Location: In the office, staring at my secretary shipgirl
Age: 37
A carrier-capable version of the Shiden Kai was tested on Shinano along with the Raiden. It's only when we talk about any version of the Shinden that things will be pretty dicey due to the layout of the plane.
Estavali's explanations could make sense if this situation was set earlier in the series.
Actually Estavali's explanations can only really work AFTER everything she's gone through: basically, when she's already done a lot of noteworthy things. Because she feels that she's accomplished a lot of things to be commended for (and she even did get commended by her idol Akagi), the fact that their ultimate authority suddenly disbanded her fleet and had her return to the Naval District away from the front lines is a massive blow to her self-esteem, as if Command decided that all of her accomplishments were nothing. A person with low self-esteem who has no accomplishments to their name wouldn't think anything of being thought of as useless since they don't have anything to be prideful of, but said person who has done everything to make a name for themselves and have done a lot suddenly have their hard-earned accomplishments marginalized would feel like life suddenly just up and spat on their efforts. Their accomplishments are their pride, the reason that they can feel that they can feel like they're worth something, and so having said accomplishments be apparently dismissed is painful.
It's the method in which Command did it which makes it painful: they had to dissolve Mobile Group 5, which up to that point had been Fubuki's fleet. Being the flagship of Mobile Group 5 means that their accomplishments are more or less Fubuki's as well, and thus it is the symbol of all the work that Fubuki put in.
Basically, by disbanding Mobile Group 5, it's like Command is saying "your efforts with the group are worthless, we don't need you". Well, not as harsh as that, but it would certainly feel like that. This is something Fubuki cannot feel if it happened any earlier in the series.
__________________
Against all the evil that hell can conjure, all wickedness that mankind can produce... We will send unto them, only you.
However that's not how I read it. From what I see, Fubuki feels that she's being cheated out everything that she deserves. Her "despair" is actually jealousy and indignation over what she saw as a denial of all she has done, all that she has worked so hard for.
The real problem I have with this interpretation is that it actually requires Fubuki to be jealous to begin with or at least envious towards other kanmusu.
I'm not saying Fubuki has to remain pure and righteous from start to finish, but thus far, Fubuki always has been portrayed as a girl who is insecure about herself but tries hard to compensate her shortcomings with training and so forth.
She aspired to be Akagi's escort, but aside when Mutsuki and Yuudachi told her about their new assigned fleet, she didn't show anything that could be relatable with a tendency of envying other people.
She is de facto an hardworker, and not once she ever complained or cursed other kanmusu for being "better than her". She is your usual humble character who prefers to change herself instead of changing the world.
That's the very reason why her reaction towards Yuudachi's promotion then her whining afterwards didn't sink (no pun intended) in well with me.
But beyond her immedate descent to despair, it was also the presentation and the timing of this drama that felt very obnoxious to me, considering how the story progressed thus far. We already went through with Fubuki being a greenhorn, and being promoted to the flagship position can't be just a fluke, but the result of her hard work. Everything wasn't nice and dandy and she did got the short end of a stick a times, but still moved on.
That's why it doesn't make sense for the series to pretend that "maybe the admiral demoted her because she screwed up". Narrative wise, we know it is untrue and it is of course proved afterwards. But in term of presentation, the premise that she might have been demoted is a ludicrous plot point to me.
From that, it is just a matter of perspective, but I really had hard time to stomach that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear
Basically, by disbanding Mobile Group 5, it's like Command is saying "your efforts with the group are worthless, we don't need you". Well, not as harsh as that, but it would certainly feel like that. This is something Fubuki cannot feel if it happened any earlier in the series.
I don't pretend to have a full understanding of her psyche, and context etc would make such claim ludicrous anyway.
That said, I think this train of thought is rather too convenient for the purpose of the drama exactly because her efforts were already acknowledged to begin with.
Being promoted to a Mobile squadron is one thing, but being voted as the flagship by your peers and seniors, THEN being validated by the commander in chief... Everything thus far has been properly credited to her, moreso that nothing in the present would negate such achievements.
Hell, even after Kaga got torpedo-ed hard, the admiral didn't blame her or anything and Nagato even praised her.
So really, it is quite difficult to relate with a possible "what i've done was useless to begin with" since the achievements were done, and no one stated they were useless.
If Nagato said something like "Mobile Squadron Five performances are not acceptable anymore" or something, I would buy that. But it is exactly after everything she went through that this train of thought is invalid in my eyes, since there is nothing that would make one to jump to the conclusion "well, it sucked".
If the fleet disband occured right after their sortie against the Chi-class, I wouldn't complain much about Fubuki dismay. But after the Flagship promotion etc? Color me perplexed.
Well, it isn't like I need to be convinced or I need to convince you either. I'm just giving explanations why it just doesn't cut it for me.
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Didn't mean to land another "negative blow", but after watching this episode a second time, I guess it is the usual "something went wrong with the production".
Spoiler for fucked up cuts:
I've suspected something to be amiss upon my first watch, but it was quite obvious on the second time...
Nagato's speech time:
In this very first picture, we can deduce most Kanmusu's positions. For sake of avoiding confusion, here is how rows are placed from Nagato's perspective:
First Row: Kirishima, Haruna, Hiei, Kongou, Kaga, Akagi, Souryuu, Hiryuu
Second Row: [...] Nachi, Myoukou, Atago, Takao, Tone, Chikuma
Third Row: [...] Tama, Kuma, Sendai, Jintsuu, Naka
However...
Things aren't looking well:
-Takao is either much shorter than Atago (unlikely), or she is now between the first and second row.
-Likewise, Sendai sisters are no longer on the same row as Kuma and Tama which doesn't make sense in term of perspective with the first picture.
Please note that Mutsuki, Fubuki and Yuudachi are in the same row behind Tama.
Now, things are even more troublesome:
This cut confirms that Atago and Takao are supposed to be on the same row, but the previous picture contradicts with this.
What's even more obvious though is that all the carriers are suddenly very close to each other. Kaga and Souryuu were like 2-3 full steps away from Akagi, but they are suddenly next to each other.
Likewise, Tone is now next to Takao, despite Jintsuu could easily step between the two with the second picture.
Speaking of Jintsuu, this picture confirm she and her sisters are behind the heavy cruisers, so on the third row. That said, due to the angle, it should have been Sendai, not Jintsuu. The latter would be hidden by Takao. So either Sendai and Jintsuu swapped pla,ces or the 3 sisters moved even more on their right.
And now the coup de grace:
For unknown reasons, Sendai, Jintsuu and Naka are IN FRONT of Tama and Kuma. They literally swapped places with Myoukou, Atago and Takao.
Meanwhile, Yuudachi is steps away from Fubuki, almost as if she was in the row BEHIND her.
I don't think it is being picky for exposing the obvious consistency issues of the series.
If it was a well animated sequence that would make animators lose track of certain details like smoke, bullets etc, I wouldn't mind much.
The thing is that, considering the value of the franchise here, and yet the very static presentation of it, it is just a downer to see such obvious production mishaps. Whereas I can sort of "buy" what happened in ep6 to a certain extent, it is clearly not the case in ep7 and 9.
Frankly, it is very same kind of mistakes that only minor franchise could get a free pass, even moreso since these cuts are nothing but static characters.
Real life + Game explanation of anime teitoku's behavior.
>>> Yeah! I got Fubuki from sortie (Ep.1)
>>> Let send her to fight to gain some lv. so I can turn her to kai ni and put her in my main fleet (Carrier 1div) (Ep.2-4)
>>> Ok, need to speed up. I will put her as flagship so she can get to her Kai ni faster (Ep.5-8)
>>> Wait what?? Yuudachi can become Kai ni now??? (Ep.9)
>>>> *Remodel Yuudachi* Wow she looks so much better! Sorry Fubuki, I have sold my soul to the demon of solomon. I will put you in the dock forever. (Ep.9)
>>>> What is that?? Wo-class Flagship Kai!!!!!??? *got Air Denial* NOOOOOOO!!! Fubuki, I'm sorry please become kai ni for me! I need your AA-cut-in. (Ep.9)
I don't think it is being picky for exposing the obvious consistency issues of the series.
If it was a well animated sequence that would make animators lose track of certain details like smoke, bullets etc, I wouldn't mind much.
The thing is that, considering the value of the franchise here, and yet the very static presentation of it, it is just a downer to see such obvious production mishaps. Whereas I can sort of "buy" what happened in ep6 to a certain extent, it is clearly not the case in ep7 and 9.
Frankly, it is very same kind of mistakes that only minor franchise could get a free pass, even moreso since these cuts are nothing but static characters.
Agree here, I means considering fandom collection tends to be really detail on how perfect their collected goods are (not only anime fans, fans of any hobbies will tell you the same thing), it will seriously affect the name of the franchise and fans' desires to collect that goods it if it contains some obvious flaws. And yes the more devoting a fan of franchise is, the more attentive-to-detail (or nitpicking if you like to call it) he/she will be.
Of course there is still the fix over BD release, and that would be what really matter nowadays. Let's just hope they will do it properly. The PV was almost flawless so i think they are capable of that (especially if they want have good reputationon their brand). Haven't checked Kyoani recently, but their brand was seriously boosted after fans showed how attentive-to-detail the Haruhi BD release is back at the day. Same to SHAFT
I just caught back up on this show. The show has maintained a pretty good balance of action, comedy, and SoL.
For this episode in particular, I really like Yuudachi's upgrade. She looked cute before, but now she looks impressive. Leaves me wondering what Fubuki will look like after her coming upgrade... Leaving viewers with such a teasing thought was a great way to end the episode.
As for the discussion on Fubuki's distress in this episode...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estavali
From what I see, Fubuki feels that she's being cheated out everything that she deserves. Her "despair" is actually jealousy and indignation over what she saw as a denial of all she has done, all that she has worked so hard for.
It might be still okay if it's just Yuudachi getting her Kai Ni before her ("Well, can't be helped"), or even Yuudachi getting that coveted place in the First Fleet and thus the chance to fight by Akagi's side ("More sense to have her there than me"). I believe the final nail in this coffin is the dissolution the Fifth Fleet, relieving Fubuki of command and sending her away from the front, which she might have interpreted as "You're not needed any more". Would a person who's beaten down by an overwhelming sense of inferiority cry the way she did? I doubt so; those are the tears of someone who is confident of her own contributions but is disappointed that her efforts are not just overlooked but also dismissed without a satisfying explanation. In her mind, she probably asked why the Admiral who had been so encouraging back then, would now be so cruel.
Fubuki's gloom carries an unspoken complaint, that the Admiral is being unfair to her, that after all she has gone through, she deserves better than this supposed humiliation. That's probably why Fubuki is disgusted with that dream of hers. She might have realized that it's a projection of her jealousy, an ugly emotion that also accuses one of her best friends of robbing her.
If you think about it, if the cause of her depression is insecurity, then what happened at harbor during Yuudachi's training would not make much sense. Why would she cheer up after knowing that she's not alone in her diligence and that Yuudachi actually does deserve her power-up? Fubuki had probably realized, perhaps with some shame, her own conceit. Just because she has worked hard doesn't mean the rest haven't; her own achievements doesn't necessary put her above the rest, who themselves would have contributions of their own. Ultimately it boils down to a matter of acceptance; she might not like her orders but at least she no longer feels marginalized because of them.
Very well-said. That's pretty much my take as well.
I didn't get the impression of Fubuki feeling inferior.
Quite the contrary - What I saw was someone who has been performing very well, and who knows that she's been performing very well, and so the events of this episode naturally leave her going "Why?!"
Fubuki's a nice girl who does a good job of sounding humble, but I'm sure deep down she realizes she's been doing a very good job. So the events of this episode simply leave her bewildered and distressed, as I think they would most people in her circumstances.
Also, it's important to realize just how harsh the double-whammy is here. Not only does Yuudachi get to do exactly what Fubuki would want to do (get upgraded and get promoted to the main fleet), but at the same time, Fubuki feels like she's losing a source of pride and proof of accomplishment - Being the flagship of the Fifth Fleet.
That doesn't remove what she's already accomplished, but then Fubuki is young, and (mostly) lives in the moment. Her current status is important, for while her accomplishments thus far have been very nice, it's not like she's ready to call it a career, if you catch my drift. She wants to keep doing well, and keep being in a place of prominence. Feeling like she's losing that will negatively impact her regardless of how she feels about her accomplishments to date.
Being promoted to a Mobile squadron is one thing, but being voted as the flagship by your peers and seniors, THEN being validated by the commander in chief... Everything thus far has been properly credited to her, moreso that nothing in the present would negate such achievements.
Hell, even after Kaga got torpedo-ed hard, the admiral didn't blame her or anything and Nagato even praised her.
So really, it is quite difficult to relate with a possible "what i've done was useless to begin with" since the achievements were done, and no one stated they were useless.
If Nagato said something like "Mobile Squadron Five performances are not acceptable anymore" or something, I would buy that. But it is exactly after everything she went through that this train of thought is invalid in my eyes, since there is nothing that would make one to jump to the conclusion "well, it sucked".
If the fleet disband occured right after their sortie against the Chi-class, I wouldn't complain much about Fubuki dismay. But after the Flagship promotion etc? Color me perplexed.
Well, it isn't like I need to be convinced or I need to convince you either. I'm just giving explanations why it just doesn't cut it for me.
From what I gather, the thing about people (?) like Fubuki is that being acknowledged for their efforts actually isn't enough. They can praise you all they want for your prior accomplishments and what not, and in fact you can feel a sense of vindication at what you've done. However, Fubuki is not the kind of person who is satisfied simply with having laurels. She is the kind who has to get MORE, who feels that she has to keep going, to keep accomplishing great things (a minor glimpse of this can be seen from Fubuki's reaction to Mutsuki's suggestion about Akagi's headpats).
At the same time, her prior accomplishments being important are exactly what's keeping up her self-esteem, the support to a girl who once had the displeasure of being a clumsy girl with no skill. Undermine the importance of her past accomplishments, of all that she's done, and her entire self-esteem goes broke, which is exactly what happened.
Basically speaking, Fubuki needs those accomplishments to vindicate herself, and so has to keep working hard to achieve such things, like propping up more foundations to keep her shaky house steady. However, if the accomplishments she feels proud of is not appreciated and even undermined in such a manner, then at that point she'd feel that perhaps her hard work would never be enough.
Fubuki isn't the kind of person who can support their self-esteem simply by knowing that they've accomplished something great and sustain herself off that knowledge. Her self-esteem is not one where she can just pile up all her accomplishments and it just constantly rises, she needs her vindication to keep it from going down. She needs to constantly reaffirm herself and her hard work to keep herself going in life.
Granted, some of what I described seems a bit extreme, but the general gist is more or less there.
Edit: Shame there's no dedicated OC/Fanfic section for Kancolle, would've shared that FSN x KC story I'm currently writing...
__________________
Against all the evil that hell can conjure, all wickedness that mankind can produce... We will send unto them, only you.
From what I gather, the thing about people (?) like Fubuki is that being acknowledged for their efforts actually isn't enough. They can praise you all they want for your prior accomplishments and what not, and in fact you can feel a sense of vindication at what you've done. However, Fubuki is not the kind of person who is satisfied simply with having laurels. She is the kind who has to get MORE, who feels that she has to keep going, to keep accomplishing great things (a minor glimpse of this can be seen from Fubuki's reaction to Mutsuki's suggestion about Akagi's headpats).
At the same time, her prior accomplishments being important are exactly what's keeping up her self-esteem, the support to a girl who once had the displeasure of being a clumsy girl with no skill. Undermine the importance of her past accomplishments, of all that she's done, and her entire self-esteem goes broke, which is exactly what happened.
Basically speaking, Fubuki needs those accomplishments to vindicate herself, and so has to keep working hard to achieve such things, like propping up more foundations to keep her shaky house steady. However, if the accomplishments she feels proud of is not appreciated and even undermined in such a manner, then at that point she'd feel that perhaps her hard work would never be enough.
Fubuki isn't the kind of person who can support their self-esteem simply by knowing that they've accomplished something great and sustain herself off that knowledge. Her self-esteem is not one where she can just pile up all her accomplishments and it just constantly rises, she needs her vindication to keep it from going down. She needs to constantly reaffirm herself and her hard work to keep herself going in life.
Granted, some of what I described seems a bit extreme, but the general gist is more or less there.
Well said, Lowe =3.
Another reason, I think, why she pushes herself so is to repay the expectations placed on her. Both the Admiral and Akagi had showed faith in her even during her ugly duckling days and I think in her gratitude, she might want to prove them right =3
Quote:
Edit: Shame there's no dedicated OC/Fanfic section for Kancolle, would've shared that FSN x KC story I'm currently writing...
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