High School DxD [LN/M] - Discussion about Other Topics

[The Infinite Dream]

Rayzer im not sure why you're still going Issei wasnt corned in the match against Rias at all but against Vidar the man literally had to pull a miracle out of his ass to win meaning they were a bit closer to securing victory than rias as he was never backed into a corner in that match.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Rayzer

That kind of proves my point.

It in fact does the opposite of that. What?

Originally Posted by Rayzer

By volume 12 Issei was already familiar with most of Cao Cao's abilities and Vali told him the rest. Despite that Cao Cao was still kicking Issei's ass. Issei couldn't even land a hit on him while Cao Cao was destroying his armor. Despite Issei using Rias breast to replenish his his power, Cao Cao was still dominating him.

"Dominating him"

Lol wut? A single glancing blow and Cao Cao would have been paste. Issei never actually took any damage until Cao Cao used a new move.

And in case you forgot your point, the argument was that type advantage was a major (in fact you implied sole) advantage Kiba had over Issei and was sufficient to compensate for the difference. Cao Cao had to use his BxB and abuse his abilities to survive CxC. That entire fight is a resounding denial of your point.

Originally Posted by Rayzer

Kiba's elemental swords doesn't bother Issei but his holy swords did and Kiba's style was speed and counters which is the emphasize of a technique type. Issei was bad against this because he's a straight forward power type which is why Kiba is always a bad match up. This has been stated multiple times.

Speed. Just speed. That's all his "technique" consisted of against Issei. And Kiba states that Issei is a bad match up for him because one blow will down him.

Again, you forget your own point, which was "Kiba's techniques were not just speed".

Originally Posted by Rayzer

Fenrir is a power type while Balor Rias has abilities that leans her towards a technique type. All Fenrir has is his body. His speed is useless against someone who can teleport and have time stop and his fangs doesn't mean anything if he can't catch his enemy. Considering all Fenrir's attacks is just linear and straight forward, this obviously gives Rias an advantage. Not all wizards can use time manipulation and constantly teleport during battle. Rias abilities gives her an advantage against close combat fighters in general.

Fenrir's weapons are speed and a God slaying weapon. By the definition we've already established he's a technique type. Rias is stated multiple times to be a power type.

Fenrir is one of the fastest characters in the series and far faster than most projectiles. His "linear" attacks have a far better chance of hitting Rias than most ranged fighters, especially since teleporting means AOE is useless. If anything he is uniquely suited to fighting her because she couldn't hit him and a single strike could take her out.

Originally Posted by Rayzer

Nothing is stated or proven those injuries are from glassing blows considering most of the fight was off screen. What we know is her attacks can injure him but nothing proves it can one shot him. Her shooting down Issei's dragon shots is no big deal considering they are just his basic attacks. If her attacks could overpower his dragon shots than that would've been a different story. Her being able to damage his armor is no surprise because it's POD hax but her attacks could only damage his armor not completely destroy it.

Issei's "basic attacks" in DxD make gods puke blood, and dragon shot is more powerful than his punches. Also PoD doesnt have "hax" erasure. A strong enough opponent can smack it away or crush it. Again, for her ability to work there has to be a certain parity in power level. And it's not like it's relevant either way, as the "hax" would erase him just as well as the armor, meaning regardless of how it can still damage HD-class enemies, and to a greater extent than Fimbulventr Shot.

Both Fenrir and Issei note that direct attacks would be terrible for them, Fenrir is desparate to dodge every shot, Issei goes out of his way to shoot them down, but sure let's pretend their not a threat despite both these opponents being above God-class.

Originally Posted by Rayzer

Roygun's job as a scout was to survey the field but got ambush near the base. The only person with Issei when he went to check was Ravel. Remember this was at the start of the game so Asia and everyone else was still inside the base so Issei was screwed if Rias caught him in time stop. That's just how close she was at beating him. Rias plan was to catch them off guard by making the first move. Issei was nearly caught in the ambush when he went to check outside since Rias surprise attack was close to their base.

Spoiler:

While there was such a conversation, Bova and Roygun-San went out for recognition. The remaining members began to talk about "how to move to the school that is the enemy base".
However, it happens all of a sudden.

Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!

I heard a huge noise and the whole house shook incredibly!
It was a tremor that could hit the basement!
Everyone looks at each other's faces.
─ an attack was made nearby!?

Due to this event occurring only a few moments after the start of the strategy, we were all surprised and left immediately ─ ─.

When I got out of the driveway at the same time I heard that.
《 1 『 pawn』 of the team [Sekiryuutei of the Blazing Truth] was withdrawn 》
─-the withdrawal announcement! Hey hey hey, it's an announcement of the withdrawal of a member of my team!?

Feeling the sign of aura, eye to the sky ─ ─ there was an incarnation of the darkness floating in the air!

A black silhouette emerging in human format! You got ten wings on your back! The third Crimson eye shines on his forehead.
─ ─ 『 Forbidden Invade balor The Princess 』, the technique of joining the Rias and Gasper! It is the appearance of the transformed Rias!

On both sides of the Rias that turned into a black beast are, the Gram of the Demonic swords ─ ─ Kiba, who possessed the demonic sword of Gram and also had the appearance of the Lint-san that possessed a purple flame sword, had a halo of light on his head and and M your back 6 silver angel wings!

Roygun-san was wounded floating in the air in a position slightly away from the three, and was in a fighting posture for Rias and the others!

...... There is no figure of Bova. Of course, the previously announced of my team, the withdrawal report of the 『 pawn 』 it was Bova!

On my side, Ravel created his teeth with frustration.
"...... Surprise Attack! No way, at the beginning of this initial stage, this appearance and, with this force come to attack the enemy base.....! "

And to think, that at the beginning of the beginning the own 『 king 』 would come to attack the enemy base.....!

The third eye of Rias, looks down where we are and, turns red... No, it shines red!

When seeing this, Roygun-san screams.
"Go inside the house!"

Roygun-san that was lined in aura, instantly goes up towarda Rias, Kiba and Lint-san at high speed!

Ravel, who was aware of the situation in a single word from Roygun-san, pulled my arm and pulled me into the house.
Immediately closed the entrance door. 　

I told Ravel! 　
"But Roygun-san!"

Ravel tells me.
"You can't! Rias-sama intended to stop time with the third eye! Ise-sama who is not transformed, you cannot prevent that! "

It.

Didn't.

Work.

For her to be close to beating him, she'd have to have hit him, reached him, gotten past his peerage, and then barely missed the final blow. Then it would be a "close call". Launching a deadly attack, much less a mere setup, is not "almost winning" when it misses.

[XFire]

Considering this is like the third time you've moved the goal posts, I think we're done.

Typhon came closer to victory than Rias did. That's a simple statement of fact, and why my original statement was that he was the harder win of the two.

If after all this you still believe otherwise, more power to you. I'm not getting dragged into another infinite loop, especially since this one is beginning to aggravate me and I dont want to start chomping people's heads off again.

You can have the last word and then we can move on.

[Lord Kai]

Originally Posted by XFire

Considering this is like the third time you've moved the goal posts, I think we're done.

Typhon came closer to victory than Rias did. That's a simple statement of fact, and why my original statement was that he was the harder win of the two.

If after all this you still believe otherwise, more power to you. I'm not getting dragged into another infinite loop, especially since this one is beginning to aggravate me and I dont want to start chomping people's heads off again.

You can have the last word and then we can move on.

I agree with everything you said except the definition of a team technique type. Rayzer was correct on that. Kiba's speed alone isn't what makes him a technique type. Azazel went over this in volume 5.

(Sensei suddenly circled me, Xenovia and Koneko-chan in the Power-types and spoke.

“The things that Power-types have to be most careful of are—counters. A troublesome class among the Technique-types. That is the counter-type ability. There are counter-types even among the Sacred Gears, but when fighting an opponent who carries one, power-types like Ise, Koneko and Xenovia can have their situations turned around by a single counter blow. It’s because counters return the opponent’s power to them plus the power of the one who counters. When one is strong, it’s natural for there to be damage just as strong.”)

Azazel commented on this when he was comparing Issei to Kiba.

(“That’s how it is. Whether it is against Kiba or anyone else, you have openings for counter-attacks. Ise, if you don’t create a counter-measure against counter-users, you won’t be able to win against Kiba for life. That is what battle compatibility means.”)

This is why Balor Rias was able to put up a good fight against Fenrir because her abilities like time stop and teleportation are perfect counters against Fenrir who can only attack linearly since he is a power type.

As for Rias POD, she's able to do it mainly because of POD hax. Rias has shown she can injure someone that's even stronger with her POD due to hax. This is proven in the fight against Kokabiel. Despite Kokabiel being stronger and blocked her attack, he didn't come out of it unscathed. Not to mention what she did to Grendel.

[CCPDarkraiRules]

Spoiler for Kiba-kun and Hyoudou-kun Playground:

Kiba-kun and Hyoudou-kun Playground:
Issei receives a request from the Underworld government to bring his male friends to a certain location with him, so he tells Kiba about it. Issei is worried who to invite and if they would agree to accept his request. So Kiba tells him that both he and Gasper jwill oin him. Issei, Kiba, and Gasper travel by train to the Capital Lilith where they took another train to reach a station by a lake. They arrived at a large theme park named "Satan Island", which was developed and built around a vast lake and the park itself is divided into 4 districts each named after the 4 Maou. Lucifer District is in the center and Leviathan District is at the lake. No guest are inside the theme park yet, so Issei wonders why he needed to come here. Issei walking through the entrance he hears people talking.

Sairaorg "Come on. Sure enough, such a place is indispensable to the chest dragon."
Cao Cao: "Really, the devils always make something interesting."
Dulio: “I’m looking forward to the theme park in the Underworld”
Saji: “"As a Sitri servant, I must definitely visit the Leviathan area."
Vali: “Ah, the food court is where the ramen are, I must evaluate”
Riser: “Want to go shopping with me?”
Tobio: “I was sent by the Grigori to monitor this trip”
Ajuka told Issei that this theme park is near completion, so he wants Issei and his powerful male friends to determine how safe the rides are. Issei questions devil safety standards and wants to leave, but can’t ignore a request from the Maou. So he contacted them, but was worried they may not show, but is also shocked that they actually did show. The park represents the dreams and hope of the Maou, and Issei learns what they mean by “finding a safe benchmark with powerful males”


Saji and Gasper were on a boat ride that had powerful rapids that send their boat down 90 degrees vertically a waterfall. Sairaorg and Cao Cao are riding a high speed roller coaster discussing their various fighting styles with Issei watching everyone through a monitor by the entrance. Vali criticized the ramen asked for the cook, and began making ramen while giving the cook a lecture. Tobio was on a indoor boat maze for half a day, the developers of that ride were so excited that they made it into a real maze, so Tobio left the boat and used Jin to break the ride and escape. In the Sci-fi attractions, Riser and Dulio are wielding light swords while being attacked by Robots developed by Agares. The robotic corps greets the guest by attacking them so they can experience futuristic Sci-fi wars. Issei and Kiba ride the farris wheel together and Kiba said that the creator of the park wanted to make a park that won’t lose to humans. Issei said that even for devils they can be injured here despite their strength, so kids can’t go on the rides. Issei then says that if the park is safe he wants to bring Rias and everyone here. They hear an explosion and from the Farris Wheel Issei sees a facility has exploded and Sairaorg and Cao Cao are covered in smoke but are laughing. Issei can’t help think all the men here are very happy with the current situation.

Spoiler for 2016 Fantasia After School SS:

2016 Fantasia After School SS:
In April of the new school year, the ORC and Kunou decided to garden in Issei’s home’s rooftop. They're using a modified Mandragora breeding set. The instructions say just plant the seed, then give fertilizer, and finally give it space for air for 30secs. Koneko said that you can apply your own aura into the seed. Rias says that depending on the aura provided, they can in a variety of shapes as well as animals and monsters rather than the usual human form. They all planted their Mandragora seeds and after a few days laters, Rias' Mandragora has red leaves and has a face similar to hers growing out of the soil and everyone else grown into something different. Issei’s potted plant shows a dragon tail popping out of the soil because of his aura. Few more days later, everyone's Mandrake is either a human or an animal, but Issei’s Mandragora is now a moving 2m long 4-legged Dragon. Its been staring at Rias, Akeno, Asia, Irina, Xenovia, and Rossweisse’s chest, Koneko even remakes that she's also been noticing it. This is mostly because of Issei’s aura. Everyone is noticing the Mandragora’s eyes following them, but don’t think much of it as it’s a potted plant.

The next day, Ravel came to the living room and said that something is wrong, they rushed to the 3rd floor, and where they saw Irina crying and Issei's Mandragora grabbing her chest with a tentacle vine coming from its mouth and tentacle from its tail attached themselves to Xenovia's chest. Xenovia tried to cut the tentacles, but then the tentacles pulsated and sucked something out of their chest. Irina and Xenovia are shocked as their breast have gotten smaller. It then started looking towards Rias, Akeno, and Ravel, Issei is angry and declares it an enemy, but they have to be careful since they're inside the house. Kunou confronts the Mandragora and they notice that the Mandragora doesn’t seem to target Issei, Kunou, Ophis, and Koneko and chases after Rias. Issei says that it only targets big boobs because of his influence and Koneko calls him the worst. Its been staring at Rias the most, then it emitted a red light and transformed through metamorphosis into a thicker 2-legged version and then released tentacles to suck and shrink Rias and Akeno's breast. Kunou gets angry and attacks it, a large amount was destroyed by her attack, it gets scared and runs away and escaped somewhere in the house.

The Mandrake has been hiding out somewhere in the Hyoudou house appearing in front of the girls and attacking the ones with big breast. They then created the Plant Countermeasure Division referred to as "Big Breast Pair". Irina says they should name the Mandragora, so Koneko calls its Chichira(チチラ) based off boobs and it’s a metamorphous plant. None of their attacks work on it, but Issei came up with a strategy and asked them not be angry. 2 days later, they're waiting for it in the bathing hall where it frequently appears. Its now in its final form, an Armor Version of itself that looks like Issei’s BxB and Issei’s angry that his influence created it. The girls then jumped in front of it all naked. Chichira tried to use it vines on their breast, but Koneko and Kunou attacked it from behind, Koneko punched it and Kunou slapped it, those 2 kept attacking until it was mostly destroyed, though Issei said a slight touch from Ophis or Lilith would've killed it. Rias asked how did he know this would work, Issei said that to Chichira, big boobs are everything and small breast are nothing, and due Issei's influence it only cares about big boobs, so small boobs is basically poison to it. Koneko calls him the worst. They gathered Chichira's body, and managed to regain their breast's original size again.

Spoiler for Rias and Akeno College SS:

Rias and Akeno College SS:
Issei sees Rias and Akeno in the living room discussing which club they should join. They were choosing between clubs in the Culture department or in the Sports Department. They decided not join the Sports department because it’s a pain to constantly hide their true strength. They then found out there's an all-female Occult Research Club. So they decide to visit it. The next day, Issei gets summoned to a dark room as part of his devil's work. Issei is wearing his armor when he's summoned, as of now when Issei gets summoned, he either decides to wears normal clothes or his armor depending on his mood. Issei realizes that he's in the all-female Occult Research Club. The one who summoned him was the president who has long hair and glasses, and surrounding him are all the members + Rias and Akeno(They pretend this is a first). Issei then asked the president if she’s the one who summoned him. She then tells Rias and Akeno that the flyer from the station yesterday actually did summon a devil with the other members praising her for summoning a devil. Rias told Issei that yesterday one of the flyers he distributed was collected by the president. Issei then asked the president what is her desire, which causes Rias to sigh.

The president starts turning red and says "Please be my boyfriend! I want a devil boyfriend! Come set the contract" Issei thinks to himself that he’s been a devil for less than a year and for the first time since he became a devil, he received such a wish from a woman, and he finally became the man he always dreamt of being. Rias and Akeno don’t take this well and began releasing terrifying aura and silently asked Issei “You are my boyfriend, right?” “Ara ara, how will husband respond?” While thinking of what to do, all the members fell to the ground sleeping. Ravel had a bad feeling with the summoning circle and decided to follow Issei. Next day, Rias and Akeno decided not to join any club and instead create "Japanese Culture Research Association". They ask Issei to join after he graduates.

Spoiler for Kunou's Classmate:

"Kunou's Classmate":
Kunou ask Issei if she can bring a classmate from the elementary school to the ORC. Kuoh Academy has some people who has knowledge about the Supernatural and Kunou wants to invite one of her classmates to show them. Kunou brings her to the old School Building and the ORC + Rias introduced themselves to her. The Classmate's name is Kamao Mitsuho 加茂 円保（かも みつほ）and she's from a family of Onmyouji. Rias and Asia show her some magic. Though she knows that Rias is a devil, she decided that the she’s a good person, and she knows that Kunou is a yokai and is ok with it. Mitsuho then shows her a special amulet that has been passed down by her family for generations that repels Evil Spirits, Monsters, Demons, and Vampires. And that despite her age, she has repelled evil spirits away They began giving her a tour of the old school building, where they opened one of doors and inside was 4 cardboard boxes with Red Eyes shining inside the gaps of the boxes. Mitsuho grabs Kunou’s hand and runs away screaming down the corridor. Gasper, Valerie, Elmenhilde and Millarca then each emerged out of their own cardboard box. Every 10 days, Gasper, Valerie, Elmenhilde and Millarca have a vampire meeting to discuss the future of Vampires. Mitsuho has been so traumatized by this incident, that for the past month she has been too afraid to even approach a cardboard box.

Spoiler for School Heroine SS:

School Heroine SS (Takes Place after Flower Arrangement):
Rias is happy with what she learned in Flower Arrangement, so they celebrate by eating a Pound Cake that was made with Rose Liquor wine. The Church Trio is enjoyed it, Rossweisse has gotten drunk after one bite. Rias and Ravel wonder if Issei’s drunk too, but he says he’s fine and that it’s delicious. Rossweisse tries to feed Issei more cake, which he says he can eat on his own. She tells him to shut up and eat and that its obvious that people should listen to brides. Issei says that’s something to consider in the future. Rossweisse starts stripping with Issei telling her to stop. Akeno and Rias are watching as it happens and notices a different side of people when they’re drunk. Xenovia is crying, Irina feels lightheaded and starts stripping, Asia passed out, Koneko feels nothing, Kiba is worried there was too much alcohol, Gasper tells Issei to stop taking such small bites and swallow it in one go. Issei tries to stop Gasper, but he says that Issei should show his brave and honest self and eat more. Rias says this would be bad in the future, but Akeno said it could be fun. Issei tells Rossweisse to let go of him with her crying and saying she wants to be a bride and will never let go.

Summaries of short stories done by Riku on Discord.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

I agree with everything you said except the definition of a team technique type. Rayzer was correct on that. Kiba's speed alone isn't what makes him a technique type. Azazel went over this in volume 5.

(Sensei suddenly circled me, Xenovia and Koneko-chan in the Power-types and spoke.

“The things that Power-types have to be most careful of are—counters. A troublesome class among the Technique-types. That is the counter-type ability. There are counter-types even among the Sacred Gears, but when fighting an opponent who carries one, power-types like Ise, Koneko and Xenovia can have their situations turned around by a single counter blow. It’s because counters return the opponent’s power to them plus the power of the one who counters. When one is strong, it’s natural for there to be damage just as strong.”)

Azazel commented on this when he was comparing Issei to Kiba.

(“That’s how it is. Whether it is against Kiba or anyone else, you have openings for counter-attacks. Ise, if you don’t create a counter-measure against counter-users, you won’t be able to win against Kiba for life. That is what battle compatibility means.”)

This is why Balor Rias was able to put up a good fight against Fenrir because her abilities like time stop and teleportation are perfect counters against Fenrir who can only attack linearly since he is a power type.

Yeah, going to have to disagree on both points.

Kiba's "counter" is moving out of the way and smacking him. That's it. It's still entirely reliant on Kiba's speed and power, there's no special part of the counter that lets him ignore the difference in strength. Kiba literally can't do the "return the opponents strength" part of that, so it has nothing to do with him.

And Balor Rias' abilities are less effective against Fenrir than they are against basically everyone else.

The argument of "attacking linearly" I keep seeing makes no sense in context. The implication is that someone who has ranged attacks would somehow do better than Fenrir in this situation, except that said conclusion has no basis whatsoever. Rias teleports, she doesn't dodge. Firing from different angles, AOE, even spatial attacks are pointless because the instant she moves she's entirely removed from the field of attack. The sole aspect that matters against her is how fast the attack is.

Fenrir is one of the fastest characters in the series and can easily outrun the majority of projectiles, meaning that his physical attacks have a far better chance of striking her than any projectile user. The speed is also the reason he's able to dodge around attacks that could severely damage him, so anyone lacking that would have lost right there.

Time Stop is not a "counter" to Fenrir. It's a "counter" to literally everyone. It doesn't matter what type you are, if you're frozen against an opponent like BP Rias you're typically screwed. The fact that Fenrir (as a top ten) can break out at will means it is less effective against him than it would be against anyone else weaker than him.

So again, Fenrir is the one with the "counters" to Rias' abilities.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

As for Rias POD, she's able to do it mainly because of POD hax. Rias has shown she can injure someone that's even stronger with her POD due to hax. This is proven in the fight against Kokabiel. Despite Kokabiel being stronger and blocked her attack, he didn't come out of it unscathed. Not to mention what she did to Grendel.

Kokabiel is proof that what you're saying is wrong, not the other way around. Attacks aren't automatically nullified if someone is weaker or else Vidar wouldn't be able to scratch Issei pre DK armor. Rias launched a (Boosted) attack and Kokabiel smacked it away. It did some damage just like Vidar's kick did some damage to Issei. Grendel was taken out by Extinquish Star, a super dense mass of power. He was ground to dust by raw force.

"Hax" means it ignores the normal rules and can't be dealt with in the normal way, like time-stop. PoD can be blocked or shot down like normal attacks. It might be better pound-for-pound than normal aura, but that doesn't change anything but efficiency for Rias and Sirzechs. It still hits someone and causes damage like a normal attack.

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by CCPDarkraiRules

Spoiler for Kiba-kun and Hyoudou-kun Playground:

Kiba-kun and Hyoudou-kun Playground:
Issei receives a request from the Underworld government to bring his male friends to a certain location with him, so he tells Kiba about it. Issei is worried who to invite and if they would agree to accept his request. So Kiba tells him that both he and Gasper jwill oin him. Issei, Kiba, and Gasper travel by train to the Capital Lilith where they took another train to reach a station by a lake. They arrived at a large theme park named "Satan Island", which was developed and built around a vast lake and the park itself is divided into 4 districts each named after the 4 Maou. Lucifer District is in the center and Leviathan District is at the lake. No guest are inside the theme park yet, so Issei wonders why he needed to come here. Issei walking through the entrance he hears people talking.

Sairaorg "Come on. Sure enough, such a place is indispensable to the chest dragon."
Cao Cao: "Really, the devils always make something interesting."
Dulio: “I’m looking forward to the theme park in the Underworld”
Saji: “"As a Sitri servant, I must definitely visit the Leviathan area."
Vali: “Ah, the food court is where the ramen are, I must evaluate”
Riser: “Want to go shopping with me?”
Tobio: “I was sent by the Grigori to monitor this trip”
Ajuka told Issei that this theme park is near completion, so he wants Issei and his powerful male friends to determine how safe the rides are. Issei questions devil safety standards and wants to leave, but can’t ignore a request from the Maou. So he contacted them, but was worried they may not show, but is also shocked that they actually did show. The park represents the dreams and hope of the Maou, and Issei learns what they mean by “finding a safe benchmark with powerful males”


Saji and Gasper were on a boat ride that had powerful rapids that send their boat down 90 degrees vertically a waterfall. Sairaorg and Cao Cao are riding a high speed roller coaster discussing their various fighting styles with Issei watching everyone through a monitor by the entrance. Vali criticized the ramen asked for the cook, and began making ramen while giving the cook a lecture. Tobio was on a indoor boat maze for half a day, the developers of that ride were so excited that they made it into a real maze, so Tobio left the boat and used Jin to break the ride and escape. In the Sci-fi attractions, Riser and Dulio are wielding light swords while being attacked by Robots developed by Agares. The robotic corps greets the guest by attacking them so they can experience futuristic Sci-fi wars. Issei and Kiba ride the farris wheel together and Kiba said that the creator of the park wanted to make a park that won’t lose to humans. Issei said that even for devils they can be injured here despite their strength, so kids can’t go on the rides. Issei then says that if the park is safe he wants to bring Rias and everyone here. They hear an explosion and from the Farris Wheel Issei sees a facility has exploded and Sairaorg and Cao Cao are covered in smoke but are laughing. Issei can’t help think all the men here are very happy with the current situation.

Spoiler for 2016 Fantasia After School SS:

2016 Fantasia After School SS:
In April of the new school year, the ORC and Kunou decided to garden in Issei’s home’s rooftop. They're using a modified Mandragora breeding set. The instructions say just plant the seed, then give fertilizer, and finally give it space for air for 30secs. Koneko said that you can apply your own aura into the seed. Rias says that depending on the aura provided, they can in a variety of shapes as well as animals and monsters rather than the usual human form. They all planted their Mandragora seeds and after a few days laters, Rias' Mandragora has red leaves and has a face similar to hers growing out of the soil and everyone else grown into something different. Issei’s potted plant shows a dragon tail popping out of the soil because of his aura. Few more days later, everyone's Mandrake is either a human or an animal, but Issei’s Mandragora is now a moving 2m long 4-legged Dragon. Its been staring at Rias, Akeno, Asia, Irina, Xenovia, and Rossweisse’s chest, Koneko even remakes that she's also been noticing it. This is mostly because of Issei’s aura. Everyone is noticing the Mandragora’s eyes following them, but don’t think much of it as it’s a potted plant.

The next day, Ravel came to the living room and said that something is wrong, they rushed to the 3rd floor, and where they saw Irina crying and Issei's Mandragora grabbing her chest with a tentacle vine coming from its mouth and tentacle from its tail attached themselves to Xenovia's chest. Xenovia tried to cut the tentacles, but then the tentacles pulsated and sucked something out of their chest. Irina and Xenovia are shocked as their breast have gotten smaller. It then started looking towards Rias, Akeno, and Ravel, Issei is angry and declares it an enemy, but they have to be careful since they're inside the house. Kunou confronts the Mandragora and they notice that the Mandragora doesn’t seem to target Issei, Kunou, Ophis, and Koneko and chases after Rias. Issei says that it only targets big boobs because of his influence and Koneko calls him the worst. Its been staring at Rias the most, then it emitted a red light and transformed through metamorphosis into a thicker 2-legged version and then released tentacles to suck and shrink Rias and Akeno's breast. Kunou gets angry and attacks it, a large amount was destroyed by her attack, it gets scared and runs away and escaped somewhere in the house.

The Mandrake has been hiding out somewhere in the Hyoudou house appearing in front of the girls and attacking the ones with big breast. They then created the Plant Countermeasure Division referred to as "Big Breast Pair". Irina says they should name the Mandragora, so Koneko calls its Chichira(チチラ) based off boobs and it’s a metamorphous plant. None of their attacks work on it, but Issei came up with a strategy and asked them not be angry. 2 days later, they're waiting for it in the bathing hall where it frequently appears. Its now in its final form, an Armor Version of itself that looks like Issei’s BxB and Issei’s angry that his influence created it. The girls then jumped in front of it all naked. Chichira tried to use it vines on their breast, but Koneko and Kunou attacked it from behind, Koneko punched it and Kunou slapped it, those 2 kept attacking until it was mostly destroyed, though Issei said a slight touch from Ophis or Lilith would've killed it. Rias asked how did he know this would work, Issei said that to Chichira, big boobs are everything and small breast are nothing, and due Issei's influence it only cares about big boobs, so small boobs is basically poison to it. Koneko calls him the worst. They gathered Chichira's body, and managed to regain their breast's original size again.

Spoiler for Rias and Akeno College SS:

Rias and Akeno College SS:
Issei sees Rias and Akeno in the living room discussing which club they should join. They were choosing between clubs in the Culture department or in the Sports Department. They decided not join the Sports department because it’s a pain to constantly hide their true strength. They then found out there's an all-female Occult Research Club. So they decide to visit it. The next day, Issei gets summoned to a dark room as part of his devil's work. Issei is wearing his armor when he's summoned, as of now when Issei gets summoned, he either decides to wears normal clothes or his armor depending on his mood. Issei realizes that he's in the all-female Occult Research Club. The one who summoned him was the president who has long hair and glasses, and surrounding him are all the members + Rias and Akeno(They pretend this is a first). Issei then asked the president if she’s the one who summoned him. She then tells Rias and Akeno that the flyer from the station yesterday actually did summon a devil with the other members praising her for summoning a devil. Rias told Issei that yesterday one of the flyers he distributed was collected by the president. Issei then asked the president what is her desire, which causes Rias to sigh.

The president starts turning red and says "Please be my boyfriend! I want a devil boyfriend! Come set the contract" Issei thinks to himself that he’s been a devil for less than a year and for the first time since he became a devil, he received such a wish from a woman, and he finally became the man he always dreamt of being. Rias and Akeno don’t take this well and began releasing terrifying aura and silently asked Issei “You are my boyfriend, right?” “Ara ara, how will husband respond?” While thinking of what to do, all the members fell to the ground sleeping. Ravel had a bad feeling with the summoning circle and decided to follow Issei. Next day, Rias and Akeno decided not to join any club and instead create "Japanese Culture Research Association". They ask Issei to join after he graduates.

Spoiler for Kunou's Classmate:

"Kunou's Classmate":
Kunou ask Issei if she can bring a classmate from the elementary school to the ORC. Kuoh Academy has some people who has knowledge about the Supernatural and Kunou wants to invite one of her classmates to show them. Kunou brings her to the old School Building and the ORC + Rias introduced themselves to her. The Classmate's name is Kamao Mitsuho 加茂 円保（かも みつほ）and she's from a family of Onmyouji. Rias and Asia show her some magic. Though she knows that Rias is a devil, she decided that the she’s a good person, and she knows that Kunou is a yokai and is ok with it. Mitsuho then shows her a special amulet that has been passed down by her family for generations that repels Evil Spirits, Monsters, Demons, and Vampires. And that despite her age, she has repelled evil spirits away They began giving her a tour of the old school building, where they opened one of doors and inside was 4 cardboard boxes with Red Eyes shining inside the gaps of the boxes. Mitsuho grabs Kunou’s hand and runs away screaming down the corridor. Gasper, Valerie, Elmenhilde and Millarca then each emerged out of their own cardboard box. Every 10 days, Gasper, Valerie, Elmenhilde and Millarca have a vampire meeting to discuss the future of Vampires. Mitsuho has been so traumatized by this incident, that for the past month she has been too afraid to even approach a cardboard box.

Spoiler for School Heroine SS:

School Heroine SS (Takes Place after Flower Arrangement):
Rias is happy with what she learned in Flower Arrangement, so they celebrate by eating a Pound Cake that was made with Rose Liquor wine. The Church Trio is enjoyed it, Rossweisse has gotten drunk after one bite. Rias and Ravel wonder if Issei’s drunk too, but he says he’s fine and that it’s delicious. Rossweisse tries to feed Issei more cake, which he says he can eat on his own. She tells him to shut up and eat and that its obvious that people should listen to brides. Issei says that’s something to consider in the future. Rossweisse starts stripping with Issei telling her to stop. Akeno and Rias are watching as it happens and notices a different side of people when they’re drunk. Xenovia is crying, Irina feels lightheaded and starts stripping, Asia passed out, Koneko feels nothing, Kiba is worried there was too much alcohol, Gasper tells Issei to stop taking such small bites and swallow it in one go. Issei tries to stop Gasper, but he says that Issei should show his brave and honest self and eat more. Rias says this would be bad in the future, but Akeno said it could be fun. Issei tells Rossweisse to let go of him with her crying and saying she wants to be a bride and will never let go.

Summaries of short stories done by Riku on Discord.

What is the drinking age in japan? Edit 20 they are all two young besides Rose whose German lol.

[Raptor178]

Originally Posted by Parry999

What is the drinking age in japan? Edit 20 they are all two young besides Rose whose German lol.

I thought Rose was Norwegian.

[Lord Kai]

Originally Posted by XFire

Yeah, going to have to disagree on both points.

Kiba's "counter" is moving out of the way and smacking him. That's it. It's still entirely reliant on Kiba's speed and power, there's no special part of the counter that lets him ignore the difference in strength. Kiba literally can't do the "return the opponents strength" part of that, so it has nothing to do with him.

And Balor Rias' abilities are less effective against Fenrir than they are against basically everyone else.

The argument of "attacking linearly" I keep seeing makes no sense in context. The implication is that someone who has ranged attacks would somehow do better than Fenrir in this situation, except that said conclusion has no basis whatsoever. Rias teleports, she doesn't dodge. Firing from different angles, AOE, even spatial attacks are pointless because the instant she moves she's entirely removed from the field of attack. The sole aspect that matters against her is how fast the attack is.

Fenrir is one of the fastest characters in the series and can easily outrun the majority of projectiles, meaning that his physical attacks have a far better chance of striking her than any projectile user. The speed is also the reason he's able to dodge around attacks that could severely damage him, so anyone lacking that would have lost right there.

Time Stop is not a "counter" to Fenrir. It's a "counter" to literally everyone. It doesn't matter what type you are, if you're frozen against an opponent like BP Rias you're typically screwed. The fact that Fenrir (as a top ten) can break out at will means it is less effective against him than it would be against anyone else weaker than him.

So again, Fenrir is the one with the "counters" to Rias' abilities.



Kokabiel is proof that what you're saying is wrong, not the other way around. Attacks aren't automatically nullified if someone is weaker or else Vidar wouldn't be able to scratch Issei pre DK armor. Rias launched a (Boosted) attack and Kokabiel smacked it away. It did some damage just like Vidar's kick did some damage to Issei. Grendel was taken out by Extinquish Star, a super dense mass of power. He was ground to dust by raw force.

"Hax" means it ignores the normal rules and can't be dealt with in the normal way, like time-stop. PoD can be blocked or shot down like normal attacks. It might be better pound-for-pound than normal aura, but that doesn't change anything but efficiency for Rias and Sirzechs. It still hits someone and causes damage like a normal attack.

Kiba's counter is more than just speed. Again, speed isn't what determines a technique type because even power types can have speed. Sairaorg is a prime example, he's a power type but he's also shown to have incredible speed. Kiba's fighting style is about exploiting weaknesses and using precise attacks by exploiting openings. His sparring session with Issei in vol. 7 is a prime example of this.

Wrong, Balor Rias abilities were the most effective on someone like Fenrir, the only thing that kept Fenrir in the fight was his stamina and durability. His speed was useless since Rias could avoid him using time stop and teleport. Anyone like Vali or Apollon could counter Balor Rias because they have the abilities to do so.

Rias uses teleport to avoid close combat because she's a long range fighter. This was obviously the case in her fight against Fenrir. When Fenrir charged at her, she first used time stop but when he broke out she teleported to another location. This is why Issei didn't bother trying to engage her in close combat.

No matter how fast he is. Fenrir's linear attacks makes it easy for Rias to dodge and counter him.

The fact that Rias was able was destroyed someone like Grendel is proof of her POD hax. She went to Sirzechs in order to study the properties of POD. If it was just regular demonic power than Rias attack wouldn't have done much to Grendel no matter how much she condensed it but because the energy was POD than that's a different story.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Kiba's counter is more than just speed. Again, speed isn't what determines a technique type because even power types can have speed. Sairaorg is a prime example, he's a power type but he's also shown to have incredible speed. Kiba's fighting style is about exploiting weaknesses and using precise attacks by exploiting openings. His sparring session with Issei in vol. 7 is a prime example of this.

And again, no, there is literally nothing else. Kiba steps out of his way an whacks him in the side of the head and nothing else. He has no way to reverse Issei's attacks or use his power against him.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Wrong, Balor Rias abilities were the most effective on someone like Fenrir, the only thing that kept Fenrir in the fight was his stamina and durability. His speed was useless since Rias could avoid him using time stop and teleport. Anyone like Vali or Apollon could counter Balor Rias because they have the abilities to do so.

No, Fenrir stayed in the fight by breaking time stop and dodging, i.e. his speed.

Vali and Apollon wouldn't have done any better. Teleportation would dodge light blasts and Half dimension even easier than Fenrir's attacks because of travel time, and since they're slower than Fenrir they'd have a harder time getting out of the way.

What you're ignoring here is that teleportation as a dodge means everything is useless if she reacts fast enough. AOE can't catch her, spatial attacks are useless, multiple shots won't help. The only thing that matters is landing an attack before she teleports and that means speed.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Rias uses teleport to avoid close combat because she's a long range fighter. This was obviously the case in her fight against Fenrir. When Fenrir charged at her, she first used time stop but when he broke out she teleported to another location. This is why Issei didn't bother trying to engage her in close combat.

No matter how fast he is. Fenrir's linear attacks makes it easy for Rias to dodge and counter him.

And? She'd do that against anyone, and she can teleport away from ranged attacks even easier than Fenrir.

What non-linear attack do you think is going to be employed here? AOE and spatial attacks are just as useless as ranged and melee.

Issei beats her by abusing dress break to scatter Gasper and then using Nyuutron Cannon to avoid charge time. So he stops her from teleporting and nukes her before she can respond.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

The fact that Rias was able was destroyed someone like Grendel is proof of her POD hax. She went to Sirzechs in order to study the properties of POD. If it was just regular demonic power than Rias attack wouldn't have done much to Grendel no matter how much she condensed it but because the energy was POD than that's a different story.

No it isn't. It means her attack was that powerful. Grendel is literally ground to pieces by the attack.

Hax would mean the attack couldn't be blocked by normal methods regardless of strength. PoD is just stronger pound-for-pound than normal demonic energy. She still has to deal with the enemies power and durability to kill them.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Parry999

What is the drinking age in japan? Edit 20 they are all two young besides Rose whose German lol.

Well technically they weren't drinking. Just eating a cake that was made with liquor in it.

Drunk Rossweisse is best Rossweisse.

That sounds like an amusement park the Maou would come up with. And the SairaorgxCao Cao ship begins.

Why would they let Issei plant a plant with his own aura? They should know how that's going to turn out by now.

[Lord Kai]

Originally Posted by XFire

And again, no, there is literally nothing else. Kiba steps out of his way an whacks him in the side of the head and nothing else. He has no way to reverse Issei's attacks or use his power against him.



No, Fenrir stayed in the fight by breaking time stop and dodging, i.e. his speed.

Vali and Apollon wouldn't have done any better. Teleportation would dodge light blasts and Half dimension even easier than Fenrir's attacks because of travel time, and since they're slower than Fenrir they'd have a harder time getting out of the way.

What you're ignoring here is that teleportation as a dodge means everything is useless if she reacts fast enough. AOE can't catch her, spatial attacks are useless, multiple shots won't help. The only thing that matters is landing an attack before she teleports and that means speed.



And? She'd do that against anyone, and she can teleport away from ranged attacks even easier than Fenrir.

What non-linear attack do you think is going to be employed here? AOE and spatial attacks are just as useless as ranged and melee.

Issei beats her by abusing dress break to scatter Gasper and then using Nyuutron Cannon to avoid charge time. So he stops her from teleporting and nukes her before she can respond.



No it isn't. It means her attack was that powerful. Grendel is literally ground to pieces by the attack.

Hax would mean the attack couldn't be blocked by normal methods regardless of strength. PoD is just stronger pound-for-pound than normal demonic energy. She still has to deal with the enemies power and durability to kill them.

That's no different than what Cao Cao does by your logic and he's the Ultimate technique type fighter.

Breaking out of time stop has nothing to do with speed but power. Fenrir dodging her attack is something anyone could do because it's not like the speed of her attacks is incredibly fast. He just react fast after her came too close when he took too long to free himself.

Time travel? What? Also you're not taking into account of Rias fighting style. Rias only uses teleport to avoid direct close combat in order to have a battle at long range because that's what she's best at. This was shown in Shin vol. 2. Against Grayfia, she didn't bother using teleportation in their aura bombardment and against Issei she didn't use teleportation either but challenge him by using her attacks against his dragon shots. This was explained when she fought Issei.

Spoiler:

Rias does not dare to use Gasper's abilities the Beasts of darkness in a great way, to focus in the form, she is preserving stamina. Now, you can say that Rias and Gasper are in great shape for the real fight. I'm going to attack from the front! That's what I'd like, but even if I make this a close-distance fight, Rias will dive into a nearby shadow and move to another location

Of course she does use time stop on ocassion but that can avoided by avoided her 3rd eye line of sight.

Rias teleport can be countered by Vali's [Half-dimension] to restrict her movements and he can half the power of her attacks using [Divide]. Even if she caught Vali in Time stop, he could easily break out of it. Against Apollon, all his attacks are light base which is easily an advantage for Apollon. Apollon attacks can fight in close range and long range and has a variety of ways to use light attacks. Speed isn't a necessity to beat Balor Rias. Fenrir beat Rias simply by out lasting her thanks to his durability and stamina and that took a long time. Issei's beat Rias because he had abilities that could counter her via [Dress break] and [Nyuutron Canon] and beat her in no time. Having abilities that can counter Balor Rias is far more efficient. Fenrir was at a disadvantage because he has no abilities that can help counter hers. All he has is his body.

Yes, her Extinguished star was powerful because of the condensed POD. It's because her attack was POD that Grendel was destroyed. This is further explained by Cao Cao when they destroyed Ladon.

And why do you think her attacks are stronger than normal demonic power attacks? Because she has the POD trait.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

That's no different than what Cao Cao does by your logic and he's the Ultimate technique type fighter.

Cao Cao has the True Longinus, dodges attacks by reading aura, and has seven different hax abilities that he spams the shit out of. Kiba sidesteps people.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Breaking out of time stop has nothing to do with speed but power. Fenrir dodging her attack is something anyone could do because it's not like the speed of her attacks is incredibly fast. He just react fast after her came too close when he took too long to free himself.

Is this the part where you pretend reaction speed is separate from actual speed? Because you can react instantaneously and it won't mean squat if you aren't fast enough to get out of the way. Rias' attacks have an absurd AOE and were right in front of him because of time stop.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Time travel? What? Also you're not taking into account of Rias fighting style. Rias only uses teleport to avoid direct close combat in order to have a battle at long range because that's what she's best at. This was shown in Shin vol. 2. Against Grayfia, she didn't bother using teleportation in their aura bombardment and against Issei she didn't use teleportation either but challenge him by using her attacks against his dragon shots. This was explained when she fought Issei.

Spoiler:

Rias does not dare to use Gasper's abilities the Beasts of darkness in a great way, to focus in the form, she is preserving stamina. Now, you can say that Rias and Gasper are in great shape for the real fight. I'm going to attack from the front! That's what I'd like, but even if I make this a close-distance fight, Rias will dive into a nearby shadow and move to another location

Travel time. As in the time it takes to travel. As in the the time between firing an attack and the attack landing. How the hell did you get time travel from that?

Grayfia was significantly weaker than she was and Issei was on the defensive until he started using Dress Break. There was nothing to teleport away from. Also that quote says she isn't using Gaspers ability to spawn monsters, dude.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Of course she does use time stop on ocassion but that can avoided by avoided her 3rd eye line of sight.

Yeah, you just have to be fast enough to outrun her line of sight.

Out of curiosity have you ever tried that? Because the minimum speed to avoid that is like ten times faster than the person watching....if you're five feet away. It grows exponentially with distance.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Rias teleport can be countered by Vali's [Half-dimension] to restrict her movements and he can half the power of her attacks using [Divide]. Even if she caught Vali in Time stop, he could easily break out of it. Against Apollon, all his attacks are light base which is easily an advantage for Apollon. Apollon attacks can fight in close range and long range and has a variety of ways to use light attacks. Speed isn't a necessity to beat Balor Rias. Fenrir beat Rias simply by out lasting her thanks to his durability and stamina and that took a long time. Issei's beat Rias because he had abilities that could counter her via [Dress break] and [Nyuutron Canon] and beat her in no time. Having abilities that can counter Balor Rias is far more efficient. Fenrir was at a disadvantage because he has no abilities that can help counter hers. All he has is his body.

I'm confused as to what part of "Rias can teleport away from anything" is confusing to you. Any time someone launches an attack that has a chance to actually hit her, she can teleport away.

Vali uses half-dimension, she notices the aura build-up or hears him yell it, she teleports away. She is instantly not within the effective radius and isn't hit by it.

Apollon shoots a bunch of light beams from different directions. She teleports and then none of them are anywhere near her.

AOE and angles of attack don't mean shit to someone who can instantly change their position on the battlefield. The only thing that matters is hitting her before she teleports. Meaning that TRAVEL TIME, which apparently I have to explain means how long till an attack hits her, is the only relevant metric for an attack striking her.

Fenrir charging at her takes less time to reach her than either Vali or Apollon's attacks would, meaning it's harder to get away from.

Issei beat her because his ability could disrupt BP directly and launch a point blank powerful attack.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Yes, her Extinguished star was powerful because of the condensed POD. It's because her attack was POD that Grendel was destroyed. This is further explained by Cao Cao when they destroyed Ladon.

That doesn't make it hax, that means PoD is stronger than normal demonic power. It doesn't ignore an opponents defenses or powers.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

And why do you think her attacks are stronger than normal demonic power attacks? Because she has the POD trait.

That.

Is not.

HAX.

[Lord Kai]

Originally Posted by XFire

Cao Cao has the True Longinus, dodges attacks by reading aura, and has seven different hax abilities that he spams the shit out of. Kiba sidesteps people.



Is this the part where you pretend reaction speed is separate from actual speed? Because you can react instantaneously and it won't mean squat if you aren't fast enough to get out of the way. Rias' attacks have an absurd AOE and were right in front of him because of time stop.



Travel time. As in the time it takes to travel. As in the the time between firing an attack and the attack landing. How the hell did you get time travel from that?

Grayfia was significantly weaker than she was and Issei was on the defensive until he started using Dress Break. There was nothing to teleport away from. Also that quote says she isn't using Gaspers ability to spawn monsters, dude.



Yeah, you just have to be fast enough to outrun her line of sight.

Out of curiosity have you ever tried that? Because the minimum speed to avoid that is like ten times faster than the person watching....if you're five feet away. It grows exponentially with distance.



I'm confused as to what part of "Rias can teleport away from anything" is confusing to you. Any time someone launches an attack that has a chance to actually hit her, she can teleport away.

Vali uses half-dimension, she notices the aura build-up or hears him yell it, she teleports away. She is instantly not within the effective radius and isn't hit by it.

Apollon shoots a bunch of light beams from different directions. She teleports and then none of them are anywhere near her.

AOE and angles of attack don't mean shit to someone who can instantly change their position on the battlefield. The only thing that matters is hitting her before she teleports. Meaning that TRAVEL TIME, which apparently I have to explain means how long till an attack hits her, is the only relevant metric for an attack striking her.

Fenrir charging at her takes less time to reach her than either Vali or Apollon's attacks would, meaning it's harder to get away from.

Issei beat her because his ability could disrupt BP directly and launch a point blank powerful attack.



That doesn't make it hax, that means PoD is stronger than normal demonic power. It doesn't ignore an opponents defenses or powers.



That.

Is not.

HAX.

Just like Cao Cao has variety of abilities, Kiba has his variety of swords that he uses at his disposal. Again, this is shown in his sparring match against Issei.

(A body blow from a short-range! Unlike me, Kiba has nothing on his body. In terms of defence, I have an overwhelming advantage. I also have higher attack power as well. If it hits, then my chance of winning will increase!

But…

GAKIN!

I heard the sound of metals colliding. Kiba made the pommel of his sword strike like a bowling ball, and he smacked my helmet from the side.

Maybe he foresaw my body blow, so Kiba used a counter on me!

…..Possibly due to being hit on the head, my consciousness and sight became warpy for a moment….. I had my brain shaken.

So if he can’t hurt me with a direct blow to the outside of my head, he decided to aim for the inside instead.

Kiba’s counter is very effective for close-range fighters. I have received it many times, and Xenovia also received it many times as well.

I’m always on alert, but I can’t predict how and where he will counter attack because it always changes.

But I never thought he would use his pommel like that…. I thought that by closing my distance with him to where he wouldn’t be able to wield his sword it would stop him from responding to my attack…..

I can’t be hit like that again, so I decided to leave my current position and step back. But…..

I had my foot frozen, and I had myself connected with the ground.

“-It’s the holy-demonic sword of Ice.”

Kiba has a sword made from ice within his hand. With this, I got my legs sealed and I won’t be able to escape!

SPARKLE! SPARKLE!

And another sword. In his other hand, he has a holy-demonic sword covered with electricity…

A holy-sword of lightning! So he’s planning to use that to electrify me inside my armour!)

So again, Kiba does more than just dodge and hit. He exploit openings and uses counters. What Kiba does is no different than Cao Cao. They fight the same way.

All Fenrir did was twist his body around to avoid Rias attack. That's not incredible speed.

Rias attacks wasn't getting anywhere since Issei canceled them out and she couldn't get him in time stop since he knew to stay out of her line of sight. Teleportation in the shadows would've been useful in that situation if she used it tactically. She already was at a disadvantage due to she has a lesser time limit than he does. As you once said, Rias was fighting a uphill battle here. Was Issei on the defensive? I don't know but if you want to see it that way.

Rias has to slip through into shadow to teleport away. Hard to do that if she's in midair. Vali's half-dimension would catch her before he gets away. Apollon can trap her in a cage of light. There's no shadow to escape into if she's in a cage of pure light. And as a devil, just being trapped in a cage of light would seriously damage her.

Fenrir traveling faster than any of Apollon or Vali's attack would depends. Both Apollon and Vali can move at god like speed just like Fenrir can and since this is 80% Fenrir than it's debatable if Fenrir is faster. Apollon and Vali can fire their attacks while moving at god-like. The difference is they can counter Rias while Fenrir can't.

That's exactly my point. Issei had abilities that can counter Balor Rias. Hence Dress break and Pailigual.

The fact that you need aura to block POD prove it's hax otherwise you would not come out of it unscathed.

[Femt0]

@Xfire I assume you both talking about DxD Vali, and if that's the case then Vali has clearly the advantage against Rias BP. Vali's SG whole gimmick is his speed, he can outrun Rias eye sight with ease if he did that to Crom who only manage to hit Vali due to “Intuition". And even he can't dodge Vali demonic blast attacks which what it looks like moves at a equal or similar speed than him.

Vali disappeared from that spot with godlike speed. The abnormal speed was beyond perception, and it was probably difficult to keep track of his presence as well. However, Crom didn’t waver as he thrust his fist out as if it were only natural. Don! A blunt sound emanated from his fist as Vali was hit! Unexpectedly, Crom didn’t use his eyes to keep track of Vali, and he didn’t seem to have detected Vali’s presence either. After a moment of hesitation, Vali immediately recomposed himself, and moved at a godlike speed once again. This time, he unleashed the aura of Lucifer at a velocity that couldn’t be perceived with the naked eye! Crom took a direct hit from the aura of Lucifer and was forced to stop.

“…You can attack me. So doesn’t that mean you can see me?”

“No, I can’t see. I can’t even block or evade your aura.”

“Then, how are you able to hit me?”

Crom replied as if it were only natural

“Intuition.”

In order to avoid Vali's direct attack and demonic blasts she would need to pre empt activate her teleport which is a bad idea for here since it consumes stamina, and she can't really stop Vali more than once with here time stop. Since let's say Vali transforms then she immediately activates time stop Vali breaks out with his aura and immediately banishes from sight , then since she can't see him or his attacks,she will be hit by him unless she starts to spam teleport until she rounds out of stamina. she seems to have a delay on here time stop otherwise Fenrir would had been stuck in a loop of time stop and would have received direct hit from her. If anything Vali will have it easy against Rias than any other opponent.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Just like Cao Cao has variety of abilities, Kiba has his variety of swords that he uses at his disposal. Again, this is shown in his sparring match against Issei.

(A body blow from a short-range! Unlike me, Kiba has nothing on his body. In terms of defence, I have an overwhelming advantage. I also have higher attack power as well. If it hits, then my chance of winning will increase!

But…

GAKIN!

I heard the sound of metals colliding. Kiba made the pommel of his sword strike like a bowling ball, and he smacked my helmet from the side.

Maybe he foresaw my body blow, so Kiba used a counter on me!

…..Possibly due to being hit on the head, my consciousness and sight became warpy for a moment….. I had my brain shaken.

So if he can’t hurt me with a direct blow to the outside of my head, he decided to aim for the inside instead.

Kiba’s counter is very effective for close-range fighters. I have received it many times, and Xenovia also received it many times as well.

I’m always on alert, but I can’t predict how and where he will counter attack because it always changes.

But I never thought he would use his pommel like that…. I thought that by closing my distance with him to where he wouldn’t be able to wield his sword it would stop him from responding to my attack…..

I can’t be hit like that again, so I decided to leave my current position and step back. But…..

I had my foot frozen, and I had myself connected with the ground.

“-It’s the holy-demonic sword of Ice.”

Kiba has a sword made from ice within his hand. With this, I got my legs sealed and I won’t be able to escape!

SPARKLE! SPARKLE!

And another sword. In his other hand, he has a holy-demonic sword covered with electricity…

A holy-sword of lightning! So he’s planning to use that to electrify me inside my armour!)

So again, Kiba does more than just dodge and hit. He exploit openings and uses counters. What Kiba does is no different than Cao Cao. They fight the same way.

And none of those are hax, and none of those nullify or reverse Issei's power, and the only damage he does is literally sidestepping and whacking him in the head. K.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

All Fenrir did was twist his body around to avoid Rias attack. That's not incredible speed.

He escaped a point blank explosion 100 meters across, dude.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Rias attacks wasn't getting anywhere since Issei canceled them out and she couldn't get him in time stop since he knew to stay out of her line of sight. Teleportation in the shadows would've been useful in that situation if she used it tactically. She already was at a disadvantage due to she has a lesser time limit than he does. As you once said, Rias was fighting a uphill battle here. Was Issei on the defensive? I don't know but if you want to see it that way.

No it wouldn't. Issei was firing defensively the whole time, he didn't go on the defensive until he used Dress Break. There was nothing to port away from.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Rias has to slip through into shadow to teleport away. Hard to do that if she's in midair. Vali's half-dimension would catch her before he gets away. Apollon can trap her in a cage of light. There's no shadow to escape into if she's in a cage of pure light. And as a devil, just being trapped in a cage of light would seriously damage her.

How exactly are they supposed to get her into the air? She doesn't have to move to dodge their attacks.

And neither of them can land these abilities you think would interfere with her porting before she actually ports.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Fenrir traveling faster than any of Apollon or Vali's attack would depends. Both Apollon and Vali can move at god like speed just like Fenrir can and since this is 80% Fenrir than it's debatable if Fenrir is faster. Apollon and Vali can fire their attacks while moving at god-like. The difference is they can counter Rias while Fenrir can't.

No, it isn't. That's Fenrir's entire gimmick and the only reason he's placed as high as he is in universe. He can't do anything to anyone faster than him but is still top ten. His speed is well past a generic god, and Crom has never been that fast. Issei and Vali were faster than him pre-DxD.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

That's exactly my point. Issei had abilities that can counter Balor Rias. Hence Dress break and Pailigual.

Which are unique to him and actual counters to BP as opposed to "can hit big area."

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

The fact that you need aura to block POD prove it's hax otherwise you would not come out of it unscathed.

No, you don't. Kokabiel and Grendel took it with their bodies.

[Lord Kai]

Originally Posted by XFire

And none of those are hax, and none of those nullify or reverse Issei's power, and the only damage he does is literally sidestepping and whacking him in the head. K.



He escaped a point blank explosion 100 meters across, dude.



No it wouldn't. Issei was firing defensively the whole time, he didn't go on the defensive until he used Dress Break. There was nothing to port away from.



How exactly are they supposed to get her into the air? She doesn't have to move to dodge their attacks.

And neither of them can land these abilities you think would interfere with her porting before she actually ports.



No, it isn't. That's Fenrir's entire gimmick and the only reason he's placed as high as he is in universe. He can't do anything to anyone faster than him but is still top ten. His speed is well past a generic god, and Crom has never been that fast. Issei and Vali were faster than him pre-DxD.



Which are unique to him and actual counters to BP as opposed to "can hit big area."



No, you don't. Kokabiel and Grendel took it with their bodies.

It's the variety of abilities that Kiba's swords that's the point. This is why Xenovia had to learn how to use more technique type abilities by using Excalibur abilities.

Rias attack didn't create an explosion and nothing was stated Fenrir dodge a the radius of her attack. All that was stated was he twisted his body around and her attack missed.

They both fired attacks that canceled each other out. The only thing Issei did defensively was avoid her 3rd eye to not get caught in time stop.

She doesn't have to move to dodge? She has to slip into the shadows to teleport. As far as we've seen she only does that if she's on a solid surface like on top of a building.

If she's in midair it would. Rias has never shown she can teleport in midair. The only one who has shown to do that is Cao Cao but that's because he has the True Longinus.

Fenrir's speed is only one of the things that makes him dangerous but the main reason why he's placed in the top 10 is because of his fangs which can kill gods. The next best thing would be his durability and power. Speed alone wouldn't place him in the top 10 otherwise Kiba would be in the top 10.

The point is having abilities that can counter Balor Rias. For example, say if Balor Rias fought Rizevim. He could beat her just as easily with sacred gear cancellor.

Kokabiel had to place aura around his hands to block Rias attack and even then he still took damage. Grendel only had his body everything except half his head remained.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

It's the variety of abilities that Kiba's swords that's the point. This is why Xenovia had to learn how to use more technique type abilities by using Excalibur abilities.

Your argument was that he qualified under the definition Azazel raised, of being able to use the enemies power against them. He can't do that and relies on his own power to actually do damage.

So when he hits Issei, he has to have enough power to actually hurt him.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Rias attack didn't create an explosion and nothing was stated Fenrir dodge a the radius of her attack. All that was stated was he twisted his body around and her attack missed.

The explosion covered several hundred meters, buddy.

The attack which passed through empty air caused everything in its vicinity to be annihilated. The area with a radius of a few hundred metres had been completely eradicated.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

They both fired attacks that canceled each other out. The only thing Issei did defensively was avoid her 3rd eye to not get caught in time stop.

Issei was shooting down her blasts, not the other way around. He was the one looking for an opening.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

She doesn't have to move to dodge? She has to slip into the shadows to teleport. As far as we've seen she only does that if she's on a solid surface like on top of a building.

Or in the rubble around the battlefield or on the buildings broken by the fight or literally anywhere else in their fight.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

If she's in midair it would. Rias has never shown she can teleport in midair. The only one who has shown to do that is Cao Cao but that's because he has the True Longinus.

First, you have to prove that the limitation exists, not the other way around.

Second, why would she be in the air?

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Fenrir's speed is only one of the things that makes him dangerous but the main reason why he's placed in the top 10 is because of his fangs which can kill gods. The next best thing would be his durability and power. Speed alone wouldn't place him in the top 10 otherwise Kiba would be in the top 10.

His fangs are useless if he can't hit anyone and his lack of range means they're his only weapon. Yet he's in the top ten. His own physical strength is practically irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

The point is having abilities that can counter Balor Rias. For example, say if Balor Rias fought Rizevim. He could beat her just as easily with sacred gear cancellor.

No, certain specific abilities can counter her. The only ones you've brought up are Issei and his unique abilities and the guy who shuts off SG's.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Kokabiel had to place aura around his hands to block Rias attack and even then he still took damage. Grendel only had his body everything except half his head remained.

He blocked it with his hand and Grendel was ground to dust by force.

It's not hax.

[Lord Kai]

Originally Posted by XFire

Your argument was that he qualified under the definition Azazel raised, of being able to use the enemies power against them. He can't do that and relies on his own power to actually do damage.

So when he hits Issei, he has to have enough power to actually hurt him.



The explosion covered several hundred meters, buddy.





Issei was shooting down her blasts, not the other way around. He was the one looking for an opening.



Or in the rubble around the battlefield or on the buildings broken by the fight or literally anywhere else in their fight.



First, you have to prove that the limitation exists, not the other way around.

Second, why would she be in the air?



His fangs are useless if he can't hit anyone and his lack of range means they're his only weapon. Yet he's in the top ten. His own physical strength is practically irrelevant.



No, certain specific abilities can counter her. The only ones you've brought up are Issei and his unique abilities and the guy who shuts off SG's.



He blocked it with his hand and Grendel was ground to dust by force.

It's not hax.

Azazel also mentioned counters to which Kiba does. Kiba uses his variety of swords to create openings.

Okay and? Fenrir never dodged the radius. Remember that Fenrir was in midair when he dodged Rias attack and since he can't fly, all he could do was twist his body around to avoid it. So how could he escape the radius if he's in mid air? The answer is Rias attack kept going after it missed Fenrir until it hit the ground to which destroy a radius. Nothing is stated there was an explosion.

The fight started off with them launching their attacks that canceled each other out before Issei tried to use Dress break the first time. When that failed, they launched attacks again that canceled each other out again. After that Issei went on the defensive by avoiding her time stop. That's the only time he was defensive.

Whether it's rubble or buildings doesn't change the fact she still needs a solid surface.

That's a no limit fallacy. We've seen Rias Balor form in 3 fights and none of those times where shown she can teleport in mid air. Every time we're shown or its stated she needs a shadow nearby to teleport through.

Again, I said his speed is one of the things that makes him dangerous but his fangs are the main reason. Fenrir is known because his fangs can kill gods not because he's a fast wolf. Having speed is pointless if you're attacks are weak. You just made Crom an example to prove my point. Just as you said, he's not particularly a fast character but what makes him so strong is his power and durability. Vali is much faster than Crom and yet he was struggling against Crom. Kiba was faster than DxD Issei and yet his attacks could hardly so any damage to Issei armor.

I've brought up Rizevim to prove abilities other than Issei can counter her. Vali's abilities can counter her and so could Cao Cao in BxB.

Kokabiel didn't use his hare hands dude. He had to use aura to cover them.

(The fallen-angel leader laughed as if he was truly enjoying it. His expression was coloured in ecstasy. He was feeling……pleasure for War!

“Blow awaaaaaaaaay!”

From Buchou's hand, the highest amount of the block of demonic power was shot out covered in the power of destruction!

GOOOOOOOOON!

It made a shock wave that felt like it shook the ground, and the powerful shot was heading towards Kokabiel. With his hand…… No, with both his hands put in front of him, he tried to deflect it.

“Interesting! Interesting indeed, Maou’s sister!”

On Kokabiel’s hand, the energy of the fallen angels, the power of light gathered.)

Grendel didn't have anything to cover his body and as a result his body was destroyed. CxC Issei and BxB Sairaorg had to work together to do something that Rias did on her own despite her being weaker overall.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Azazel also mentioned counters to which Kiba does. Kiba uses his variety of swords to create openings.

Which is again beside the point because we were discussing why Kiba could get through the armor. He does so with his own power, end of story.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Okay and? Fenrir never dodged the radius. Remember that Fenrir was in midair when he dodged Rias attack and since he can't fly, all he could do was twist his body around to avoid it. So how could he escape the radius if he's in mid air? The answer is Rias attack kept going after it missed Fenrir until it hit the ground to which destroy a radius. Nothing is stated there was an explosion.

............Are you being serious here?

"The attack vaporized everything in a giant radius"

"Yeah but there wasn't an explosion"

The narration literally states after that that just dodging isn't enough because Rias can control her shots. He's dodging the blast radius.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

The fight started off with them launching their attacks that canceled each other out before Issei tried to use Dress break the first time. When that failed, they launched attacks again that canceled each other out again. After that Issei went on the defensive by avoiding her time stop. That's the only time he was defensive.

Issei was firing at her attacks, not actually shooting at her.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Whether it's rubble or buildings doesn't change the fact she still needs a solid surface.

You haven't seen much rubble, have you?

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

That's a no limit fallacy. We've seen Rias Balor form in 3 fights and none of those times where shown she can teleport in mid air. Every time we're shown or its stated she needs a shadow nearby to teleport through.

That's not what that fallacy means in the slightest. Rias can teleport. No limitations have been stated on location. If you want to say there is one, you have to prove it.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Again, I said his speed is one of the things that makes him dangerous but his fangs are the main reason. Fenrir is known because his fangs can kill gods not because he's a fast wolf. Having speed is pointless if you're attacks are weak. You just made Crom an example to prove my point. Just as you said, he's not particularly a fast character but what makes him so strong is his power and durability. Vali is much faster than Crom and yet he was struggling against Crom. Kiba was faster than DxD Issei and yet his attacks could hardly so any damage to Issei armor.

Yeah no. Crom disproves your point. He's slower than CxC and EJOD but can still move fast enough to strike Vali. Vali isn't anywhere near the same speed as Fenrir.

And Kiba put a hole through Issei's armor.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

I've brought up Rizevim to prove abilities other than Issei can counter her. Vali's abilities can counter her and so could Cao Cao in BxB.

No they can't. Neither of them can hit her before she ports.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Kokabiel didn't use his hare hands dude. He had to use aura to cover them.

(The fallen-angel leader laughed as if he was truly enjoying it. His expression was coloured in ecstasy. He was feeling……pleasure for War!

“Blow awaaaaaaaaay!”

From Buchou's hand, the highest amount of the block of demonic power was shot out covered in the power of destruction!

GOOOOOOOOON!

It made a shock wave that felt like it shook the ground, and the powerful shot was heading towards Kokabiel. With his hand…… No, with both his hands put in front of him, he tried to deflect it.

“Interesting! Interesting indeed, Maou’s sister!”

On Kokabiel’s hand, the energy of the fallen angels, the power of light gathered.)

Grendel didn't have anything to cover his body and as a result his body was destroyed. CxC Issei and BxB Sairaorg had to work together to do something that Rias did on her own despite her being weaker overall.

That's not aura, buddy.

And Rias' Extinquish Star is that powerful. It's literally used as a measuring stick for Sirzechs. This isn't DBZ where people have a basic benchmark based off of power level. Kiba's speed is greater than some top ten characters but his durability is crap. Rias' power in her special moves is ridiculously high but most her physical stats are at the level of a high demon.