High School DxD [LN/M] - Volume 25 Discussion / Poll

[syzorst]

How would you judge the rating games in the tournament so far? In my opinion

Issei vs Dulio game was overall my favorite because it had good action and had a nice set of funny moments (Fafnir comments as well and Irina and Xenovia's proposal)

Rias vs Vali game was the best in terms of most unexpected surprises

Issei vs Typhon game had the best action fights. Issei vs Vidar, Apollon vs Xenovia-Irina-Nikari and Ddraig vs Typhon

But that's just me. What are your opinions?

[EternalDragonGod Ise]

Where would you put Nyx, Erebus, Tatarus, Angra Mainyu, Gautama Buddha, Enma, Guanyin, Guan Yu, Xuanzang Sanzang, the 4 Heavenly Kings, Varuna, Ganesha, Hanuman, Hermes, Hera, Athena, Demeter, Hestia, Aphrodite, Hephaestus, Eros, Chronos,Frigg, Freyr, Heimdall, Baldur, Hel, Feyja, Gna, Fulla, Hlin ?

I would say most at Average God Class and some at High God Class

[AP24]

Forgot that there are many gods. I wouldn't be surprised that reaching the Top 100 actually requires at least average god class strength, especially since the Top 20 are heavenly dragon class beings or above. This is probably the rough ranking range for all beings in the series.

1st-20th: Strongest being class, Strongest god class, Heavenly dragon class
21st-50th: High god class
51st-100th: Average god class
Low hundreds: Maou class, Ultimate devil class
High hundreds to low thousands: High devil class

[B214]

No point overthinking these things, it's not like Ishibumi cares about it. If it's needed one can end up becoming stronger than a top 10 due to plot requirement. Vice versa, one can become weaker if needed accordingly.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by EternalDragonGod Ise

Ise and Vali are not god-class, there forms are, but they ? NO! Sirzechs can use his TF as much as he want but Ise and Vali has a Time Limit how long they can use there Forms. I would not put Indra, Sirzechs and Ajuka in the same league as Shiva. Shiva is the strongest God that is in his own league. the only one near him would be Vishnu and Brahma.

Take away the Spear from Cao Cao and he would be nothing. This Guys in the Top 20 hell even Top 100 are very balanced with Magic/Demon/Angel/Divine Power and are also strong in the Body.

I would put it that Way :

Ultimate Excistence/Strongest Beings: Great Red=Ophis>>Trihexa
Strongest Gods: Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma the Pillar Gods
Heavenly/Transcendental Class: Ddraig, Albion, Indra, Sirzechs, Ajuka, Ise DxD G - Vali DxD L, Crom Cruach, Apophis, Azi Dahaka, maybe Vidar with Armor and Boots, Thor, Typhoon, Fenrir (100%), Hades, Aten, Lugh, Balbirth and Verine
High God Class: Zeus, Odin, Posoidon, Apollon, Vidar (normal), Sun Wukong, Nezha Prince, Mahabali
Average god-class ( Artemis, Loki, Thanatos, Pluto and PlutoII, etc.)
Maou-class (Serafall, Michael, Azazel, Grayfia, Diehauser, Uriel, Raphael, Fabium, etc.)

@AP24 But sorry your right there at least 20 Heavenly Dragon Class Beings.

You take away Boosted Gear and Divine Dividing from Issei and Vali and they have nothing. When you use the argument against Cao Cao that without his spear he would be nothing, you would have to use the same argument with Issei and Vali.

To Ishibumi, the power levels are flexible. Crom's Heavenly Dragon-level but seems like Dulio was fighting him just fine. That can easily be written off as Dulio has the 2nd most powerful Longinus and went Balance Breaker. Don't be surprised to see Cao Cao soloing Shiva. Ishibumi could easily make it so.

[EternalDragonGod Ise]

When now (Vol 25/Shin vol 1) we would take away TL from Cao Cao, he would be a powerful Human but compared to Ise and Vali who would be a Human Dragon (Ise) and a Half Devil (Vali) he would look weak.

[AP24]

Well, Issei in his current strongest form is definitely in the Top 20 and it won't be long until he reaches the Top 10. In order to reach the Top 10 he needs to be as strong as Indra.

Rias wants to catch up to Issei but that's going to take a while since she's still at Maou-class on her own strength. Her Balor form requires Gasper and it is High god-class at best. Akeno, Rossweisse, Koneko, Xenovia and Irina now should be Ultimate devil-class at least. Won't be long until all of Issei's fiancées are Maou-class at least. If Issei ends up being one of the strongest beings in existence, then women who are at least Maou-class really are worthy to be his wives.

[Lucidrago]

Would Issei and Vali be as powerful as they are without the Boosted Gear or Divine Dividing? They're only at the level They're at now because of the Sacred Gears they were born with. Same thing applies to Cao Cao.

So ask yourself why are Vali and Issei given an exception when you say that Cao Cao wouldn't be as powerful as he is without his Sacred Gear. As you do realize that applies to almost every character with a Sacred Gear in this series.

While Issei's harem is powerful, a Maou-class devil would look much more like Sairaorg in base. Or Issei in Balance Breaker. They're pretty strong but Maou-class in the future is kind of pushing it. But what do I know? I've been wrong before.

[AP24]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

While Issei's harem is powerful, a Maou-class devil would look much more like Sairaorg in base. Or Issei in Balance Breaker. They're pretty strong but Maou-class in the future is kind of pushing it. But what do I know? I've been wrong before.

Almost everyone in Issei's harem is said to be as strong as high class devils long ago and they have gotten stronger now. For example, Koneko recently defeated Kuroka who is said to be as strong as an ultimate class devil. So all of the women in Issei's harem being at least Maou class in the future is not really pushing it.

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Would Issei and Vali be as powerful as they are without the Boosted Gear or Divine Dividing? They're only at the level They're at now because of the Sacred Gears they were born with. Same thing applies to Cao Cao.

So ask yourself why are Vali and Issei given an exception when you say that Cao Cao wouldn't be as powerful as he is without his Sacred Gear. As you do realize that applies to almost every character with a Sacred Gear in this series.

While Issei's harem is powerful, a Maou-class devil would look much more like Sairaorg in base. Or Issei in Balance Breaker. They're pretty strong but Maou-class in the future is kind of pushing it. But what do I know? I've been wrong before.

Yes Vali is a Lucifer. He doesn't have boost. His Grandfather didn't kill him for being weak like his own son. Plus being a prince of hell practically makes him a born ultimate class devil. Where are you getting his like Issei in base?

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by AP24

Well, Issei in his current strongest form is definitely in the Top 20 and it won't be long until he reaches the Top 10. In order to reach the Top 10 he needs to be as strong as Indra.

Rias wants to catch up to Issei but that's going to take a while since she's still at Maou-class on her own strength. Her Balor form requires Gasper and it is High god-class at best. Akeno, Rossweisse, Koneko, Xenovia and Irina now should be Ultimate devil-class at least. Won't be long until all of Issei's fiancées are Maou-class at least. If Issei ends up being one of the strongest beings in existence, then women who are at least Maou-class really are worthy to be his wives.

Huh? Issei is his current strongest form beat someone who was stronger than Fenrir (top 10 class). Also Rias is below maou-class on her own. She hasn't caught up to those at Grayfia's level.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Parry999

Yes Vali is a Lucifer. He doesn't have boost. His Grandfather didn't kill him for being weak like his own son. Plus being a prince of hell practically makes him a born ultimate class devil. Where are you getting his like Issei in base?

When did I say that? I just said that Issei and Vali wouldn't be as strong as they are without Boosted Gear and Divine Dividing. I was replying to the guy who said Cao Cao would be nothing without True Longinus.

I know Vali is powerful without Divine Dividing as he still has immense demonic powers without it. But without Divine Dividing, no EJOD or DxD L.

And Divine Dividing does raise the user's power as well. It allows the possessor to divide(half) power and consume it making it his own.

[AP24]

Originally Posted by syzorst

Huh? Issei is his current strongest form beat someone who was stronger than Fenrir (top 10 class). Also Rias is below maou-class on her own. She hasn't caught up to those at Grayfia's level.

Fenrir used to be in the Top 10 list that didn't include Trihexa, Great Red, Ddraig and Albion. Now there are more strong ones which cause even Fenrir barely reach the Top 20.

Rias already reached Ultimate-class a while ago and so she should be Maou-class already. Grayfia is one of the stronger ones in the Maou-class since she's one of the 3 strongest female devils.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by AP24

Fenrir used to be in the Top 10 list that didn't include Trihexa, Great Red, Ddraig and Albion. Now there are more strong ones which cause even Fenrir barely reach the Top 20.

Rias already reached Ultimate-class a while ago and so she should be Maou-class already. Grayfia is one of the stronger ones in the Maou-class since she's one of the 3 strongest female devils.

He beat Vidar who was stronger than Thor, and Ddraig (whose aura was slightly superior to Issei's) spanked the shit out of Typhon.

The top ten list in general is long since defunct, however. Ophis, who originally stood absolutely alone at the top since GR was outside it, has at least two other characters somewhat comparable (though still inferior) to her in 666 and Shiva, plus maybe this new super devil; Sirzechs is ten times as strong as a Maou while Indra "only" rates four; the last three Evil Dragons are all above half the original list; Ddraig and Albion reveal they've been holding back the whole time; Ise and Vali beat/rival the aforementioned Evil Dragons; and so on.

Its more a representation of "around here is the strongest" than anything definite anymore.

[DragonOsman]

@AP24: Ddraig and Albion are among the Top 10 strongest beings in the world. And in Volume 25 spoilers, Ddraig reminded of him having told him before that there aren't many beings that are above him and Albion. Crom Cruach surpassed them in base stats but is still Heavenly Dragon-class and if Ddraig and Albion got serious, they can still beat him (even Ddraig or Albion alone). The only beings above Heavenly Dragon-class are Indra (maybe, although he might also Heavenly Dragon-class himself), Shiva, Ophis in her prime and Great Red. Maybe Vishnu and Brahma are also at Shiva's level or maybe they're below. But if Ddraig and Albion use their abilities, probably the only ones that can stand up to them are Great Red and Ophis in her prime. And Rias' team a team with Ultimate-class Devil as the King, but we don't know strong of an Ultimate-class Devil he was and the one that did most of the work in beating him was Crom. So we don't know if Rias is still an above-average High-class Devil or if she's already low-tier Ultimate-class at least.

And @Eternal, Ise and Vali can't fight against Maou-class or above beings without the Boosted Gear and Divine Dividing, can they? Vali in just base without using the Divine Dividing could maybe put somewhat of a fight against a Maou-class being, but Ise likely can't. He'd need the True Queen or above to go up against Maou-class or above beings. Vali's Balance Breaker is already Maou-class, so of course his base is either borderline or low-tier Ultimate-class. And you say you can't count them in the Top 10 or even Super Devil-level since it's not them but their forms that put them at that level, but maybe you forget that it's their DxD forms that made them future Super Devil candidates. To the people in DxD universe itself, they are Super Devils even if they just have a form that's at that level.

Edit: One post late.
What XFire said.

And the list shown in the Volume 13 Afterword is stated, right in the Afterword itself, to be from when Ophis and Fenrir hadn't lost their power. Great Red is said to not be mentioned because he doesn't fight and just swims around in the Dimensional Gap. And it's also the list Vali mentioned back in Volume 4 actually, so it's a contextual list. But Ddraig and Albion with their bodies, even now, would still be in Top 10 without a doubt. If Ophis still had her power, I'd put the Two Heavenly Dragons at number 3. Ophis number 1, Shiva number 2. Indra above the Two Heavenly Dragons, but not that far above.

[XFire]

Meh, I'd put Indra below them, personally. Given what we've seen of Ddraig, the fact that their original power didn't take into account their super abilities, and the fact that the claim "this works on everyone but each other and Dragon Gods" takes place when he damn well knows about the Hindu gods, I think they could take him in a straight fight.

I also don't expect Indra to ever get in a straight fight considering he's prepping to fight Shiva, so he almost certainly has some shit to boost him dramatically not unlike Vidar.

But I guess we'll see.

[DragonOsman]

Yeah, we'll see. But I definitely believe everything Ddraig has said about his power now: he and Albion have the power dominate the God of the Bible, and when they get serious, only Ophis in her prime when she's completely serious and a serious Great Red could stand against them (his actual words were something like "I told you, didn't I, Partner? When Albion and I still had our bodies, there wasn't anyone who could stand against us"). Indra probably does have something up his sleeves to boost his power, though, like with Vidar. But Vidar still lost to Pseudo DxD G Ise who is slightly below Ddraig's level albeit still being Heavenly Dragon-class. They were about evenly matched, but if Ise had used Ddraig's abilities, Vidar would've been beaten sooner.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by XFire

Meh, I'd put Indra below them, personally. Given what we've seen of Ddraig, the fact that their original power didn't take into account their super abilities, and the fact that the claim "this works on everyone but each other and Dragon Gods" takes place when he damn well knows about the Hindu gods, I think they could take him in a straight fight.

I also don't expect Indra to ever get in a straight fight considering he's prepping to fight Shiva, so he almost certainly has some shit to boost him dramatically not unlike Vidar.

But I guess we'll see.

You do have to consider that Shiva was #1 after Ophis got her power stolen. Indra's prepping to fight Shiva because Shiva is stronger than him. Besides there could be other preparations he's making like ensuring the world isn't destroyed if they fight.

Ddraig and Albion aren't in the Top 10 as they were basically sealed into Sacred Gears. Great Red isn't in the Top 10 as he doesn't fight and isn't active.

And let's wait until Volume 25 is actually translated to say anything about info from the volume.

[XFire]

Should also mention the only thing we know about Indra's power atm is that he's as powerful as four Maou's.

Sirzechs is 2.5 times that and he wasn't really superior to DxD Issei.

So if he has something, it's gonna be a booster or some serious hax.

@Lucidrago he's prepping to fight the guy who was gonna take 666 alone, he has to have some way to punch above his weight. Plus he appears to be more or less planning on just Zerging him with as many powerful people as he can prep.

[DragonOsman]

@Lucidrago: My point was that if Ddraig and Albion had their bodies right now, they'd be number 2 since Ophis lost her power and Shiva is the new number 1. And yeah, I too think Sirzechs is also on par with the Two Heavenly Dragons in their primes. And he's 10x Maou-class with Indra being 4x. So Indra would need some sort of hax power or a booster to be on par with the Two Heavenly Dragons.