[Manga] The curse seal sucks pretty much

[Stickels]

they're ninja's, they don't have "power levels" The man who wins is the stronger, and better ninja.

you could say zabuza is a skilled as kakashi (which I don't care what the book said, we all saw that to not be true) you could say he is as smart as kakashi, again something I doubt, you could say he is physically as strong, which I doubt amounts to much in the ninja world, you could say he is as fast.

The fact is there are to many things involved to just throw out something saying that zabuza is "as strong as" kakashi. He's a worse ninja, as we all saw, and not just because of the sharingan, because we all saw him lose even when he had the advantage of fighting in conditions of his choosing.

[raikage]

Originally Posted by Stickels

they're ninja's, they don't have "power levels" The man who wins is the stronger, and better ninja.

you could say zabuza is a skilled as kakashi (which I don't care what the book said, we all saw that to not be true) you could say he is as smart as kakashi, again something I doubt, you could say he is physically as strong, which I doubt amounts to much in the ninja world, you could say he is as fast.

The fact is there are to many things involved to just throw out something saying that zabuza is "as strong as" kakashi. He's a worse ninja, as we all saw, and not just because of the sharingan, because we all saw him lose even when he had the advantage of fighting in conditions of his choosing.

This statement is not ENTIRELY accurate. It's true that Kakashi beat Zabuza in round 1, but ONLY thanks to the help of Naruto & Sasuke who freed him from the Water Prison. It's also true that Kakashi beat Zabuza w/o the assistance of Naruto & co. in round 2, but he had a pretty big gash in his chest. Even though he SAID it was so that the ninja dogs could track the scent of Kakashi's blood, I doubt that was exactly the case. Kakashi got tagged twice; once in the hand and the other across the chest. Kakashi MAY have had the dogs in mind for the hand cut, but the chest is far too vital an area to intentionally sacrifice. So, Zabuza, while still losing, is better than people seem to give him credit for.

Among battles with those of equal strength, skill decides the victor. Zabuza got outsmarted, plain and simple. His only strategy in the 2nd fight was to exploit a particular weakness of the Sharingan, which Kakashi apparently already knew about and was prepared for. Had Kakashi not had dogs in mind for a blind fight, Zabuza would have won.

[Yellow Flash]

Originally Posted by Hunter

He took a knife blow through his hand and he was cut by the sword of Zabuza all along the thorax, I don't call that to be barely wounded.

He explained that he let Zabuza cut him to get blood on him and find him in the mist.
It wasn't a serious wound, but more like what one would use for kuchiyose.

Zabuza was no match for Kakashi.

[Magus]

Originally Posted by andyz

Kakashi is stronger than Zabuza... that's why he was able to beat him.

That logic is flawed. This isn't DBZ.

[tritoch]

I thought Kakashi intended to be cut by Zabuza so the kuchiyose nin dogs could track Zabuza by using Kakashi's blood on Zabuza's sword?

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

He explained that he let Zabuza cut him to get blood on him and find him in the mist.
It wasn't a serious wound, but more like what one would use for kuchiyose.

Zabuza was no match for Kakashi.

And then you open your eyes and start trying to think a little and you realize that :
1/Bitting your finger isn't the same kind of wound than getting badly cut through your chest and completely through your hand.
2/You don't do that at all if you have another choice to win.
3/When an opponent is no match for you you don't end up bleeding and completely exhausted unable to fight anymore for days.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Hunter

And then you open your eyes and start trying to think a little and you realize that :
1/Bitting your finger isn't the same kind of wound than getting badly cut through your chest and completely through your hand.
2/You don't do that at all if you have another choice to win.
3/When an opponent is no match for you you don't end up bleeding and completely exhausted unable to fight anymore for days.

4/And then I realize someone just revived a nearly 3 years old thread, quoted a previous post of mine that I posted nearly 3 years back which I had to read back on to refresh my memory, and then tried to win an argument against me in a thread that had its last post nearly 3 years back. So I ask myself, do I have an obsessive e-stalker who wants my attention by any means necessary and may even be in love with me, or do I have a mortal enemy who deserves to meet my spoon?

I think Hunter should flee at any direction whenever Yellow Flash flashes his/her yellow. Bless this forum for it never runs out of comedy.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by monir

So I ask myself, do I have an obsessive e-stalker who wants my attention by any means necessary and may even be in love with me, or do I have a mortal enemy who deserves to meet my spoon?

I think Hunter should flee at any direction whenever Yellow Flash flashes his/her yellow. Bless this forum for it never runs out of comedy.

See? You finally understood why Sasuke decided to flee Konoha to come to Oro

[Yellow Flash]

Originally Posted by Hunter

1/Bitting your finger isn't the same kind of wound than getting badly cut through your chest and completely through your hand.

Shinobi are used to such wounds, they are minor. You're overrecating now.

2/You don't do that at all if you have another choice to win.

Why is making your opponent think he hurt you, yet in truth he fell for the trap, such a bad move?

3/When an opponent is no match for you you don't end up bleeding and completely exhausted unable to fight anymore for days.

Let's be fair. Kakashi was exhausted because he used the Sharingan. It wasn't Zabuza's doing.

[ri0]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Let's be fair. Kakashi was exhausted because he used the Sharingan. It wasn't Zabuza's doing.

If Zabuza was no match he wouldnt have to rely on Sharingan.

[Yogi]

First, the jounin were already tired before the fight.

Second, the fight drained the sound four to the extent where they were resting in enemy territory rather than making tracks, simply because they had to use their curse seal lv. 2. Note, that they said they HAD to use it in 4 vs. 2 odds.

Therfore, the Curse Seal probably sacrifices staying power for immediate strength. You get strong enough to be probably around Jounin level or so, but you can only fight for short periods of time.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Yellow Flash

Shinobi are used to such wounds, they are minor. You're overrecating now.

Why is making your opponent think he hurt you, yet in truth he fell for the trap, such a bad move?

Let's be fair. Kakashi was exhausted because he used the Sharingan. It wasn't Zabuza's doing.

I'm not overreacting, I'm merely stating the obvious which is while being slashed by a sword through the chest isn't like a Chidori piercing your heart it's not like biting your finger either.
Making your opponent fell for a trap is good but it doesn't change anything to the wound you had to take for this. Just like Neji outsmarting Kidoumaru by allowing himself to get transpierced by his arrow at the spot he had chosen didn't change anything to the fact it got a near fatal blow.

Kakashiw as exhausted by the jutsu he had to use in order to beat his opponent so yes it was Zabuza's doing because if Zabuza had been weaker Kakashi wouldn't have had to use them to the point of exhaustion.