High School DxD Light Novel - Character power-ups, match-ups, and ratings

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Norn

Hold up. Vali's armor got wrecked by prime Strada iirc. Or was it old Strada?

Some small questions: Do we have data that suggests that EJOD is comparable to BDtB? We know that BDtB + touki makes Sairaorg's defense pretty good, but do we know if the quantity and quality of the touki is affected by the fact that BDtB is costing Sairaorg some life force when used? In the case it comes a prolonged battle, who benefits the most?

Do we have anything that puts BDtB anywhere near EJOD, which is specifically noted to be on the lower rings of God class?

Did I miss something significant in the side volume? Because beating up a Maou-class doesn't out him on the level of a stronger Juggernaut Drive.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by XFire

Do we have anything that puts BDtB anywhere near EJOD, which is specifically noted to be on the lower rings of God class?

Did I miss something significant in the side volume? Because beating up a Maou-class doesn't out him on the level of a stronger Juggernaut Drive.

It really depends because forms have different compatibility. Considering how (BDTB) Sairaorg dominated Bedeze so easily who was Maou-class, he would definitely be easily above (CxC) Issei. Each of Sairaorg's punches equal to Issei's Crimson Blaster? It wouldn't be much of a stretch to say he has more raw power than EJOD Vali.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

It really depends because forms have different compatibility. Considering how (BDTB) Sairaorg dominated Bedeze so easily who was Maou-class, he would definitely be easily above (CxC) Issei. Each of Sairaorg's punches equal to Issei's Crimson Blaster? It wouldn't be much of a stretch to say he has more raw power than EJOD Vali.

EJOD is significantly above CxC. Again, it reaches into God-class.

Jumping from Maou to God-class is a massive leap, so his performance against Bedeze doesn't really justify him fighting someone who can face down Vali in his silver armor.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by XFire

EJOD is significantly above CxC. Again, it reaches into God-class.

Jumping from Maou to God-class is a massive leap, so his performance against Bedeze doesn't really justify him fighting someone who can face down Vali in his silver armor.

My argument is base in the fact how Sairaorg dominated Bedeze. Now if the fight was close between Sairaorg and Bedeze than yeah I can agree with you but the fact that Bedeze couldn't do anything to Sairaorg shows the massive gap between him and someone Maou class. Sairaorg base is no doubt stronger Vali's base. The edge I would give EJOD Vali would be speed and ability but in terms of power and defense I would give it to Sairaorg. Especially when you factor in his touki.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

My argument is base in the fact how Sairaorg dominated Bedeze. Now if the fight was close between Sairaorg and Bedeze than yeah I can agree with you but the fact that Bedeze couldn't do anything to Sairaorg shows the massive gap between him and someone Maou class. Sairaorg base is no doubt stronger Vali's base. The edge I would give EJOD Vali would be speed and ability but in terms of power and defense I would give it to Sairaorg. Especially when you factor in his touki.

EJOD.

IS.

GOD-CLASS.

Dominating a Maou-Class is great and all, but Issei took down someone whose base was comparable to Grayfia, while said person was using Boosted Gear Scale Mail, in CxC. Which is inferior to EJOD by a large margin.

The base forms don't really matter at this point. Vali is literally in another class entirely.

[Darksider555]

Well we don't know if the spoilers about the EJOD nerf are true.

That's really the crux of the argument.

Saioraorg with BtB could be God Class as well.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Darksider555

Well we don't know if the spoilers about the EJOD nerf are true.

That's really the crux of the argument.

Saioraorg with BtB could be God Class as well.

We know they aren't. It's literally never come up at all in the novel. So the argument is moot.

And no, unless it's explicitly stated or shows him going up against a God-class, then he's stuck with what he's shown. Which is at most comparable to CxC, at the upper limits of Maou class.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by XFire

We know they aren't. It's literally never come up at all in the novel. So the argument is moot.

And no, unless it's explicitly stated or shows him going up against a God-class, then he's stuck with what he's shown. Which is at most comparable to CxC, at the upper limits of Maou class.

How is it comparable to CxC? Issei had a hard time against Baraqiel in CxC and Baraqiel is no higher than Maou class. Not to mention Issei was struggling against BxB Sairaorg in CxC

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

How is it comparable to CxC? Issei had a hard time against Baraqiel in CxC and Baraqiel is no higher than Maou class. Not to mention Issei was struggling against BxB Sairaorg in CxC

Issei "had a hard time" after being completely exhausted from using DxD, against someone who fights while clad in the most powerful angelic attack in the series, and blatantly had the upper hand.

Again, Issei using CxC for the first time dominated Sairong until his mother came to him, and then still beat him unconscious.

Elucid, a high-end Maou class wearing BG Scale Mail, lost to CxC later on because of Issei's various abilities and Longinus Smasher.

EJOD is decisively above CxC in every way.

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

How is it comparable to CxC? Issei had a hard time against Baraqiel in CxC and Baraqiel is no higher than Maou class. Not to mention Issei was struggling against BxB Sairaorg in CxC

When Issei was fighting Baraqiel he was pretty much spent from using the DxD form so thats bad example.

[Lex79]

Issei gave it all to defeat Sairaorg and stated himself that he would have lost if he let his guard down for the slightest moment. It's the very definition of a close fight. While I concede that at that time the Crimson Queen was incomplete, it's not a stretch to think that Sairaorg too has improved, and Breakdon the Beast should be a lot more powerful than Balance Breaker.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Lex79

Issei gave it all to defeat Sairaorg and stated himself that he would have lost if he let his guard down for the slightest moment. It's the very definition of a close fight. While I concede that at that time the Crimson Queen was incomplete, it's not a stretch to think that Sairaorg too has improved, and Breakdon the Beast should be a lot more powerful than Balance Breaker.

That was the first time he used it, and it only turned into that close fight after Ise trashed Sairong and his mother showed up to give him a second wind.

BDtB has been shown to be more powerful than a Maou-class, but CxC beat an opponent stronger than that Maou who was also wearing an artificial Longinus. Saying it matches up with CxC is being generous, since it implies Sairong would be able to survive Longinus Smasher.

EJOD is decisively above CxC, even at that stage, to the point he fought a HD-class opponent and wasn't immediately overwhelmed.

There is far too big a gap in both feats and statements to suggest Sairong can match EJOD. And Strada straight up punked Vali in this armor, to the point he acknowledged he'd need DxD to actually finish Strada.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by XFire

That was the first time he used it, and it only turned into that close fight after Ise trashed Sairong and his mother showed up to give him a second wind.

BDtB has been shown to be more powerful than a Maou-class, but CxC beat an opponent stronger than that Maou who was also wearing an artificial Longinus. Saying it matches up with CxC is being generous, since it implies Sairong would be able to survive Longinus Smasher.

EJOD is decisively above CxC, even at that stage, to the point he fought a HD-class opponent and wasn't immediately overwhelmed.

There is far too big a gap in both feats and statements to suggest Sairong can match EJOD. And Strada straight up punked Vali in this armor, to the point he acknowledged he'd need DxD to actually finish Strada.

The fight between Issei (CxC) and Sairaorg (BxB) was close. Issei constantly had to repair his armor after every hit that Sairaorg nailed him with. Crimson Blaster was his only way to do a decisive damage but even that didn't completely finish him.

Prior to getting his DxD L, Vali was just as helpless as Issei was when he fought a HD-class dragon. Vali's Compression Divider only canceled out one attack from Azi which completely drained him. He really did no better than Issei.

Also note that Vali admitted that Diehauser would be a tough opponent even for him.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

The fight between Issei (CxC) and Sairaorg (BxB) was close. Issei constantly had to repair his armor after every hit that Sairaorg nailed him with. Crimson Blaster was his only way to do a decisive damage but even that didn't completely finish him.

Prior to getting his DxD L, Vali was just as helpless as Issei was when he fought a HD-class dragon. Vali's Compression Divider only canceled out one attack from Azi which completely drained him. He really did no better than Issei.

Also note that Vali admitted that Diehauser would be a tough opponent even for him.

After he got his second wind following Ise laying him out, sure. And this was still the weakest version of CxC we ever see.

Vali canceled out a massive barrage of Azi Dahaka's forbidden techniques, the strongest spells he uses.

Also I really hope you aren't trying to suggest Sairong is remotely comparable to Diehauser. The guy who upon coming back took out multiple God-class teams. That would be silly.

I notice you aren't even trying to justify the Elucid problem, btw.

The fact that BDtB's attacks are compared to Crimson Blaster, Ise's basic attack in CxC, as a sign of how powerful it is, should be pretty informative as to Sairongs position relative to Vali, whose EJOD is significantly above CxC.

[Royalknightftw]

Originally Posted by Norn

Hold up. Vali's armor got wrecked by prime Strada iirc. Or was it old Strada?

Some small questions: Do we have data that suggests that EJOD is comparable to BDtB? We know that BDtB + touki makes Sairaorg's defense pretty good, but do we know if the quantity and quality of the touki is affected by the fact that BDtB is costing Sairaorg some life force when used? In the case it comes a prolonged battle, who benefits the most?

It was done by prime strada

[Blazor 98]

An interesting matchup

Vali (DxD L) vs Rizevim

[DragonOsman]

I'm with XFire on CxC Ise compared to Emperio Juggernaut Overdrive Vali. Ise in CxC is Maou-class and Vali in his silver armor is (at least) low-tier God-class. And CxC back when Ise used it against Sairaorg in Volume 10 was unstable. It's still incomplete now since the power output still isn't where it needs to be, so let's not use "it was incomplete back then" as an argument. And Sairaorg in Breakdown the Beast isn't confirmed to be that far above Maou-class even though his base is far above Vali's, so let's wait and see if it's God-class before we say if Sairaorg can beat Vali in Emperio Juggernaut Overdrive.

[AP24]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

I'm with XFire on CxC Ise compared to Emperio Juggernaut Overdrive Vali. Ise in CxC is Maou-class and Vali in his silver armor is (at least) low-tier God-class. And CxC back when Ise used it against Sairaorg in Volume 10 was unstable. It's still incomplete now since the power output still isn't where it needs to be, so let's not use "it was incomplete back then" as an argument. And Sairaorg in Breakdown the Beast isn't confirmed to be that far above Maou-class even though his base is far above Vali's, so let's wait and see if it's God-class before we say if Sairaorg can beat Vali in Emperio Juggernaut Overdrive.

Issei's CxC form is now already stronger than Barakiel who is maou-class, so it's possible that CxC form is low-tier god-class or at least high-tier maou-class.

[DragonOsman]

It's just above Maou-class. Ise's base is still below Vali's. I think the only reason both of their respective DxD forms are Heavenly Dragon-class is because Ophis' power gives Ise a greater multiplier to his power compared to Vali's Lucifer power even with Ophis' blessing.

This is how I see their forms:
Ise:
Base: About high-tier High-class (Demonic Power is Low-class, but if you add his Draconic Power, then his overall amount of power should be high-tier High-class. He also continues to train his body every day because he thinks it can help him catch up to Vali, so his physical abilities resulting from that should also be high)
Balance Breaker: Ultimate-class
True Queen/Cardinal Crimson Promotion: Above Maou-class (but still considered Maou-class); each of the Triaina forms are probably True Queen's power divided by 3 since the True Queen is an overall form.
Pseudo DxD G: Heavenly Dragon-class, but below Ddraig's level since Ise noted that Ddraig's aura is equal to or greater than his in Pseudo DxD G.
True DxD G from Volumes 20 and 21: Probably equal to Ddraig's level, or maybe more powerful (if the Pseudo has the power of infinity, it's probably less than it was back then before Ophis adjusted it, so back then it may have been a lot more powerful because of there being more of the power of infinity).

Vali:
Base: Maybe around low-tier Ultimate-class
Balance Breaker: Maou-class
Emperio Juggernaut Overdrive: Low-tier God-class
DxD L: Heavenly Dragon-class.

[Norn]

Originally Posted by XFire

Do we have anything that puts BDtB anywhere near EJOD, which is specifically noted to be on the lower rings of God class?

Did I miss something significant in the side volume? Because beating up a Maou-class doesn't out him on the level of a stronger Juggernaut Drive.

No we don't. There's not enough data to presume that BDtB is God class, or even the higher end of Maou class.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

It really depends because forms have different compatibility. Considering how (BDTB) Sairaorg dominated Bedeze so easily who was Maou-class, he would definitely be easily above (CxC) Issei. Each of Sairaorg's punches equal to Issei's Crimson Blaster? It wouldn't be much of a stretch to say he has more raw power than EJOD Vali.

This is implying Bedeze wouldn't get smoked by Ise. You're also basing yourself on one match instead of multiple ones where different types of match ups and compatibilities could give us an overal picture of where to place BDtB.

Originally Posted by Darksider555

Well we don't know if the spoilers about the EJOD nerf are true.

That's really the crux of the argument.

Saioraorg with BtB could be God Class as well.

We have nothing that suggests he could.

Originally Posted by Royalknightftw

It was done by prime strada

In that case, I think Prime Strada's punches could pose a significant challenge to BDTB.