2016-11-21, 15:06
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Link #1203 | |
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Index III was a mistake
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 32
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Quote:
This is BS. How did NT do so well? I was expecting it drop off the top 10 but it instead goes up to 3rd!? In a year when SAO finished its longest arc to date and is as popular as ever due to an upcoming movie. In a year when NT sales have continued to tank and stuck in an unpopular arc. In a year where Re:Zero blew up. Its rigged. Rigged I say. BTW, White Queen is 7th. 
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2016-11-21, 15:57
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Link #1204 | |
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Memento Mori
 Graphic Designer
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
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Quote:
 It's so powerful it makes Accelerator stand in the top 3 despite not having had a single appearance in recent volumes. 
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2016-11-21, 15:58
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Link #1205 |
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I’m sorry, Kamijou-san!!
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
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LOLOL That's nice to see though.
Index seems to be retaining its popularity among people likely to vote in these things I guess. It's nice to see the popularity rising. Maybe NT 16 had some impact on this vote? That aside, Kyousuke got 10th, don't forget him either. Kamachi has a lot of character/series/illustrator now in the top 10's. What a good showing! I'm still miffed Re-zero beat Index lol. Now it's Index's new enemy. Is its LN really that good? I will admit the anime was sort of fun I guess. ^ Yeah, the Accelerator part is funny, but maybe they're considering his appearances in the manga when they're casting that vote. 
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2016-11-21, 16:06
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Link #1206 |
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Memento Mori
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
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Index has had a lot of "new enemies". Every popular series has been one since NT started.
Re:Zero beating Index? That's really unsurprising. I can see many ways in which Re:Zero is superior to NT and I'd follow it if I wasn't waiting on a few novels to be out in the West before actually buying them. It's a legitimate good story that, while it does have its flaws, handles some aspects of its genre so well that it makes it superior to certain parts of NT where the series just drowns under its ambitions and scatter-braininess. If it was up against OT then I'm not sure how it would have fared, but alas it's no myth that NT quality has gone down drastically enough for Re:Zero to knock it out of the park, hence why it's, on the other hand, really surprising that NT and its cast is still doing so well after so many years in Kono Light Novel ga Sugoi. But hey, again, that's the power of rightful spotlight on Mikoto~!
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2016-11-21, 16:48
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Link #1207 |
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Mystic Musician
Join Date: Jul 2015
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^
Don't know if serious, or sarcastic. I'll go for the second. About Re:Zero well, it pulls people into a emotional rollercoaster something NT fails to pull off except for the particular NT9 but that had to take a really long build up while the other just took 2 arcs. @OH&S The power of the media, take a stroll on certain areas on Akiba and you'll see Mikoto everywhere change areas and you'll find Asuna even in the bathroom aaaand that's how it worked all these years for characters popularity... About the other rankings, ehhh rigged or trying to save face for Dengeki. |
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2016-11-21, 17:01
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Link #1208 | |
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Memento Mori
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
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Quote:
As much as I'm aware people will tell me "BUT RAILGUN", that reminder of her own spin-off story will never change the fact that Index's Mikoto never had growth or development beyond the bite-sized amounts we got throughout OT and a proper arc that focuses on her was long, long overdue. Considering the quality of it, it's certainly one of NT's strongest points right now. People always complained about her being there and taking up "precious space my favourite character that's not her could fill in" but in the end she's the one giving NT it's current greatness that's been lacking in a majority of volumes save for very specific ones and she's such a diversified character that Kamachi is giving her two different types of development in two series running at the same time within the same universe while keeping both canon. That's no easy feat. I'd praise Index the same if she ever gets her turn but these days I've lost hope Kamachi will do anything worthwhile with her considering she's had such backwards development that it became regression.
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2016-11-21, 17:39
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Link #1209 |
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Index III was a mistake
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 32
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@Natsurin & Kuroageha:
To be clear, Misaka and Haimura coming in first is totally fine by me. I can easily rationalize that. Accelerator being up there is fine as well as he actually had an appearance this year. Last year he didn't but still ranked absurdly well. Its the LN ranking and Kamijou coming first that are the real head-scratchers (this coming from the biggest Kamijou fanboy in the forum). Arguments about marketing and the such is fine but SAO should have the more definitive advantage in terms of basically everything. And I know that Index didn't get any collab votes. My question is, if Index sales are going down, how is it that more people seem to have voted for it? Misaka can't explain everything. Lest we rename the poll: Kono Misaka ga Sugoi! Which, btw, the female character ranking already is.
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2016-11-21, 18:01
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Link #1210 |
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『Lolimancer』
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Sales =/= How the Japanese feel about something
Surprised that no one has mentioned it, probably because no one has gone to check, but NT16/17 were well-received by most of the fans there. I've been behind on this series for almost 2 years now and have been catching up lately, so I don't know exactly how everyone has felt about these last few volumes here, but even on places like baidu and twitter I've seen some praise for at least the last two. The sales are trending downwards naturally, due to the lack of any real promotion outside of crossovers. If the quality of writing truly dictated the sales, then there's some other big name series that I won't name that should be pretty abysmal. |
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2016-11-21, 18:11
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Link #1211 |
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Memento Mori
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
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You're making a quick assumption here. I don't think OH&S meant "sales" in such a literal manner, or at least for me "sales" would mean reader interest as opposed to simply numbers and in which case it makes perfect sense to question why NT beat SAO in the rankings.
SAO's popularity knocks Index's out of the park, only a very naive person would deny that, and it should be especially proven to do so considering a very long arc finally came to an end after many years whereas NT's main strong points has been very scattered between specific and recent volumes as opposed to the entire series and it hasn't had a great arc climax, or climax at all, since its tenth volume. On the other hand, a lot of readers feel that NT is getting dragged out far too much and not everyone stuck around for the latest volumes even if they were well-received, which is something that should work in its disfavour. It's not a matter of numbers but rather how the hell did Index top SAO on anything when popularity is concerned even though SAO should be at its strongest right now? They were certainly great, but were NT15/16/17 really such good reads that they defeated a boss in terms of LN popularity with its massive fanbase? I still stand by the point that finally being delivered in terms of Mikoto development had a hand in it, but it definitely can't explain kicking that monster out of the top 3 and the question is therefore quite valid right now. That said I'm certainly a lot less sceptical about Touma solely because I believe NT16's end had a hand in hyping up readers enough to make him climb back up again, it's not like he was ever a disliked character, he simply fell from grace following NT10 and I think he retrieved some of it as of NT16 which would explain why he's ranked first again.
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2016-11-21, 18:55
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Link #1212 |
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『Lolimancer』
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Well I wasn't particulaly aiming that at any certain person. I don't really follow SAO nor do I know how fans in Japan feel about it, but perhaps series exhaustion is setting in. Maybe the series has already peaked.
It could also be as simple as Index fans being more prevalent when it comes to voting. The one thing about SAO I do know, is that it appeals to a much more casual audience, and they might not vote. There's a number of variables at play here, but clearly people must not completely hate what's going on in NT right now. I'm not sure when voting started but I'd be surprised if it impacted results so quickly if NT17 is so new. |
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2016-11-21, 19:59
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Link #1214 | |
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Fukou da
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 28
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Quote:
Anyways, so happy for the series! Touma and Misaka being number 1. Index in 3rd beating SAO (IN YOUR FACE DENGEKI!). SAO series and fans are cool with me tho, plan are watching the series soon with a friend (: Now next year is going to be very interesting.
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2016-11-21, 22:58
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Link #1215 | ||
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I’m sorry, Kamijou-san!!
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
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Quote:
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That aside though I'm still pleased by these results. I still don't think I can understand the emotional appeal of Re-zero from the anime though, but I'll believe you. I liked the first five episodes of the show, which is all I've seen, but I thought it was a bit... yeah. (Edit: I've read the first two arcs in the manga, but even though I was into it, I didn't think it was good enough to compare to OT which is what I was implying there... he he he...) Edited stuff: Natsurin, I can respect your opinion, but I personally think that NT's major problem is that we had too many characters introduced all at once that we didn't care about much since they weren't explored properly. But this is getting fixed now, so re-reading those old volumes should actually make them better now. Though, I agree that this is a flaw with the writing. I've just been prioritizing other aspects of the writing so that in spite of all the flaws, I've enjoyed the most important part of the series more than in OT and than before in general. It's nice seeing everyone maturing more ideologically. The only truly sketchy thing in NT for me is Spoiler for NT 16:
Spoiler for theorizing about NT 16:
I think that Kamachi has gotten a lot more abstract since he started with NT. This style has its own strengths and weaknesses. Some weaknesses can be seen in the way that Kamachi makes the reader often suspend disbelief to assume that by doing X person Y convinces person Z of W, that by person Y and person Z both going through event X together they reach mutual state of understanding W, or that by person Y and person Z doing X, W happens. Since Kamachi has gotten more abstract with a lot of his situations and also less grounded in reality, this has lead to writing that relies a lot more on suspension of disbelief. At the same time, since the situations and conflicts of ideals are so interesting, I'm finding them better than ever, and because I don't mind making these sorts of assumptions, I'm enjoying it. I still can understand how people that don't like making these assumptions would find the quality of the writing reduced. Aside from that analysis though, I think that one reason sales have swung so much aside from the non-existence of Index III, is that he's started incorporating more ideological points of view into the series proper. The entire arc focusing on Kamisato has had a very different tone from the rest of the series. Also, all of NT has been thematically darker than the original series--like it's been infused with a dose of reality. This is why I think some people have grown less fond of NT. Not to mention, other people are dissatisfied with the s/l and the fanservice at times. At the same time, IMO Kamachi has used NT to push the limits of the series (and to redefine it). In many ways, aside from the focus on Misaka, I think the best improvement is that while OT was very idealistic about how everything could go well if everyone made the right decision and worked together, NT can be summarized by ideas from NT 17 and from the Gremlin arc: it is possible to divide up everyone's interests or provide everyone with a set of circumstances such that even if everyone makes the best possible choices, everything still goes to sh*t. This reminds me much more of FSN or Fate Zero, even though it's probably being more moderate in terms of the negative consequences of each of the arcs for the characters. I'm still unsure what the underlying message of the most recent volumes is though. I'm sure though that the future sales are going to depend on that message. Either way, this volume has kept me quite excited, and I can see why NT 17 would make the series' popularity rise. Though... I can't say exactly why NT 16 would do that in terms of the popularity rankings. Still though, I'm glad many things which are happening are happening, and that the quality is improving again.
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Last edited by dniv; 2016-11-23 at 22:35. Reason: Making my post better and on-topic |
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2016-11-22, 03:23
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Link #1216 | ||||
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Index III was a mistake
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 32
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Quote:
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=== Anyway, after skimming the MAL forum on the rankings, I found a post that gave a believable speculation as to why Index did so well this year: Quote:
As for Kamijou ranking first, I just realized there was a novel that I completely forgot about that could have affected things: Toaru Majutsu no Virtual-On. The novel where Kamijou, Misaka and Accel kicked ass in. That along with NT14-16 and I'm starting to warm up to these results (or rather, they're starting to make some sense).
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2016-11-22, 20:39
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Link #1217 |
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Memento Mori
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
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Quite the hypocrite there. Maybe you should consider how you're coming off across, dniv, before telling him to do so? Do you think you're in any place to criticise him for "not reading your post" even though you have absolutely no clue of whether he did or not? Aren't you the one pointing fingers in defence against non-existent attacks? Who said your opinion sucked, pray tell?
All you're doing is actually force your own opinion via these walls whenever someone says something you disagree with. If they disagree, they either can fuck off because they don't like the series or they simply didn't read your post? What the hell? And right now you're attacking him because you don't like the idea that people don't think this sequel is the Bible while he agrees to the notion that not everyone finds the writing quality of NT to be out the roof? You whine people shouldn't force to change your opinions, but how many times have you gone ahead and try to change mine just because I didn't agree with NT being a great sequel? How many times did you send me walls just because I said something you personally disagreed with instead of simply deciding "agree to disagree"? Didn't you flag me as a "NT hater" up until I explicitly told you to stop bringing up my OT preference? I didn't say anything the last few times you decided to blow your lid off to people you don't agree with, and while I don't like to stir up trouble like this I think at this point it should be said because this is getting out of hand literally every time a discussion comes up and it's only going to get worse if now you attack people who can even rationalise why people would have the same feelings towards this series as I do. This is going to be my only reply, so please be mature and don't try to start an argument via sending another wall because I'm not going to reply. I simply hope you'll know better than to do this again. Returning to the actual topic, hm, it does make sense. I guess a lot of the SAO demographic would also fall in the mindset of "other people will vote I don't need to" which could work in its disfavour as well? A lot of factors are getting noticed now. And to be fair, it's hard to remember that specific volume when it's one of the only things Js06 hasn't translated yet.
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2016-11-22, 21:16
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Link #1218 |
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He who writes too much.
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 32
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How many times does this need to be put across to you Dniv before you stop diving into the deep end, while not thinking about what you write in your posts? Because each time you sound like a hypocritical jerk. Especially when all we want is to freely discussion the downs and ups of every aspect of this fandom. You ask to respect your views, and we have, but you haven't seemed to give us the same respect in return.
And after this has happened a few times now, I feel insulted and disappointed you reacted in this way once again. Please think about your responses in the future, we only want to discuss in a mature manner about the series we enjoy. On Topic: Well done for Touma and Misaka winning the polls, those last few LNs might be giving the series the boosts it needed. |
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2016-11-23, 04:32
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Link #1219 | ||
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Index III was a mistake
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 32
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...What have I done...
OK, just for you dniv: Now can we please clear the air in this thread; it was getting hard to breathe for a moment. Natsurin and Loremaster included; its done. Quote:
And look at the rankings since 2011: 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 3rd. The underlined is where Oregairu dominated in the same year. And the bold is the new ranking. I think the reasoning makes perfect sense. But again, we really need to look at the numbers. Edit: Quote:
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Last edited by OH&S; 2016-11-23 at 04:38. Reason: q/a |
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2016-11-23, 04:46
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Link #1220 | |
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I’m sorry, Kamijou-san!!
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
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Also, I do try to keep an open mind. I've been more critical of NT than I used to be. And I try to appreciate what others dislike about the series itself. Though, even with that being the case, it still doesn't change what I like about it. I was just trying to communicate what I like about it to other people--because in this case what I liked about it changed from what it was before. I was only mentioning it though because what I like about the series seems to be different than what the other people were saying the series doesn't have. So I was pointing out that while I agree it's become worse for the wear in some areas, it has improved in other areas dramatically. But then again, it's just an opinion. Aside from that I'll admit that I could have made my previous post more on-topic...  I was just in a bad mood from your post so I was being a bit combative...  That aside, I only thought Oregairu was number one last year, when it topped like everything. That surprises me. I should definitely be more careful in checking my sources before making bold claims like that in the future. That does give the point more validity, and it's an interesting point. Still, I do think that while this arc has been unpopular, the recent parts are relatively popular with Japanese fans. I just think that it's unpopular because it represents a shift in series' tone, and oftentimes people dislike shifts when they want more of the same. (That desire isn't bad or good it just is what it is.)And as before, I'm still waiting for week 2 sales... Edit: (As mentioned before, past misunderstandings shall be resolved via PM.) Also, I did read the manga for Re-zero, so I've at least gotten through the second arc. I didn't say it wasn't good. I've heard it's excellent. I just think it's not necessarily very creative, and has a very safe environment, something that makes it lose some of its appeal...
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Last edited by dniv; 2016-11-23 at 22:01. |
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