(L) Fairy Tail Manga Discussion Thread

[Wandering Soul]

I'm not even blaming anyone for this BS. I blame myself for expecting more.

Gray was the only good thing about this chapter.

[Kafriel]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

please let Jellal go all-out first.. save this battle for me
I forgot that Erza still got that eyes.. even though I totally clueless about what is that eyes power *since only Jellal know about it*

Well, one of her eyes...the other one is a magical transplant :P

[Kyero Fox]

Refuse it all you guys want. But this Manga/Anime is on Repeat and needs to be called "Angry Eyes" or "Molest Erza Scarlet" heh

[Kafriel]

I don't mind a repetitive pattern, as long as it suits the occasion. THIS doesn't - I don't care who the hell Erza is, this is potentially the final arc of the manga, it's waaaaaay too late to give character exposition now - should have done that back in Jellal's arc, or the Nirvana arc, or after the Zentopia arc...hell, why not pull this off during the first torture in the Tartaros arc? Now is just a terrible time for this.

[EvI]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

I don't mind a repetitive pattern, as long as it suits the occasion. THIS doesn't - I don't care who the hell Erza is, this is potentially the final arc of the manga, it's waaaaaay too late to give character exposition now - should have done that back in Jellal's arc, or the Nirvana arc, or after the Zentopia arc...hell, why not pull this off during the first torture in the Tartaros arc? Now is just a terrible time for this.

the last arc? where did you take that from? nobody even the author said anything about being the last... -_-"

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by EvI

the last arc? where did you take that from? nobody even the author said anything about being the last... -_-"

He did say "potentially the final arc". This really does look like it could be the final arc or at least the penultimate arc. All the main players are here and we are starting to get the answers to the questions that this manga has left unanswered for a while.

[Kafriel]

Originally Posted by EvI

the last arc? where did you take that from? nobody even the author said anything about being the last... -_-"

Battle against Zeref, Natsu learning about his nature, all-out continental war. The premise and scale are large enough for it - and honestly, I'm looking forward to its closure. In a good way.

[Ggb81]

I'm as against Erza ex Machina as anyone... but I think this one was legit. I figured from the start that it would have to be a mental thing i.e. coming to terms with the past battles/enemies. I wish someone besides Erza had figured it out, but c'est la vie. I didn't interpret it as them being afraid of the Erza-stare since the panels looked more like they were being sucked away against their will.
Not that I speak Japanese, but I'm also wondering if when Nein said the thing about the historia "cowering in fear" it might have been a mistranslation or a manga stream dramatization. Maybe something like "sent away by her frightening determination" was intended.

At any rate, I'm glad to see Jellal getting in the thick of things at last. It's time he had an all-out fight.

Gray was good. Reminded me of Roy Mustang when he shoots Envy transformed into Maes Hughes. Pretty awesome.

As far as the last arc, maybe, maybe not. It's starting to feel endgame-y but I'd put my money on Acnologia getting his own arc even if Zeref goes down in this one.

AAAAAND

That line was inconceivable

[Random14]

Oh, Erza randomly wins again, what a surprise. So first the manga rips off edo tensei (but with even less rules), they revisit one of the more gross/disturbing/stupid moments of the manga with that torture, then Erza wins because... she's Erza?

I check in on this manga once a month, out of habit, but nothing good ever happens, especially in an Erza battle. At least Gray got good lines, if only him surpassing even an illusion of his teacher was given proper screentime, but then if the manga understood that, it would have far less problems.

[Krono]

People, Erza's opponent here was Neinhart remember? That's who she came to the docks to fight. The historia are essentially his equivalent of Lucy's celestial spirits, or Angel's angels. Last I looked, Neinhart doesn't have a scratch on him, and Erza's lying unconscious in a pool of her own blood. And yet you're declaring her the winner because she beat Neinhart's equivalent of Taurus?

Originally Posted by Ggb81

Not that I speak Japanese, but I'm also wondering if when Nein said the thing about the historia "cowering in fear" it might have been a mistranslation or a manga stream dramatization. Maybe something like "sent away by her frightening determination" was intended.

The official translation there is "She made them vanish... They were terrified of her..."

[Clipens]

Originally Posted by Random14

Oh, Erza randomly wins again, what a surprise. So first the manga rips off edo tensei (but with even less rules), they revisit one of the more gross/disturbing/stupid moments of the manga with that torture, then Erza wins because... she's Erza?

I check in on this manga once a month, out of habit, but nothing good ever happens, especially in an Erza battle. At least Gray got good lines, if only him surpassing even an illusion of his teacher was given proper screentime, but then if the manga understood that, it would have far less problems.

I don't think this chapter was a tribute to Naruto. It was a tribute to Nanatsu no Taizai's Merascylla. (In Nanatsu there is a character named Elaine and she is a fairy).

[Casshern]

Not sure why Erza is underestimated so much, to the point where nobody will acknowledge her victories. She used to be a lot of people's favourite.

Erza takes damage. She's a tank type. Even when she switches to full offence she can still soak a lot of damage. She hardly has any big attacks, and they don't even seem that strong compared to offensive types like Natsu and Laxus. So why is it hard to accept that Erza wins fights by persistently landing few attacks while taking a lot of damage?

Ikaruga was outdone by Erza's flame-pants style. Pretty straight forward, Ikaruga lost on technique alone.
Azuma was a caster type. He caused massive damage but it turns out he couldn't take much damage himself.
Kyoka's ability was to amplify Erza's senses, but the actual damage that she inflicted was within Erza's ability to take, even if Erza looked a lot worse than she actually was due to the pain.

Considering the difference in power pre-timeskip and after, Azuma and Ikaruga are nothing in front of Erza now. Even Kyoka is way below Erza by now. So I don't know why anyone would want to delay the real fight against Neinhart to watch a prolonged battle against opponents that she already defeated. The damage that she's taken so far isn't even that much compared to other times.

I would get the frustration if she spammed the Nakagami armour in every fight, but considering that she has this ace and doesn't depend on it to win is even more in her favour.

[Slayerx]

^Thinking about it, I feel like the reason many may be frustrated over Erza is because the author overplayed her. Mashima likes to write these battles where a fighter, in particular Erza, is pushed to the brink of defeat just to come out on top at the very last second with just one big powerful push. In a sense, instead of her victories coming from superior skill, strength, or strategy, her victories come from sheer force of will. This can be fine once in a while, but its used so often that it feels like its the status quo... do it too much and it becomes tiresome and ridiculous; We might have enjoyed it the first couple of times, but its lost any kind of charm it might have had. "yes erza's a badass who fights for her friends, we get it, move on".

Heck there are plenty of other ways this fight could have gone down... Heck as you mentioned, Erza has grown A LOT stronger since she fought these guys, Ikaruga and Azuma shouldn't even be much of a challenge anymore. Heck it could have made the point about them all being people she had beaten in the past into their most literal meaning. "you really thought you could beat me, with people I already beat? Your historia is nothing but history". Heck banishing them AFTER thoroughly kicking their asses would have probably felt a lot lot more satisfying (honestly you would think her being restrained, weak, and in pain after a one sided beat down would make those spirits LESS scared of her).... Not to mention that Erza's ability to change magic armor does offer quite a bit of variety that we don't get to see much of. She swaps her armor, but in the end she's usually just smashing people with her sword; its hardly a factor. And part of the blame for that, is that sheer force of will victories which rely on summoning brute force rather than actual skill

This chapter also didn't win any favors with its terrible use of a fanservice. ONce upon of time the fanservice in this series was tolerable, but i think around the time of the timeskip it really started to become more and more blatant and unnecessary. Its really distracting.

[Kafriel]

Erza's ability to change magic armor does offer quite a bit of variety that we don't get to see much of.

Mainly this. Erza has overwhelming power, enough to kill giant horned beasts in her very introduction and solo pandemonium in the GMG. She also has an incredible selection of armor sets to choose from, in order to deal with any possible situation...and she actually used to remember that: she had the proper armor to block a jupiter shot, mitigate Laxus' thunder palace, her classic AoE bladewheel set and purgatory armor for max attack. After revealing her naked blade during Ikaruga's fight, she only used Nakagami and Fairy armor IIRC and everything else came with reduced frequency.

Ikaruga beat Erza in both speed and technique - it was a complete loss for Erza. Switching armor may boost her stats, but couldn't possibly refine her sword arts. Anyway, it wasn't a huge fight in the first place.

She really struggled with Azuma and actually beat him wih friendship power. It wasn't THAT bad, people mostly didn't seem impressed though and unfairly compared it to Claire vs Ricardo from Claymore. Kyouka fight was good, until the sensory theft started. The only thing Erza could sense was pain and yet she accurately hit Kyouka enough to the point of defeat. I can take any level of tanking, but I won't believe for a second that random punches that cannot be thrown at full power were enough to defeat a demon powerful enough to annihilate lesser guilds by herself. Kyouka was just too strong to lose in such a demeaning way - and I'm not saying that Erza's strength is any less, but in THAT kind of situation, she couldn't have possibly won.

[Clipens]

I have some questions:

Why did "historia of corpses" ignore Tempester and Deliora?

How does Erza repair her armors?

Where is Yajima?

[Casshern]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Mainly this. Erza has overwhelming power, enough to kill giant horned beasts in her very introduction and solo pandemonium in the GMG. She also has an incredible selection of armor sets to choose from, in order to deal with any possible situation...and she actually used to remember that: she had the proper armor to block a jupiter shot, mitigate Laxus' thunder palace, her classic AoE bladewheel set and purgatory armor for max attack. After revealing her naked blade during Ikaruga's fight, she only used Nakagami and Fairy armor IIRC and everything else came with reduced frequency.

Ikaruga beat Erza in both speed and technique - it was a complete loss for Erza. Switching armor may boost her stats, but couldn't possibly refine her sword arts. Anyway, it wasn't a huge fight in the first place.

She really struggled with Azuma and actually beat him wih friendship power. It wasn't THAT bad, people mostly didn't seem impressed though and unfairly compared it to Claire vs Ricardo from Claymore. Kyouka fight was good, until the sensory theft started. The only thing Erza could sense was pain and yet she accurately hit Kyouka enough to the point of defeat. I can take any level of tanking, but I won't believe for a second that random punches that cannot be thrown at full power were enough to defeat a demon powerful enough to annihilate lesser guilds by herself. Kyouka was just too strong to lose in such a demeaning way - and I'm not saying that Erza's strength is any less, but in THAT kind of situation, she couldn't have possibly won.

I don't agree about Ikaruga. Imo the armours weren't up to the task of dealing with an opponent of Ikuruga's level, to the point where they were an encumbrance to use. Hypothetically, by using no armour at all (flame-pants style), all of Erza's magic is focused on her physical attributes instead of maintaining the armour.

I don't disagree about Azuma, but if friendship is the motivation that makes her draw her last remaining power then I'm ok with that. So far at least, I think Hiro has not shown friendship to be a tangible form of energy, though imo it's not unlikely as that seems to be the general direction in which the one magic is going.

In Erza's fight with Kyoka, in the last stages, it could be that Erza could still feel magic. Kyoka only ever talked about the effects of her magic on the physical senses, but there is plenty of evidence of psychic senses in FT.

Anyway, it looks like there's more to Erza than we know. No point in hypothesising now, but I still prefer to enjoy it and keep that mentality than to pick at details that don't really matter in the big picture. Comparisons with Naruto are ironic to say the least.

[Kafriel]

According to Erza, her flame pants had no benefit. Its use only inferred that Erza switched to all-out offense...but she still shouldn't be able to see Ikaruga's blade coming; she had always been destroyed in every previous clash. Strength is one thing, but her perception should have remained the same, so their final exchange does not make sense IMO. I'll just chalk it up to nakama power with all the "distance between hearts" talk.

In Erza's fight with Kyoka, in the last stages, it could be that Erza could still feel magic. Kyoka only ever talked about the effects of her magic on the physical senses, but there is plenty of evidence of psychic senses in FT.

Even if she felt magic, demons don't use magic, they use curses, which have been establishes as something completely different in essence...but even if she could sense THAT, let's go through Kyouka's curse: she took away Erza's eyesight with 100% certainty (as said by Erza herself later). Next page, she took her hands too, which means Erza would have no sense of touch. How could she know where she's standing, hitting, etc.? She couldn't, so from that point on, that fight makes absolutely no sense.

Anyway, I don't dislike Erza, but her fights are mostly executed in a terrible way...I'll drop this subject for now, if anyone wants to keep up, they can VM me or switch to Erza's thread.

[Ggb81]

Ok to the above, but about Historia in general, I think that it conjures up the memories of the battles, so regardless of the difference in power now, it's the memory of being weaker than the opponent that causes the historia to have such great power. And to circulate to Erza... She remembered Ikagura as a very strong opponent, so the historia of her is very strong. (Therefore, there isn't actually a power gap between Erza and her previous opponents). Maybe the historia keeps this power until the person recognizes that it's just a memory, like how Gray affirms that Ur is not really there and Erza ultimately banishes the historia. Could also explain why Lyon has such a hard time at first, since he is still seeing her incorrectly.

Still doesn't excuse other Erza stuff though...

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Ggb81

Ok to the above, but about Historia in general, I think that it conjures up the memories of the battles, so regardless of the difference in power now, it's the memory of being weaker than the opponent that causes the historia to have such great power. And to circulate to Erza... She remembered Ikagura as a very strong opponent, so the historia of her is very strong. (Therefore, there isn't actually a power gap between Erza and her previous opponents). Maybe the historia keeps this power until the person recognizes that it's just a memory, like how Gray affirms that Ur is not really there and Erza ultimately banishes the historia. Could also explain why Lyon has such a hard time at first, since he is still seeing her incorrectly.

Still doesn't excuse other Erza stuff though...

If it can easily countered with "This is just a memories", those three attacking Erza would just disappear already as Neinhart clearly said how his skill is based on memories front of Erza, Kagura and Jellal yet they still received significant impact. Also, Ul didn't banish after Gray saying "She's just a memories", she's just taking hit from Gray skill (which seems to damage nothing) while Lyon doesn't really feel its okay to hurt Ul who is mother figure for both him and Gray despite only a replica from memories.

[Kafriel]

Undoing historia seems to be a special magic possibly connected to Erza's bloodline (conqueror's haki style). Historia also can't be weak or easy to counter; Nineheart is one of the S12, after all...but since both of these have not been explored in depth, I'll wait a few chapters and see what Mashima makes out of the whole situation.