Zero than that.

If what the chemical does is release the absolute 100% potential in humans, then it only implies that the difference between 'strong' and 'weak' pilots should be more noticable.

For example, you take a 5 year old and release their 100% potential, and you compare it to a weight-lifting champion. Using the chemical that you mentioned the child may be able to life 500kg (say), but I suspect that the weigh-lifter may be able to life more than 5 tons.


Relating back to GW, if Quatre and Heero are both exposed to Zero's induction, they will be able to perform differently. (I suspect Heero's 100% is greater than Quattre's 100%, but that's just my GUESS)

Thus, unless you have the same pilot in both suits, you can't tell whether Sandrock+Zero-system or WingZero+Zero-system is better.


I recall that Zero functions by calculating all the possibilities of future events, and then relaying the most likely situations to the pilot.

The pilot then exercises the judgement for the received information.

Heero, who I consider a better pilot, would thus be able to react to the information in a more effective manner.

*********************************
N E WayZ... I'm going to stop here, since if I want to say more I'll be inclined to rewatch GW.

(back to studying *SIGH)

[EpyonEmerald]

Finally I meet a match, the guys above didn't know what they were talking about, they could debate but debats - information = waste of time. It goes without saying that anything I don't question I agree with, Thus you proved me wrong a lot in your prior post. The only thing I want to talk now about is this


"Sandrock+Zero-system or WingZero+Zero-system"

I believe Sandrock did not have the hardware part of the Zero System, again I believe in a two part system. I want you to go or think back to everytime where there was the Zero system on a ship or even in a base controlling MDs, Everytime before Sandrock and before the Vay 8 and Mercius we ALWAYS saw a strange glowing light with strange sounds, No we never saw the cockpit engines of the Vay 8 And Mercius so who knows about those two, However Katra never had that glowing light or sound in the Sandrock, and it showed them loading disks into the cockpit, The cockpit that dorthy used, and the cockpit in the Zero Wing were almost exactly the same and they were NOT in ANY other gundam/MB that we actually saw, So this leads me to believe that Sandrock was running on the planning part of Zero, and not using Zeros other impressive uses, IE .0333 respone time (GW Mag), and a few others that i cant think of now.

[Mr_Paper]

Look people, try to keep it on topic - the discussion about the Zero System.

Whether he spells the name the way you like or not, the only important factor is that you understand who he is refering to. Everything after that is just trivial.