2013-11-22, 20:28 | Link #2621 | |
Ass connoisseur
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 37
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2013-11-22, 21:16 | Link #2622 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 54
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ISML is a rare exception among Saimoe events in letting older girls participate. This attracted the fans of the "same old girls", and since these "same old girls" win much, its fans have more reason to stay around while fans of other girls tend to get discouraged and leave. Over years, this has accumulated to the state we have now. This is why ISML have so many devices built in to keep the MINORITY fans of WEAKER girls around as much as possible. We just hope that it is enough to buy us sufficient time for these "same old girls" to weaken and be replaced by new girls. Best Moe Tournament, at one point in the time, was the international alternative for those who wanted things to resemble J AST more. It sadly degraded and is no longer a viable alternative. If people wanted something like AST ( now it would really help if people define what quality they find really desirable from AST ) without the problems of ISML ( and again, it would help if people define what qualities they want to avoid ) , the only way to have one that also supports multiple languages and promotes international participation is to make one yourself, here. ISML got started from AnimeSuki from these discussions. There is no reason why another International Saimoe Event can't be started here. What is important is for the makers to be sure what they want, what they want to avoid, and then take the pain to think through what are the possible consequences of any choice they make, and how best to keep things fair. Any little choice may have far reaching consequences, so think carefully. It is doable, so why not try?
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2013-11-22, 21:53 | Link #2623 |
Raindrop Melancholy
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Things I like best about AST (pre-2011 at least), which I also want them in a new Saimoe tournament if possible:
- Diverse taste - The direct elimination format that gives more feelings of a competition. - Promoting newcomers and new series each year (with each champions except this year being newcomers from notable series of the respective year). This is helped by the restriction of allowing only series aired in a specific year-time, but to prevent overdomination, we could add one more rule: do not allow previous champions to participate in the next years.
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2013-11-22, 22:52 | Link #2625 |
Raindrop Melancholy
Join Date: Jul 2009
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I know that well, so I won't put it as one of the top priorities in a new competition, it's just something that I like in the older days of AST. Though wontaek did mention some way to encourage it so I sometimes do consider.
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2013-11-22, 22:56 | Link #2626 | |
Stupidity is Bliss.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: In Hancock's Heart
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The maximum of the faction should be considered here, assuming that the PMMM faction only has not more than 300 voters left(which I think has been the case here): -If Sayaka beats Madoka gaining like 240 or even lesser like 210 while Madoka only gets like 190 or 200, she had help from the anti-Madoka faction, which quite reflects what had happened to Mami against Sayaka. Mami got herself loads of haters for defeating Saki top tiers, especially Toki. -If Sayaka wins around 190 or 200 WHILE Madoka ONLY gets like 120 or 110, the PMMM faction had definitely chosen Sayaka to win it all, this reflects what happened in Madoka- Kyoko match which, IMO, was a non-tactical voting match. It was a bit if we count the few non-PMMMs who voted for Kyouko. I believe no boosting happened, the faction has always voted for the girl they've always liked imo and I haven't seen any change in that. Last edited by BaKaBaKaOtaKu; 2013-11-22 at 23:29. |
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2013-11-22, 23:01 | Link #2627 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 54
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2. Would need more details as to the direct elimination. For example, do you mean accepting only 1vs1 matches? Can match with 7 contestants, with 3 surviving to the next round be allowed? Please keep in mind that 1vs1 matches have much problems. Also consider that one of good ways to encourage diversity is to have a format which lets voters choose more than 1 characters in each group. Having voters think about their 2nd choice among anime series which isn't their favorite is one of the good ways to make them try out new series and also allows smaller factions a chance to attract new voters. 3. This is easy part as most events follow "appearance within 1 year rule". Only twist is the past champion thing. I recommend not letting the champion appear in the immediate year following their win, but allow them to return if there is more than 1 year gap. For example, 2013 winner can't appear in 2014 event, but may return in 2015. The reason is, (1) I doubt any champion can maintain their strength for so long (2) Having a champion a token chance to repeat is not too bad.
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Last edited by wontaek; 2013-11-22 at 23:34. |
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2013-11-22, 23:47 | Link #2629 | |
The Akita
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Long Beach, CA
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2013-11-23, 00:06 | Link #2630 | |
Raindrop Melancholy
Join Date: Jul 2009
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2. One of the things that bothered me in round 1-2 of AST is that there are a lot of boring matches consisting only girls from weaker factions or predictable one-sided matches with the stronger factions come out on top. I agree with your point about the format of choosing more than 1 character to advance in one round, since it allow more diversity, also more competitiveness in later rounds. It also allows characters with more realistic chances to win the tournament to go deeper. I want this format to be done in preliminaries and 2-3 rounds in the main tournament (and we can reshuffle the characters into new different groups every time a new round begins), then started with the 1 vs 1 matches when the number of contestants have been cut down to like, top 32. 3. Yes, that would be reasonable enough.
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2013-11-23, 00:26 | Link #2632 | |
Mishaguji-sama
Join Date: Oct 2010
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2013-11-23, 00:36 | Link #2633 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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For Saimoe itself, aside from the double elimination styling that is new to this year, the only thing they keep changing for sure is the restrictions. If one wants to see some diverse tastes and more interesting matchups, open up the restrictions on international IPs. Then they will start getting probably 5 times the number of voters again.
For ISML...the system seems fine now. The problem seems to be more that the incoming girls don't get enough of a following, and that's not the tournament's fault. That is the voters. Since everyone has to come in via the nominations period, that is when a newbie needs support to get in. After that its is up to the voters for the 72 girls involved. The older girls will eventually fade. It has happened already. How many girls from 2008 are still even in the tournament in 2013? 13 by my count.
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2013-11-23, 00:58 | Link #2634 |
Defying gravity
Join Date: Jul 2010
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@BloodyKitty: You can buy KBM and call it IBM (International Best Moe). It had most of the things you want: a single-elimination style tournament with girls that were present in a specific time period, and it all comes with some form of preliminary and main tournament seeding (to an extent, diversity, although that is a bit of a stretch to call). Add in a few more tweaks that may suit your interest on how the tournament should be like, and you're done.
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2013-11-23, 01:21 | Link #2636 | ||||
Senior Member
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Character boosting based on the most recent anime installment featuring that character is not at all unusual, and there's several pretty obvious cases of it (ex. Ayase in ISML this year was clearly boosted by the final season of Ore no Imouto; ex 2. Tomoka was likely boosted by the final episode of her anime, helping her win a Block in J-SaiMoe 2013). So there's much more precedent and basis for that idea than your relatively wild and speculative "Anti-PMMM faction still cares even if its major PMMM girl vs. major PMMM girl" theory. Quote:
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For example, some people here dislike MadoMagi domination in this tournament, but still have a preference in this final match (and it doesn't seem to be based on spite). Quote:
You act like character boosting is some strange thing, but it isn't. Not at all. And it sometimes benefits certain characters more than others. Going back to Ayase, Ore no Imouto's 2nd Season benefited her more than it did Kirino, even though Kirino is the more important character of the two.
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Tags |
2013, anime saimoe tournament, saimoe, tournament |
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