(L+CR) Lord El Melloi II Case Files - Anime Discussion

[XFire]

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

ORT is some vampire/DA? I'm not familiar with the concept. On that side Strange Fake does have a vampire/DA (not sure of how he ranks up) but also I think FSF is a bit noncannon there since in novels the vamp since he rejects humanity and all it's civilization can't really be easily hurt by NPs. Which I was told is not how it properly works. Thankfully we have a Andersonvampire hunter on hand.


I think her theory is more he makes the cut somewhere else. Records it, and can then deploy it from outside just by seeing Trisha in her room.

Of course this is ignoring the fact that Karabo intended to get rid of his eyes very likely as he says because he couldn't control them. So it's unlikely he had the necessary finesse for this.

Fate Strange Fake is an anomaly that exists between the Fate and Tsukihime sides of the Nasuverse (or something). So DA and Servants both exist at prime power, which is why vampire dude doesn't get swatted immediately. Also Ayaka exists and has an exact look alike who is the master of Saber, which is impossible because Prototype, like Notes, doesn't take place in the larger Nasuverse multiverse. Which means FSF is almost certainly a Lostbelt. That has its own Counter Force. ???????????????

I'm pretty sure Nasu told Narita to forget the rules and just go buck wild.

[Kanon]

Could anybody explain what Karabo's eyes can or can't do? Adashino said his eyes can bring forth the past he's seen/recorded, but what does it mean? According to her, he brought back the slash he had already made beforehand to kill Trisha. But doesn't that similarly mean he could bring back Trisha from the dead, for example?

[Frontier]

It's cool they managed to fit in a Kayneth cameo as part of Waver's internal self-motivation to get himself back up again .

I don't know if there's any timeline where it could happen (except Grand Order, I guess?), but it would be pretty interesting to see Saber and Gray meet and how the original and the "copy" might react to one another, especially since beyond the physical resemblance the two couldn't be more different personality-wise .

Gray snowboarding with Add was unexpected. I bet Saber never did that when she used it .

Yeah, Waver reacted about how I expected him when he saw Melvin on the train .

So it all connects back to the first case, since Trisha was connected to Mary (although Trisha seems a lot older, so that kind of surprised me). I wonder what it is that Olga-Marie's father was so concerned about that he basically discarded his daughter? Did he figure out a way to purify the Holy Grail so it could be used as it was intended ?

And it also connects back to the mage who originally investigated the severed heads case all those years ago...and given they cut back to Adashino immediately after mentioning his sister-in-law, it seems to me that it's her. Which makes me wonder whether there's some personal investment on her part in solving this case or just her own familiarity with it .

Adashino playing detective was kind of neat even if her deduction implicating Karabo is probably a red herring and just meant to spur Waver to really solve the case .

Was that manager voiced by Yoko Hikasa? It sounded like her .

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Frontier

I don't know if there's any timeline where it could happen (except Grand Order, I guess?), but it would be pretty interesting to see Saber and Gray meet and how the original and the "copy" might react to one another, especially since beyond the physical resemblance the two couldn't be more different personality-wise .

Well, technically, if we take the alternate Happy Ending of UBW (Rin, Saber and Shirou all survive and move to London in a polygamic relationship) it could happen. ^^

Spoiler for Sunny Day ending:

They even animated it.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/xUY5SLKFVl8

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

I think her theory is more he makes the cut somewhere else. Records it, and can then deploy it from outside just by seeing Trisha in her room.

Of course this is ignoring the fact that Karabo intended to get rid of his eyes very likely as he says because he couldn't control them. So it's unlikely he had the necessary finesse for this.

Then she wouldn't need to talk all that stuff about using his past vision to see where Trisha would be sitting since that makes no sense.


And yes, of course it isn't Karabo or at least isn't him consciously doing it since he has no control over his Eyes

Originally Posted by Kanon

Could anybody explain what Karabo's eyes can or can't do? Adashino said his eyes can bring forth the past he's seen/recorded, but what does it mean? According to her, he brought back the slash he had already made beforehand to kill Trisha. But doesn't that similarly mean he could bring back Trisha from the dead, for example?

The limits of what his Eyes can do were not stated. Although if he can bring her back to life that would be quite a big asspull

Originally Posted by XFire

Fate Strange Fake is an anomaly that exists between the Fate and Tsukihime sides of the Nasuverse (or something). So DA and Servants both exist at prime power, which is why vampire dude doesn't get swatted immediately. Also Ayaka exists and has an exact look alike who is the master of Saber, which is impossible because Prototype, like Notes, doesn't take place in the larger Nasuverse multiverse. Which means FSF is almost certainly a Lostbelt. That has its own Counter Force. ???????????????

I'm pretty sure Nasu told Narita to forget the rules and just go buck wild.

Isn't Notes/Steel Earth from Tsukihime side? AFAIK the only ones not related to Fate/Tsukihime are KnK and MahouYo

Also that doesn't instantly mean Strange Fake is a Lost Belt. Lost Belt = Quantumn Time Locked time line that the universe has decided to prune being artificially kept alive

[magnuskn]

Oh, and in that Happy Ending timeline, there's also a high chance Saber and Waver would meet in the Clock Tower as well.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Isn't Notes/Steel Earth from Tsukihime side? AFAIK the only ones not related to Fate/Tsukihime are KnK and MahouYo

Also that doesn't instantly mean Strange Fake is a Lost Belt. Lost Belt = Quantumn Time Locked time line that the universe has decided to prune being artificially kept alive

The Fate/Tsukihime multiverse is created and maintained by the planet. Notes takes place in an alternate universe where the planet is dead.

I thought Lostbelt was just the new snappier term for pruned timeline in general? Anyway, I just meant it didn't seem to be playing by the typical rules so it's probably cut off already.

[GDB]

If I recall from Extella, being pruned isn't about following the rules or not. It's about whether or not humanity has stagnated.

Though it's been a while.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

I think her theory is more he makes the cut somewhere else. Records it, and can then deploy it from outside just by seeing Trisha in her room.

Of course this is ignoring the fact that Karabo intended to get rid of his eyes very likely as he says because he couldn't control them. So it's unlikely he had the necessary finesse for this.

The way I understood it is that he made the cut while trysha wasn't there and brought it back from the past using his past vision.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by GDB

If I recall from Extella, being pruned isn't about following the rules or not. It's about whether or not humanity has stagnated.

Though it's been a while.

It can be for any of a bunch of reasons. Timelines can get pruned for doing too well, iirc. Or alternatives to a quantum time lock. And the planet periodically cuts down the excess to keep it under control.

Like there's no actual version of the world where Gilgamesh wasn't king of Uruk, or where Arturia didn't draw Caliburn and eventually end up on Camlaan. Not because it couldn't happen, but because the planet chopped off the futures where it did.

[4th Dimension]

Originally Posted by XFire

I'm pretty sure Nasu told Narita to forget the rules and just go buck wild.

And that's why I love it

It's bigger, louder and wider Holy Grail War: U.S. of A edition. An American adaptation of something made in another culture that they have slightly copied and then twisted into near unrecognizable and it's awesome

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Frontier

Gray snowboarding with Add was unexpected. I bet Saber never did that when she used it .

Yeah, that's more of a Mordred thing. I wonder how she and Gray would get along? They're both surfers with a complicated relationship toward Artoria. But Mordred is way more into summer.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by GDB

If I recall from Extella, being pruned isn't about following the rules or not. It's about whether or not humanity has stagnated.

Though it's been a while.

Yeah, basically that

[Thess]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Well, technically, if we take the alternate Happy Ending of UBW (Rin, Saber and Shirou all survive and move to London in a polygamic relationship) it could happen. ^^

Spoiler for Sunny Day ending:

They even animated it.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/xUY5SLKFVl8

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Nasu said Saber was a guardian and parental figure in UBW, iirc. So he retconned anything romantic because wouldn't make sense with her character anyway.

Originally Posted by GDB

If I recall from Extella, being pruned isn't about following the rules or not. It's about whether or not humanity has stagnated.

Though it's been a while.

It's not as simple. If civilization advances too much, too far and too different from the "average consensus", then it gets on the chopping block too. Now what does this entails is sometimes quite dumb and Nasu doesn't look like he makes any consistent rules for his supposed timelocks or you know what timeline of an adapted animated show would have gotten rightfully trashed long time ago.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Thess

It's not as simple. If civilization advances too much, too far and too different from the "average consensus", then it gets on the chopping block too. Now what does this entails is sometimes quite dumb and Nasu doesn't look like he makes any consistent rules for his supposed timelocks or you know what timeline of an adapted animated show would have gotten rightfully trashed long time ago.

Generally too far from "average consensus" has all been shown to mean "stagnated" so far. Even the highly advanced ones that advance to the point where there is no longer room for growth

Originally Posted by XFire

The Fate/Tsukihime multiverse is created and maintained by the planet. Notes takes place in an alternate universe where the planet is dead.

I thought Lostbelt was just the new snappier term for pruned timeline in general? Anyway, I just meant it didn't seem to be playing by the typical rules so it's probably cut off already.

More like the planet was killed somehow but I always thought it was meant to be Tsukihime's future (seeing how it followed the whole Gaia + Planets vs humans plot and Fate did not exist back then I guess). BTW EXTRA series should be out of the planet's influence since that's purely Moon Cell and Velber dependent

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

More like the planet was killed somehow but I always thought it was meant to be Tsukihime's future (seeing how it followed the whole Gaia + Planets vs humans plot and Fate did not exist back then I guess). BTW EXTRA series should be out of the planet's influence since that's purely Moon Cell and Velber dependent

I don't think Notes was ever actually tied to Tsukihime beyond Notes being the result of a possible path for a Nasuverse world. So I guess Tsukihime could end up that way, but it's not a direct connection.

And the Moon Cell is what the planet uses to actually create and prune the multiverse thing, so it's still in there.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by XFire

And the Moon Cell is what the planet uses to actually create and prune the multiverse thing, so it's still in there.

Moon Cell simply records events. The timeline is a product of humans living in each Quantum Time Lock. Also, what prunes timelines is never explicitly stated to be Gaia but simply "the World." It could very well be Alaya or something human related since it's how the experiential universe of humans is stabilized or just as likely, the physical star system itself.

Not to mention also that EXTRA is heavily influenced by alien entities which are beyond the planet's power

[GDB]

I'm just waiting for Nasu to come out and say something like "there are multiple trees, each with their own, independent quantum locks" or something so every TypeMoon story becomes Schrodinger's Timeline and is both pruned and not pruned in some tree or all trees until otherwise noted.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Moon Cell simply records events. The timeline is a product of humans living in each Quantum Time Lock. Also, what prunes timelines is never explicitly stated to be Gaia but simply "the World." It could very well be Alaya or something human related since it's how the experiential universe of humans is stabilized or just as likely, the physical star system itself.

Not to mention also that EXTRA is heavily influenced by alien entities which are beyond the planet's power

The Moon Cell is used to track and decide what timelines should stay or go. Admittedly I just took "the world" to mean Gaia in general, but I guess it could be Alaya as well, or both.

That said, what do you mean "living in each time lock"? The locks just ensure the past history is immutable at set points.

And Velber's attack happened in every timeline. In the first place by nature of it being alien, the separate timelines thing has no effect on it. It landed on Earth and fucked it up till Saber nuked her with Excalibur, and that event translates over to every timeline culled or not.

That's why a bunch of gods who have nothing to do with Altera as Attilla or the moon cell still recognize and fear her.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by XFire

The Moon Cell is used to track and decide what timelines should stay or go. Admittedly I just took "the world" to mean Gaia in general, but I guess it could be Alaya as well, or both.

That said, what do you mean "living in each time lock"? The locks just ensure the past history is immutable at set points.

And Velber's attack happened in every timeline. In the first place by nature of it being alien, the separate timelines thing has no effect on it. It landed on Earth and fucked it up till Saber nuked her with Excalibur, and that event translates over to every timeline culled or not.

That's why a bunch of gods who have nothing to do with Altera as Attilla or the moon cell still recognize and fear her.

The Moon Cell is not the authority though. In fact why would the Moon Cell be under Gaia's authority if the Earth is really what is deciding what gets pruned? That bit really needs to be explained


I mean Velber being outside Gaia's authority so EXTRA events cannot be considered 100% th product of Earth or 人理


Come to think of it, the Time Locks don't seem to apply to aliens also seeing how they are keeping the Lost Belts alive in FGO. Seems to be purely a human related thing....or not. Might be just the aliens dumping in extra life energy from their galaxies via the Trees