(L) 5-Toubun no Hanayome

[Schpittfeuer]

Hey can someone explain to me what happens there when she says "He's innocent"?

I don't remember if this was explained before

[thefreakmike]

Some oddball in the street thought Fuutaro took a picture of him/her without his consent

[WingedAccelerator]

^^Chapter 34.

Wait a minute... Did the quints move back to their old home, or their current apartment just feels similar to their old one in the flashback?

[wuhugm]

I knew it Yotsuba gonna win
To me, only Ichika and Yotsuba ever had a chance to win

[ijnek]

Originally Posted by MK-95-

Not caring for appearances anymore doesn't exactly justify why she'd want to kiss him disguised as Itsuki.

But it’s not exactly that, it’s everything that happened to that point, the trip was a failure for her in every way, you could say she was desperate and frustrated enough to go after a kiss at the last moment. I also forgot to mention that she’s the only one fixated on the bell legend (ch. 65), we can assume that she wanted to kiss him and ring the bell together, Fuuts being there alone seemed to be a good chance she couldn’t let go by. She's the romantic type that believes in those things as shown before.

Originally Posted by MK-95-

Miku herself has stated "there are some things I can't do as Miku" (implying that when she's in disguise, she's a lot braver).

Although I agree Miku being the bell kisser had some valid points, I was never completely sold on it. Fuuts also used logic to recognize her, he narrowed down to 2 options before doing so, and Miku was aware of it. Would she go for a kiss considering that? Wouldn’t confessing to him make more sense since they have the same voice? Why would she go much further than that when she was delaying her confession and has self-confidence issues? I mean, if Fuuts recognized her on the first try and she wasn’t aware of whatever method he used, it would make a lot more of sense.

Originally Posted by MK-95-

To that I ask: what's stopping Negi from doing the same to Nino? He could just as easily throw everything out the window for her too in the next arc, whether intentionally or unintentionally. This guy's writing has been shit for awhile now and I've resigned myself to expecting to be slightly-greatly disappointed with his intended ending of this manga even if either or my preferred best girls win. That's ultimately why I recommended that you guys not entirely rely on logical reasoning anymore because you may end up being disappointed in the end.

I agree with you that SE and SW left a lot to be desired, especially the latter. But I think that the main problem relies in Negi failing to consistently write the Ichika-Miku drama, and not the bell kisser sub-plot. I definitely think he planned it, but he didn’t put too much thought on it until it was close to happening, it feels like he changed some things to make it more dramatic or whatever. Ichika doubling and tripling down in SW was idiotic, and Miku’s personality changes as it feels like it. And it's disappointhing since she had a good start, great if you want, in the first 40 or so chapters, but she just ended up being a one-dimensional character, her interests besides Fuuts are rarely brought up, and I can’t invest in her character since we don’t know nothing about her past and the root of her self-confidence issues. We just know that she has them and that’s it. Would it be explored in this flashback arc? It’s likely, but I think it’s too late. About Nino, I definitely think Negi puts a lot more care to her character and that's one of the reasons I think she's the bride, 7 Goodbyes was so vastly superior compared to Miku and Ichika's latest arcs (SE and SW).

Originally Posted by MK-95-

That said, all of the above brings me to my final point and that is: the main issue with the bell kisser in general is that this entire situation feels disjointed from the rest of the story. If we were to remove the bell kisser sub-plot in its entirety from Go-Toubun, can you tell me what real consequences would it have on the story?

I guess the arc's original intention was to establish a closer relationship between him and the quintuplets, but it could've done in 3-4 chapters. The bell kisser sub-plot was added for the mystery element I believe. I agree it was not well executed.

Spoiler for I'll just comment a bit:

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

Firstly, the Bell Kisser is obviously not gonna get revealed prematurely by the kisser herself in her thoughts.

I never said that, I just mentioned her words, and her course of action which consisted in procrastinate her confession because she has self-confidence issues that were never sorted out. How would she go after a kiss considering that?

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

If she is not the kisser, then here is the closure of her issue, just as how Miku's issue about Fuutarou doesn't thinking of them as girls started in the Final Exams, and Scrambled Eggs closed it. So Nino not getting closure in the previous arc can easily be solved, without her being the kisser necessarily.

Ichika didn't have a closure either. That still doesn't explain why she stopped trying to kiss him.

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

If Miku's emotional outburst is not a satisfying reason to do the kiss [...] Miku thought about kissing Fuutarou in Chapter 51 and Chapter 52 before by the way, even if one of them was a wet fantasy.

It's not satisfying because Fuuts also used logic to identify her and she was aware of that. Thinking is not the same as doing, especially something like a kiss.

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

In Chapter 75, both Ichika and Nino had a reason to discourage to other by revealing they kissed Fuutarou, but they didn't.

Nino keeps to herself whatever she does with him (Kintarou, ch. 72), there were only 2 times she mentioned something, but never to brag about it or discourage them. Why would she say anything if the kiss was bad anyway?

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

And there is that ominous "Sorry" from her, when Nino already left the room. Apologizing to Itsuki doesn't matter, if she banked on Fuutarou finding her again.

In Chapter 81, Fuutarou refers to "various things happened" (iroiro), when Miku's feelings came to light to him, but only the hug is referenced. The lack of Miku from his thoughts in Chapter 72 would make sense if she is the kisser, and that's why the kisser is there instead of her, not Nino + Miku + Bell Kisser.

As for Miku being satisfied at the end of the Scrambled Eggs/getting closure, no one expected Nino's back to back confessions, so she also has the chance to peak twice in a row.

The "sorry" was crearly about her being in a sorry state even though she was trying to encourage her. You can also see that in ch.84, when she says "sorry, Nino" again after trying to run away. It does matter because Fuutarou finding her is not harmful in any way to her, Itsuki even told her to talk with him, kissing him as her is another story.

If you are implying that he knows Miku kissed him, it's really not the case. He wouldn't check Ichika or Nino's lips otherwise, nor he would doubt about her feelings. When Yotsuba mentions Miku, his reaction doesn't suggest that he was thinking about her. Nino is in his mind because she's sincere about her feelings.

That doesn't make sense, they're completely different characters.

[MK-95-]

Originally Posted by ijnek

But it’s not exactly that, it’s everything that happened to that point, the trip was a failure for her in every way, you could say she was desperate and frustrated enough to go after a kiss at the last moment. I also forgot to mention that she’s the only one fixated on the bell legend (ch. 65), we can assume that she wanted to kiss him and ring the bell together, Fuuts being there alone seemed to be a good chance she couldn’t let go by. She's the romantic type that believes in those things as shown before.

That's still a hard sell for me tbh. Nino's got this weird pride about her where she's as direct and as blunt as she can possibly be when she sets her mind to something. If she wants Fuu's attention and she wants him to be aware of that fact, she'll openly say so.

For her to kiss him using a disguise, even if she has the convenient excuse that "the kiss sucked, so I didn't reveal myself", I still have a hard time accepting that it was her. I stand by my opinion that it's an OOC move for her.

Although I agree Miku being the bell kisser had some valid points, I was never completely sold on it. Fuuts also used logic to recognize her, he narrowed down to 2 options before doing so, and Miku was aware of it. Would she go for a kiss considering that? Wouldn’t confessing to him make more sense since they have the same voice? Why would she go much further than that when she was delaying her confession and has self-confidence issues? I mean, if Fuuts recognized her on the first try and she wasn’t aware of whatever method he used, it would make a lot more of sense.

Prior to Sisters' War, I initially had Miku as a heavy favourite to be the bell kisser. However, that opinion has somewhat changed and I'm now in doubt about her being the kisser because her actions and words during SW contradict the kisser's actions.

Granted, I've already highlighted that Negi's writing has been inconsistent as of late and I'm unsure if I can or should trust my logical deductions. It'd annoy me more if I logically assess the situation and eliminate a girl as a suspect, only for said girl to later be revealed as the culprit. That's the absolute last thing that I'd want to happen tbh because I know I'd be hella pissed about it.

I agree with you that SE and SW left a lot to be desired, especially the latter. But I think that the main problem relies in Negi failing to consistently write the Ichika-Miku drama, and not the bell kisser sub-plot. I definitely think he planned it, but he didn’t put too much thought on it until it was close to happening, it feels like he changed some things to make it more dramatic or whatever. Ichika doubling and tripling down in SW was idiotic, and Miku’s personality changes as it feels like it. And it's disappointhing since she had a good start, great if you want, in the first 40 or so chapters, but she just ended up being a one-dimensional character, her interests besides Fuuts are rarely brought up, and I can’t invest in her character since we don’t know nothing about her past and the root of her self-confidence issues. We just know that she has them and that’s it. Would it be explored in this flashback arc? It’s likely, but I think it’s too late. About Nino, I definitely think Negi puts a lot more care to her character and that's one of the reasons I think she's the bride, 7 Goodbyes was so vastly superior compared to Miku and Ichika's latest arcs (SE and SW).

Yup, that's exactly my point. Negi's writing has been sub-par for awhile now and I'm skeptical about if he can satisfyingly conclude this story or not. I've practically lost all faith in him as a writer and I'm more or less bracing myself for potential disappointment. I've also gone on record by saying that even if my preferred girl won, if I'm not satisfied with the buildup to, execution and aftermath of said win, then I would not be a hypocrite about it. I'll openly criticize it if it's not to my liking because I pride myself on the fact that I try my hardest to be as objective as possible, regardless of whether I'm in the winning faction or not.

Seeing your criticisms of Miku feels like I'm looking into a mirror tbh... As you can see from those posts I linked, my views basically align with yours. There's not much to say on the matter as I have been rather disappointed with Miku as a character for awhile now. I'm still very much in her corner, but I don't overlook the flaws in her characterization and have been very vocal about these flaws.

I guess the arc's original intention was to establish a closer relationship between him and the quintuplets, but it could've done in 3-4 chapters. The bell kisser sub-plot was added for the mystery element I believe. I agree it was not well executed.

Honestly speaking, if Scrambled Eggs in its entirety or more specifically, just the parts about the bell legend/bell kisser were removed from this manga, quite a few of the current problems would not exist to begin with. The flaws/inconsistencies in the writing only started to become apparent during and after that arc. It's the one blemish on an otherwise decent manga.

[WingedAccelerator]

Originally Posted by ijnek

I never said that, I just mentioned her words, and her course of action which consisted in procrastinate her confession because she has self-confidence issues that were never sorted out. How would she go after a kiss considering that?

Fuutarou gave a confidence boost to Miku by finding her, suggesting that she is special to him. And yes, there was logic used there, but only in the parts before it came down to Ichika and Miku. Miku was overjoyed, because Fuutarou told her that she looked like Miku to him, and that’s why he changed his mind. The kiss can be easily a "Thank you" from her, which can be played off if necessary... Which kind of happened, since the kiss was bad, and Fuutarou had no idea who did it, and the kisser ran away.

Originally Posted by ijnek

Ichika didn't have a closure either. That still doesn't explain why she stopped trying to kiss him.

Ichika had a closure. She had back and forth thoughts about supporting her sisters and wanting Fuutarou for herself. These thoughts started in the Final Exams, or even before, and after Yotsuba’s talk, she accepted that she wanted Fuutarou for herself, no more excuses.

Nino wanted Fuutarou to be conscious of her. During Scrambled Eggs, she quickly went from calm and content into love crazed predator. Honestly, she pretty much had no idea about what to do regarding her conquest, and just threw out ideas like hand holding and stuff, and that’s how the idea of kissing him even came to be. Saying that Nino failed at what she set up to do in the arc implies she spent the majority of the arc trying, when pretty much her kissing attempts were portrayed only in 1 chapter out of the 8. So it's not like she was trying consecutively for 3-4 chapters, and that's why she should have succeeded in the end, and that's her compensation.
Fuutarou explaining to her why he ended up avoiding her simply changed her mind. There is no point in kissing him, if he wouldn’t accept her confession. She wants to prove him first how much she loves him.

Besides, this is also a bit contradictory. If Nino kissed him, but the kiss was bad, then surely she would go for another one in better circumstances, now that she has the chance. So she is supposed to be content with a bad kiss, but the kiss was so bad, she is not even gonna mention it, or count it, but the kiss still made her lose the urge to try kiss him again, when Fuutarou has no idea who did it, and the kiss from Nino's perspective shouldn't be effective at all.

Originally Posted by ijnek

Nino keeps to herself whatever she does with him (Kintarou, ch. 72), there were only 2 times she mentioned something, but never to brag about it or discourage them. Why would she say anything if the kiss was bad anyway?

Ichika gave her plenty of reasons to use something like the kiss to put her in her place.
You can't say that X character should be excluded because of her thoughts, but it's okay for Y character to be not, because she is not type to reveal stuff like this. If Nino revealed Miku that she confessed to Fuutarou, then what kept her from telling Miku that she went to kiss him, but it was a disaster and didn't increase her chances at all? My point is the same. These types of mysteries are obviously not gonna get revealed by thoughts or personalities alone.

Originally Posted by ijnek

The "sorry" was crearly about her being in a sorry state even though she was trying to encourage her. You can also see that in ch.84, when she says "sorry, Nino" again after trying to run away. It does matter because Fuutarou finding her is not harmful in any way to her, Itsuki even told her to talk with him, kissing him as her is another story.

It’s not the same "Sorry." Negi uses those shady panels, where the eyes are not shown to hint something more to those panels (Like Chapter 21 for Yotsuba). Besides there is also hesitation there "Nino... I'm sorry..." The "Sorry" in Chapter 84 is a normal thought, she shakes her head, everything is visible.

Originally Posted by ijnek

If you are implying that he knows Miku kissed him, it's really not the case. He wouldn't check Ichika or Nino's lips otherwise, nor he would doubt about her feelings. When Yotsuba mentions Miku, his reaction doesn't suggest that he was thinking about her. Nino is in his mind because she's sincere about her feelings.

Thought about the lip checking, and I think it’s not an investigation on his part. Ichika made a suggestive face, so he got reminded. Nino sent him a flying kiss, he got reminded. The entire Volume 9 was about suggesting Fuutarou doesn’t think specially about Miku, and he got fooled by Ichika’s act. Why did Yotsuba bring up Miku to him? "Nah, not her." Then it turns out he knew about Miku’s feelings. When I mentioned the chocolates last time, I thought about the fact that to Nino, they were ignored, but Fuutarou later came to the realization, had a suspicion since around a month. If giving him Valentine's chocolates, and hugging him doesn't earn Miku right to be in his thoughts, but the kisser is there, then something is really off, cause tell me how these are not sincere feelings to consider.

[ijnek]

Originally Posted by MK-95-

That's still a hard sell for me tbh. Nino's got this weird pride about her where she's as direct and as blunt as she can possibly be when she sets her mind to something. If she wants Fuu's attention and she wants him to be aware of that fact, she'll openly say so.

I think that’s fair. As I said before, in my opinion, if we’re not flexible, it would only be in character for Ichika, because I don’t think Miku saying there are some things she can't do as her justifies her going for a kiss, especially when she apologized for doing so and could’ve confessed instead of kissing. But I won't insist on that.

Originally Posted by MK-95-

Yup, that's exactly my point. Negi's writing has been sub-par for awhile now and I'm skeptical about if he can satisfyingly conclude this story or not. I've practically lost all faith in him as a writer and I'm more or less bracing myself for potential disappointment. I've also gone on record by saying that even if my preferred girl won, if I'm not satisfied with the buildup to, execution and aftermath of said win, then I would not be a hypocrite about it. I'll openly criticize it if it's not to my liking because I pride myself on the fact that I try my hardest to be as objective as possible, regardless of whether I'm in the winning faction or not.

Seeing your criticisms of Miku feels like I'm looking into a mirror tbh... As you can see from those posts I linked, my views basically align with yours. There's not much to say on the matter as I have been rather disappointed with Miku as a character for awhile now. I'm still very much in her corner, but I don't overlook the flaws in her characterization and have been very vocal about these flaws.

I’ve read your posts and it’s surprising to see how you’ve been criticizing her character even though she’s your favorite one (that should be the norm, actually), and especially when this forum is Miku centric. And it's not like you don't hear other people's opinions, you always reevaluate your views and try to be as objective as possible. That's great on your part.

About Masamune-kun, I still don't know what the author was even thinking, last 10 chapters of pure baiting.

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

Ichika had a closure. She had back and forth thoughts about supporting her sisters and wanting Fuutarou for herself.

I was talking about Ichika not having a closure in Final Exams since you brought up Miku not having one either. Nino’s the only one who didn’t get one in SE.

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

Saying that Nino failed at what she set up to do in the arc implies she spent the majority of the arc trying, when pretty much her kissing attempts were portrayed only in 1 chapter out of the 8. So it's not like she was trying consecutively for 3-4 chapters, and that's why she should have succeeded in the end, and that's her compensation.

Fuutarou explaining to her why he ended up avoiding her simply changed her mind. There is no point in kissing him, if he wouldn’t accept her confession. She wants to prove him first how much she loves him.

She wanted to take a bath and meet up with him, it wasn't just one time.

Chapter 71 doesn't happen immediately after the trip.

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

Ichika gave her plenty of reasons to use something like the kiss to put her in her place.

But Nino's not someone who does something like that, she could’ve used something positive in her view like the time she made him blush, but she didn’t either.

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

It’s not the same "Sorry." Negi uses those shady panels, where the eyes are not shown to hint something more to those panels (Like Chapter 21 for Yotsuba). Besides there is also hesitation there "Nino... I'm sorry..." The "Sorry" in Chapter 84 is a normal thought, she shakes her head, everything is visible.

But in the same chapter, Miku said she has been fighting fair, why would she even say sorry to her then?

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

Thought about the lip checking, and I think it’s not an investigation on his part. Ichika made a suggestive face, so he got reminded. Nino sent him a flying kiss, he got reminded. The entire Volume 9 was about suggesting Fuutarou doesn’t think specially about Miku, and he got fooled by Ichika’s act. Why did Yotsuba bring up Miku to him? "Nah, not her." Then it turns out he knew about Miku’s feelings. When I mentioned the chocolates last time, I thought about the fact that to Nino, they were ignored, but Fuutarou later came to the realization, had a suspicion since around a month. If giving him Valentine's chocolates, and hugging him doesn't earn Miku right to be in his thoughts, but the kisser is there, then something is really off, cause tell me how these are not sincere feelings to consider.

It was not an investigation but when he got a clear look he checked them. I'm not making an assesment of Miku's feelings, but it makes sense for him to consider more seriously Nino's feelings than Miku's. We can always go back to his talk about "not wanting to invalidate someone's efforts" or "let's be fair", and how Miku told him that it takes a lot of courage to confess to someone in ch.61. In fact, Miku didn't tell him, in both occasions, why she gave him Valentine's chocolates, she was not sincere.

And, again, when Yotsuba mentioned Miku, Fuuts' reaction shows that he was not thinking about her at that moment. The "it's not like there's a specific person or anything..." line implies that he was talking about just one person, maybe he assumes that the one who kissed him was Nino.

[Tenzen12]

Majority of arguments both for and against can be dissmissed with very basic assumption, That kiss could completely spontaneous. Why kisser looked was looking like Itsuki? Because she didn't though of changing out of their default Itsuki cosplay. It didn's have to be part of some plan or kind of statement.

[~Yami~]

wow wait... I was always under impression that the real dad is that stoic stupid doctor... but he is actually their step dad?!?!

so the quints are actually starting out in a small apartment with limited economy
that is why they're not that stressed out when they moved away from that luxury

and seems like Yotsuba is really going for win
this is such a nice plot and arc

[RDNexus]

Erm... It was made known quite early that the doctor was their stepdad, and that they were poor before their mother married the doctor

[WingedAccelerator]

Originally Posted by ijnek

I was talking about Ichika not having a closure in Final Exams since you brought up Miku not having one either. Nino’s the only one who didn’t get one in SE.

My point was that a character not always gonna have a closure in the same arc she sets herself up to do something, or a new issue is revealed about her. To me, Nino set herself up in Chapter 60, and her next "update" regarding her situation came in Chapter 71. If I really want to force a closure for her in Scrambled Eggs, then her closure is that she knows the competition increased. That's why she questions her lead in Chapter 71.

Originally Posted by ijnek

She wanted to take a bath and meet up with him, it wasn't just one time.
Chapter 71 doesn't happen immediately after the trip.

The bath one was 3 pages, the meet up idea is in the same chapter as she wanted to kiss him. So Day 2, mostly just Chapter 65. Far from "spending all the trip to make him conscious of her". Not to mention, in the first place Nino wanted Fuutarou to say something to her if he wants to tell her something, but Fuutarou didn't come to her, that's why she started attacking. Once again, quite condradictory considering she was fine with not hearing from him for weeks after her confession.

Around 2 weeks have passed since the trip when their talk happened. Miku's issue was there for at least 1 month or a bit more.

Originally Posted by ijnek

But in the same chapter, Miku said she has been fighting fair, why would she even say sorry to her then?

She admires Nino's courage, straightforwardness. Chapter 61 and 82 made a point about that. If she thinks of herself as a coward, worthless compared to the other sisters, apologizing for stealing a kiss from Fuutarou, when she couldn't even muster the courage to confess properly before, or tell him it was her, who kissed him, is in character for her. (Especially after the Ichika pity party). It has nothing to do with fair fight. That was about how she kept getting attacked, when she just wanted everyone to have their chances, without hindering the other.
----------

https://twitter.com/negi_haruba/stat...12018458857472
Negi's daughter is born.

[~Yami~]

Originally Posted by xrick

Erm... It was made known quite early that the doctor was their stepdad, and that they were poor before their mother married the doctor

yeah... I don't really know why could I forget that fact...

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

wow wait... I was always under impression that the real dad is that stoic stupid doctor... but he is actually their step dad?!?!

so the quints are actually starting out in a small apartment with limited economy
that is why they're not that stressed out when they moved away from that luxury

and seems like Yotsuba is really going for win
this is such a nice plot and arc

Wait... You didn't know Maruo is their foster father? Seems like you overlooked some key details over there. Their real dad might be the one who"pumped & dumped" run away from responsibility before they were even born.

Just... how quick you jumped ship & assume Yotsuba is the winner in just two chapter just because she was the childhood friend he met?

[Sixth]

If this is hentai, their mom would have got NTR by the fat coach.

[LeftSeven]

how dare you calling he's fat !!

he's football legend maradona, y'know

show some respect, please!

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Sixth

If this is hentai, their mom would have got NTR by the fat coach.

Well what if their step-father just told them she died to spare their feelings?

[RDNexus]

Has no new chapter come out yet? By this time, there's usually spoilers around here...

[WingedAccelerator]

Decided to wait for the Korean scans to drop this time, cause I wanted to see all of the pages.

Spoiler for Chapter 88:

KG's and Fuutarou's story continues with the picture being taken (Or at least Yotsuba making the peace sign towards the camera). Yotsuba buys the charms and wastes all of her money. Both of them reveal that they are poor, and in a shrine pray for their mother (Yotsuba), his sister (Fuutarou), and being successful in studying or something. (Yotsuba: "If I didn't exist, mom would have it easier") The whole scene feels and looks like a fated promise. Someone finds them, and picks them up, most likely Papa Nakano.

Negi strikes again at the inn, where Nino hears the story from Yotsuba, and refers to Fuusomething as Fuu-kun. Both Nino and Yotsuba witness Ichika talking to Fuutarou, and Yotsuba gets depressed. This leads to Yotsuba putting on the ribbon, while also proudly stating to her mother that she won, she had the best grade amongs them last time, she is no longer at the same level as them. Moments later Itsuki reveals that she also put on an accessory and started imitating Yotsuba. Rena says that what's important is not who did it first, but the fact the five of them are together or something.

Rena dies sometimes afterwards, and Maruo took care of the quints. They are in middle school, and Yotsuba seems displeased, thinking about how the five of them can no longer be together. End of the chapter.

I'm still waiting for some sort of Miku backstory, but in the past I played with the thought of Miku having some sort of identity crisis as a backstory, and that's why she is so good at imitating her sisters. Turns out the one with identity crisis was Yotsuba all along.

[Lex79]

So if I'm interpreting things correctly

Spoiler for ch 88:

the Kids Ichika "stole" from Yotsuba was in fact Fuutarou, and the multiple Kyoto girl theory is disproved.