Fate/stay night Game discussion (Warning: Spoilers)

[sona-nyl]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

It will be the True End. It would really piss off Sakura fans otherwise.

And aside from that the normal end offers no kind of resolution to Illya's character arc at all. Which isn't really something you'd want for one of the most important characters in your movie.

[mirakura]

Originally Posted by Usami_Haru

And aside from that the normal end offers no kind of resolution to Illya's character arc at all. Which isn't really something you'd want for one of the most important characters in your movie.

I don't see a point in arguing if they're gonna use normal or true end. After all, it's called 'true end' for a reason. And it's the end that should happen as it's 'fate'. Especially when it sums up more things than the 'normal' or 'good' end does.

And the answer for the Excalibur thing:

Originally Posted by T-moon

"May this light reach the king who never can be reached. Can you withstand this fragment of a true holy sword?"
—Archer

Excalibur Image: Forever Distant Golden Sword ( 永久に遙か黄金の剣エクスカリバー・イマージュ , Eikyuu ni Haruka Ōgon no KenEkusukaribā Imāju ?) is a degraded version of Excalibur utilized by Archer that can only be utilized within Unlimited Blade Works. It is normally impossible for Unlimited Blade Works to replicate Excalibur through projection, but the conditions for where wrought iron is possible are boosted within the Moon Cell to allow for the replication of holy-sword class weaponry with inferior performance compared to the originals.

Seeing as Archer's is still downgraded even if it's Archer. Archer's quote 'fragment' meaning it's not even up to half Excalibur's true power .I'm guessing this is the same version as Shirou's or that Shirou's was much weaker.

[Mcfart]

Shirou had no problem copying Berserker's weapon, which is divine too isn't it, since the hero and all is divine? So why coulden't Excaliber be traced? AND DOES IT EVEN MATTER HE NEVER TRIES TO TRACE IT IN ORGINAL FSN LOL.

[GDB]

No, it's a slab of rock with nothing special about it.

And actually, Shirou does try to trace it in Heaven's Feel.

So far I believe the only known Divine Constructs in the series are Excalibur, Ea, and Ig-Alima.

[Lorhand]

Originally Posted by Mcfart

Shirou had no problem copying Berserker's weapon, which is divine too isn't it, since the hero and all is divine? So why coulden't Excaliber be traced? AND DOES IT EVEN MATTER HE NEVER TRIES TO TRACE IT IN ORGINAL FSN LOL.

Berserker's weapon wasn't divine at all. It was a rock from a Heracles temple.

And Shirou did try to project Excalibur in HF Normal End. Black Excalibur is still Excalibur and thus a divine construct. Nasu says he can't do it in CM3 and he will project a different sword, but that doesn't seem to make sense to some people. Also, there is no definition for "divine construct". We are only given examples like Excalibur or Ea.

[ShadowSamurai365]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

Berserker's weapon wasn't divine at all. It was a rock from a Heracles temple.

And Shirou did try to project Excalibur in HF Normal End. Black Excalibur is still Excalibur and thus a divine construct. Nasu says he can't do it in CM3 and he will project a different sword, but that doesn't seem to make sense to some people. Also, there is no definition for "divine construct". We are only given examples like Excalibur or Ea.

Do you know what materials was used to make the original Excalibur? The reason I'm asking this is about what I've read on the wiki (even though the information might not be factual) about Shirou's/Archer's Reality Marble. It says about the Reality Marble being able to collect (not sure this is the right word) materials that exist in the present world, thus allowing Shirou/Archer to create/duplicate weapons.

As someone who has played the game, does it state the details of the Reality Marble (thus whether or not the information in the previous paragraph is true or not)?

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

Nasu says he can't do it in CM3 and he will project a different sword, but that doesn't seem to make sense to some people.

No, it doesn't make sense full stop, because UBW does not store swords in categories like "blows shit up effectively". Shirou cannot accidentally trace the wrong sword, and he certainly wasn't thinking "I'm going to trace something a bit like Excalibur" at the time. It's abundantly clear that he was intending to trace Excalibur, which means that what he got was either Excalibur or his best effort at replicating it. Not a sword with a completely different history that happens to have a similar ability.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

The guy can perfectly trace Avalon thus Nasu is full of shit.. again. He can trace Divine weapons according to the VN it's just exponentially harder (as in he may requires such a divine weapon for large periods of time and maybe it has to be a part of him). On the flip side it allows him to produce perfect copies.

What Nasu attempted to do was a blatant retcon but looking at the source material alone he can.

Remember this is same guy who basically shrugged when asked precisely why characters outside of their growth periods grew significant amounts (Kotomine and archer) the interview even asked if it was due to magic, Nasu couldn't answer the question.
The dude wings his stories a fair bit which is the main reason for the inconsistencies and retcons.

[mirakura]

Yep, the kinda. It says he can only trace it in his reality marble and in a place like Moon Cell. Even so, it will still be only a fragment of the actual thing. As for Ea, we know that's impossible :P

Excalibur was made from faerie materials lol. It was literally made in another world unlike the other weapons which were made on Earth, the age of gods or not. I honestly don't believe Shirou can trace something that was made in faerie island, made from materials that human technology will never grasp. If facts say other wise, then maybe. Even Archer wasn't able to trace Excalbur. A fragment, yeah, but Excalibur, no. I believe that cos it was in Extra :3

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by mirakura

Yep, the kinda. It says he can only trace it in his reality marble and in a place like Moon Cell. Even so, it will still be only a fragment of the actual thing. As for Ea, we know that's impossible :P

Excalibur was made from faerie materials lol. It was literally made in another world unlike the other weapons which were made on Earth, the age of gods or not. I honestly don't believe Shirou can trace something that was made in faerie island, made from materials that human technology will never grasp. If facts say other wise, then maybe. Even Archer wasn't able to trace Excalbur. A fragment, yeah, but Excalibur, no. I believe that cos it was in Extra :3

Aside from he can perfectly trace Avalon, made from the same place you know Avalon which is the far more important NP EX rank and all that. Outside his reality marble no less. Shirou is limited by the amount of time spent with the weapons. Aside from Ea the VN implied he could trace anything perfectly with enough time with it. Sadly most of the worthwhile NP he only merely looked at during the HGW not properly study.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Aside from he can perfectly trace Avalon, made from the same place you know Avalon which is the far more important NP. Outside his reality marble no less. Shirou is limited by the amount of time spent with the weapons. Aside from Ea the VN implied he could trace anything perfectly with enough time with it. Sadly most of the worthwhile NP he only merely look at during the HGW not properly study.

In the UBW route we still don't know for sure what happened with Ea after Gil dropped it. Since the Tohsaka heirloom from the future that Archer gave Rin did not seem to disappear, maybe the same applies to Gil's Ea. So there is a possibility that it still lies inside Shirou's UBW and can be studied.

[mirakura]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Aside from he can perfectly trace Avalon, made from the same place you know Avalon which is the far more important NP EX rank and all that. Outside his reality marble no less. Shirou is limited by the amount of time spent with the weapons. Aside from Ea the VN implied he could trace anything perfectly with enough time with it. Sadly most of the worthwhile NP he only merely looked at during the HGW not properly study.

And have you forgotten Avalon was inside his for 10 years? The thing that literally merged with his soul, changing both his origin and element? It's already a part of him, so he can obviously trace it Not meaning to be rude :3

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by mirakura

And have you forgotten Avalon was inside his for 10 years? The thing that literally merged with his soul, changing both his origin and element? It's already a part of him, so he can obviously trace it Not meaning to be rude :3

That's the point. God forged weapons can be traced by him. If only gods could create something like Avalon and it was some impossible construct he wouldn't be able to trace it regardless how long he had it. Plus not only can he trace it he can make a perfect copy meaning he has the means to produce god forged weapons. As in he can reproduce fairy made weapons the only thing limiting him is time and understanding.

[Lorhand]

Originally Posted by ShadowSamurai365

Do you know what materials was used to make the original Excalibur? The reason I'm asking this is about what I've read on the wiki (even though the information might not be factual) about Shirou's/Archer's Reality Marble. It says about the Reality Marble being able to collect (not sure this is the right word) materials that exist in the present world, thus allowing Shirou/Archer to create/duplicate weapons.

As someone who has played the game, does it state the details of the Reality Marble (thus whether or not the information in the previous paragraph is true or not)?

Excalibur is described as a weapon that was crystallised within Earth and uses wishes of mankind as a basis (CM3 I think). As for Shirou's projection, these are the steps:

Judging the concept of creation,
hypothesizing the basic structure,
duplicating the composition material,
imitating the skill of its making,
sympathizing with the experience of its growth,
reproducing the accumulated years,
excelling every manufacturing process

I think it was from... Fate? When he projected Caliburn against Berserker. As for what materials the RM can collect, I don't remember where this part with "materials present on Earth" comes from.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

No, it doesn't make sense full stop, because UBW does not store swords in categories like "blows shit up effectively". Shirou cannot accidentally trace the wrong sword, and he certainly wasn't thinking "I'm going to trace something a bit like Excalibur" at the time. It's abundantly clear that he was intending to trace Excalibur, which means that what he got was either Excalibur or his best effort at replicating it. Not a sword with a completely different history that happens to have a similar ability.

You already discussed this on other forums like BL and I have no intention to discuss something we've been over hundreds of times, which is why I don't care whether it makes sense to you or not. You can go discuss this with Nasu.

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

The guy can perfectly trace Avalon thus Nasu is full of shit.. again. He can trace Divine weapons according to the VN it's just exponentially harder (as in he may requires such a divine weapon for large periods of time and maybe it has to be a part of him). On the flip side it allows him to produce perfect copies.

Actually, Nasu can come up with a wonderful excuse here with Avalon, because he doesn't list Avalon as a divine construct and he never explained what a divine construct actually is. Also, there was this thing with Shirou being fused with it, which allowed him to omit every step of manufacture.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

Excalibur is described as a weapon that was crystallised within Earth and uses wishes of mankind as a basis (CM3 I think). As for Shirou's projection, these are the steps:



I think it was from... Fate? When he projected Caliburn against Berserker. As for what materials the RM can collect, I don't remember where this part with "materials present on Earth" comes from.



You already discussed this on other forums like BL and I have no intention to discuss something we've been over hundreds of times, which is why I don't care whether it makes sense to you or not. You can go discuss this with Nasu.



Actually, Nasu can come up with a wonderful excuse here with Avalon, because he doesn't list Avalon as a divine construct and he never explained what a divine construct actually is. Also, there was this thing with Shirou being fused with it, which allowed him to omit every step of manufacture.

Lol you realise what Avalon is right? It's produced by the Lady of the Lake the same way Excalibur is. There is no ambiguity in it's origins. It has fairy writing and it's more powerful than Excalibur far more.

It IS a divine construct by in the same way Excalibur is one they both go hand in hand if one isn't neither is the other.

[Lorhand]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Lol you realise what Avalon is right? It's produced by the Lady of the Lake the same way Excalibur is. There is no ambiguity in it's origins. It has fairy writing and it's more powerful than Excalibur far more.

I actually do, thank you. Still, he doesn't explain what a divine construct is, so there is no way to answer back. It's reasonable to assume that they are made the same, but Nasu can come up with as many excuses as he likes here.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

I actually do, thank you. Still, he doesn't explain what a divine construct is, so there is no way to answer back.

A weapon created by the gods. I'm pretty sure that's what the literal translation of what the Japanese says. In this context fairies are the gods.

[GDB]

Divine Construct: Check this box to keep Emiya Shirou and Archer from showing up the King of Heroes.

[mirakura]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Lol you realise what Avalon is right? It's produced by the Lady of the Lake the same way Excalibur is. There is no ambiguity in it's origins. It has fairy writing and it's more powerful than Excalibur far more.

It IS a divine construct by in the same way Excalibur is one they both go hand in hand if one isn't neither is the other.

By produced you mean given right? Cos the faeries gave the Lady of the Lake both of them. She didn't make it...

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by mirakura

By produced you mean given right? Cos the faeries gave the Lady of the Lake both of them. She didn't make it...

In Arthurian Legend she did. Or at least the most well known and common.