High School DxD Light Novel - Character power-ups, match-ups, and ratings

[B214]

Well Vali can probably still defeat most high class Devils without his DD though.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by XFire

He isn't as strong without his such and such. Vali without his DD isn't even Maou class. His natural abilities are far below those of a Super Devil like Rizeviem or Sirzechs, but having DD and Albion puts him at their level.

This is why people keep poking fun at Issei for his bases being crap.

But saying Vali wouldn't be a Super Devil without his Longinus when it is something he was born with and naturally use is as pointless as saying that Sirzechs is nothing without POD.

It's something used to make certain characters seem weaker. Yes I know that Vali wouldn't be as strong as he is without Divine Dividing. I just don't understand what people get at when they say that as they would then have to apply it to someone who has a certain ability or power.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

But saying Vali wouldn't be a Super Devil without his Longinus when it is something he was born with and naturally use is as pointless as saying that Sirzechs is nothing without POD.

It's something used to make certain characters seem weaker. Yes I know that Vali wouldn't be as strong as he is without Divine Dividing. I just don't understand what people get at when they say that as they would then have to apply it to someone who has a certain ability or power.

It's not, actually. Sacred Gears are functionally equipment. We measure Vidar separately based on whether or not he has his boots, remember?

It's the difference between measuring a guy based on whether or not he has the sword he's trained with his whole life, or whether or not his hands are still attached.

Like, we actually got to see Issei and Vali forced into situations where they couldn't call on their Longinuses at will and their power dropped like a rock.

[Lucidrago]

Again you would have to use that standard for every single character then.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Again you would have to use that standard for every single character then.

Every single one with a Sacred Gear, sure. They aren't the same as other natural abilities, though.

[aw454wtr]

Can we drop the Issei has crap base, vol 14 he is already strong enough to break magic circles without using BG

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by XFire

Every single one with a Sacred Gear, sure. They aren't the same as other natural abilities, though.

How is that? Most of the possessors were born with their Sacred Gears thus it counts as an ability as much as POD or Worthlessness does. It wouldn't be an inherited ability but It's still something they're born with nonetheless.

It counts as a natural ability in my book.

[B214]

Let's see. Kiba can use a sword without his SGs. Can Ise use his demonic power as well as when he has the BG without it. That's one thing we can measure, how much of their ability came from their SG how much came from their own effort. Either way, a person who doesn't train can't shoot a gun, so in the end the effort is dependent on the user not weapon.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by aw454wtr

Can we drop the Issei has crap base, vol 14 he is already strong enough to break magic circles without using BG

Vol 14 is where we see that despite his CxC form being at least Maou class, Issei's base is just barely in middle class territory with his dragon transformation move.

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

How is that? Most of the possessors were born with their Sacred Gears thus it counts as an ability as much as POD or Worthlessness does. It wouldn't be an inherited ability but It's still something they're born with nonetheless.

It counts as a natural ability in my book.

Because it's still something fundamentally separate from them that acts as a power multiplier. Hence why Issei himself still gets poked by Ddraig for his base form and why Vali reaching Maou class is a big deal.

[Lex79]

This time I agree with Lucidrago. Sacred gratis users possess them since birth and we saw that removibile them can cause the death of the possessor. They are much more like an inherent ability than equipment.

[Lucidrago]

@Xfire That's because the Boosted Gear largely raises his stats and he needs to raise his stats.

Do you think you need to raise your physical traits or magical traits with Zenith Tempest or True Longinus to bring out their power? No because they aren't stat-raisers like the Boosted Gear that doubles your power every ten seconds.

Still Boosted Gear is still something Issei was born with and shouldn't be excluded when talking about how strong he is.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

@Xfire That's because the Boosted Gear largely raises his stats and he needs to raise his stats.

Do you think you need to raise your physical traits or magical traits with Zenith Tempest or True Longinus to bring out their power? No because they aren't stat-raisers like the Boosted Gear that doubles your power every ten seconds.

Still Boosted Gear is still something Issei was born with and shouldn't be excluded when talking about how strong he is.

We see Vali without being able to use DD as well and he drops nearly as significantly.

Also Cao Cao had to train his ass off to use the spear effectively. His fighting style revolves around never getting hit ever against people that are faster than he is.

Also Indra does at one point take the True Longinus from Cao Cao and makes him train to get it back.

Anyway, I'm just pointing out that Sacred Gears as a whole are closer to weapons than intrinsic powers like Sorzechs PoD.

[Tbolt]

Originally Posted by Lex79

This time I agree with Lucidrago. Sacred gratis users possess them since birth and we saw that removibile them can cause the death of the possessor. They are much more like an inherent ability than equipment.

In no way are they a inherent ability, since at the users death the SG moves to a new host. And the Grigori was stated to be able to remove SG's without the holder dieing.

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by B214

Well Vali can probably still defeat most high class Devils without his DD though.

He could probably defeat most normal ultimate class ones too.

[Blazor 98]

Of all the girls in Issei's harem, who would you say is placed in the top 3 strongest? (No collaboration such as Balor Rias or Xenovia CDD)

[Hakai]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Of all the girls in Issei's harem, who would you say is placed in the top 3 strongest? (No collaboration such as Balor Rias or Xenovia CDD)

IMO

Xenovia(with scabbard)
Rossweisse(with Misteltein)
Koneko

Rias probably is on their tier but lacks 1 vs 1 feats. Ingvild absolutely destroys everyone in terms of potential though, but her current level in 1 vs 1 is unknown, especially against non Dragon opponents so I'm not ranking her for now.

[Lucidrago]

Kind of impossible to judge as Ishibumi really doesn't show a lot of most of them and we don't know what they're fully capable of.

For all intents and purposes I would say Rossweisse due to her already powerful offensive magic, her powerful defense, her being able to seal most anything, and her sheer competence with Norse magic. And then that's only enhanced by her Mistelteinn wand. And her natural traits as a rook boost her offensive and defensive magic.

In my view, Rossweisse has versatility due to the sheer range of the magic she knows how to do. I would say she would be the strongest out of all of them.

Yes Xenovia has Avalon but if she faces certain opponents, Avalon can be made worthless. And besides Avalon hasn't improved her power or her swordsmanship. It ensures she won't take damage from any attack even if It's the attack of a god. But in my opinion, while It's a HUGE advantage it's just too limited in my view.

And Xenovia does wield two powerful holy swords. Durandal can cut anything. And Excalibur has seven unique abilities and each of them can give the possessor quite the edge in a battle. But while Xenovia can use four of the abilities at once(Destruction, Mimic, Rapidly, and Transparency), we don't know to what extent she can use Ruler, and she hasn't used Nightmare or Blessing(well that's basically a support ability).

Well I would say that Rossweisse is the strongest in my opinion. But It's also valid to say Xenovia the strongest. And then some other girl people may see as the strongest. So it's very subjective. And from my own subjective lenses, I see Rossweisse as the strongest with Xenovia as a probable second.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Of all the girls in Issei's harem, who would you say is placed in the top 3 strongest? (No collaboration such as Balor Rias or Xenovia CDD)

1. Ophis
2. Lilith
3. Crom

But more seriously, I'd actually agree with Lucidrago to a certain degree here.

Don't look at me like that.

Anyway, in the last translated bit, Rose's barriers were implied to be strong enough to actually slow down Apollo if he got past their fighters. Provided that's true, Rose would be able to defeat Xenovia via sealing. Her general versatility and firepower, especially post Mistelltein, are also extremely high at this point, enough that Brynhildr considers Rose flat out superior to her.

That said, from an enemy's perspective as opposed to a fight between members, Xenovia is much worse of an opponent to fight because nothing but sealing would work on her. You can't blast her, can't tire her out, can't use light, can't even trap her in traditional ways because even Apollo only slowed her down for a bit. Scabbard is hax, pls don't nerf.

After that....it probably is Koneko at this point, like Hakai said. Her purification powers and that massive physical boost (friendly reminder Kuroka is Ultimate class and couldn't see her move) are above what the others have shown at this point.

I should note that the above rests on Roygun not actually being part of the harem since I'm pretty sure she's stronger than Koneko at least.

[sbh1fr]

By the way. Isnt rose alrealy op even without mistltein. I mean compared to other valkyries that should be elite valkyrie chosen for the match, but their strength was evaluated at about 2 tournament pawn pieces. While Rossweise was evaluated to be worth 4 pieces (in game against sitri sona in dx 4 i think).

[Darksider555]

It seems that the Valkyrie's other then Brynhildr are around High Class Devil power since 2 pawn pieces are worth that much as we see with Ravel or High Class vampire like Elme.

Rossweisse & Brynhildr around mid class ultimate class devil power since high tier Ultimate class like Bikou are worth 5 pawns like Saji & Regulus.