Madoka Magica - Movie 3 Spoilers and Speculations

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Was this explained at some point, or is it conjecture? I always interpreted that the soul became the witch, rather than disappear.

I don't think they ever explained it so I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by Wanderer

As far as this timeline's QB is concerned, MG souls disappear due to the Law of Cycles taking them away. He had never even observed a real witch transformation, so I interpreted QB's observation to be surprise that the Law of Cycles wasn't taking effect.

Judging by his discussion with Homura when the latter finds out he's the mastermind, QB seems to know quite a lot about the mechanics of witch transformation. What you said makes sense though.

Either way, my point stands. Her soul gem is filled with curses darker than curses. She should become a witch. But, due to her love, she's able to reject both the Cycle of Life/Law of Cycle and the witch transformation. That's why she's neither magical girl nor witch. As why she calls herself the Devil... imo that's a personal choice based on the fact that she opposes Madoka, who is regarded as God.

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Is it the same "witch's barrier" of hers that she was lost in for the first half of the film?

I suppose it's something like that. At any rate, she got the idea from there.

[TheToaster]

After reading all the spoilers in this entire thread, I just had to write this little thing. Props to you if you get the reference:

Spoiler for for madoka franchise in a nutshell due to the rebellion story:

Madoka said: "I want to help others. I've never been good at anything. Becoming a magical girl could change that."

This way of thinking would cause her to die.

That was Madoka's fate.

In a scenery I once saw; there was a modest tranquility, and there was a large hope. And when they were trampled upon, a girl rose against it.

In her hand was hope, the hope of salvation.

With powerful strength, the girl fought...and learned of despair.

Madoka says: "I don't want to see magical girls cry. I want to see them smiling to the very end." That way of thinking would destroy her own happiness. That is Madoka's bliss.

Foolish Madoka! Be imprisoned by my absolute power! Prostrate yourself before your overwhelming happiness and tranquility! Before the name of the Homu Queen!

Lie in the depths of this reality, my foolish friend. That is your eternal fate.

[VirgilTheart]

As an admittedly very casual fan who hasn't seen the original series since it first wrapped up over two years ago, I have to say that I'm personally not all that surprised by the spoilers for the new film.

Does it unravel the hopeful message that the original finale gave? Yes. But from a narrative perspective, I'm not at all surprised to see Homura end up like this. I'm actually very interested in watching the movie when it comes out in the States in December and I suspect I'll probably follow whatever happens next in the world of PMMM with a lot more interest.

[sailorcrisp]

Hi there,
I couldn't help reading all the speculations for Rebellion and beyond. I am a Homura fan, so hearing about her 180 degree change was a bit depressing....
Anyway, I had read some posts that speculate that the final scene in episode 12 is now non-existent due to Homura's interference. Personally I beg to differ at this point in time. The only reason I do is because of her distorted demon/another dimension type wings she produces. The wings she produces for that second or two when just before she lands with Kyubey, before the credits, are definitely powered by magic by her soul gem. The ones shown after the credits are definitely not the same. As mentioned by Gen I think, the meaning (or something) of those wings will be partly explained in the third movie.
Soooo.... my theory here is that those wings are part of god-Homura, so if that is true, then episode 12's ending still exists! Yay! lol.

Some posts say that Madoka wasn't aware of this change in Rebellion due to Homura suppressing her memories and all. Don't forget, Madoka told Homura that she can see everything- past, future, everything that may or may not happen. All of them. Then I read that Madoka was surprised with that dirty move Homura made and it appeared that Madoka did not anticipate it. Well, don't forget how many times Homura looked surprised or expressed emotion despite knowing what was going to happen. One thing is knowing what will happen, another thing is when it actually does happen. So personally I think Madoka allowed it to happen knowing that there's light at the end of the tunnel. And probably also knowing this would be the best way to save Homura in the end.
Anyway, what happens between Rebellion and that final episode 12 scene?
In a nutshell, my theory is that things look all rosy initially, things start falling apart, Homura is even more distant from Madoka (despite saying they will become enemies, I doubt she really wanted that), grief and despair is building up (since" hope has been locked up"), Homura realises she royally screwed up, then, going by what I read for the final scene in the movie, if suicide is what she's trying to do, then it means despair has finally gotten to her...since a world without Madoka is a world without hope, (as well as the fact that protecting Madoka was her only purpose) then maybe God Madoka emerges at that point and Madoka being Madoka forgives Homura (since I doubt by that stage she's suppressing Madoka's memories) and saves from her "Fall from grace"?
Then as a way to redeem herself, or as a form of penance, Homura reverts back to her magical girl duties, but still has her God Homura powers (the huge weird wings) ridding the world of wraiths and grief and basically protecting the world that Madoka wanted, despite it looking like a wasteland...probably due over time to Homura's selfish wish...based of a weird form of "love" while Madoka had to fix up Homura's mess lol. Hence why Madoka's ribbons are back... It seems Madoka will probably be a while...

Maybe the final outcome will be a dual thing... like Yin and Yang, light and dark co-existing. Madoka's work in the afterlife and Homura's work with the living? A universe based on both of their powers?
Anyway, that's my speculation for Madoka Magica... I really hope Episode 12's ending is still canon.

I think the fact that God Madoka was starting to re-emerge (which means her god nature wasn't undone) as well as the fact Sayaka is in the picture and with her memories, I think that's a sign there is still hope there for a better ending.

By the way...No matter how many times I read it, I still find that very last scene of Rebellion very confusing. Can't wait to watch it though, I may edit this post once I do haha.

Apologies to everyone reading this if it's too long or if there are inaccuracies in the scenes I mentioned!

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by sailorcrisp

Homura, so if that is true, then episode 12's ending still exists! Yay! lol.

If it was god Homura, she wouldn't need to fight at all.

Most likely, that scene from episode 12 takes place before the movie. In fact, that's probably Homura's last battle as a magical girl. The battle when she finally exhausts her soul gem and awaits for Madoka to take her away, leading to the plot of the movie.

Some posts say that Madoka wasn't aware of this change in Rebellion due to Homura suppressing her memories and all. Don't forget, Madoka told Homura that she can see everything- past, future, everything that may or may not happen. All of them.

Her mind is still that of a normal human so even if she can see everything, it doesn't mean she can correctly interpret what she sees. Furthermore, from her perspective, there's no way to confirm she can really see everything.

So personally I think Madoka allowed it to happen knowing that there's light at the end of the tunnel. And probably also knowing this would be the best way to save Homura in the end.

Not a chance. Madoka's not the kind of person that can put on an act, and she wasn't just surprised. She basically was wetting her godly panties, if you know what I mean.

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by sailorcrisp

Hi there,
I couldn't help reading all the speculations for Rebellion and beyond. I am a Homura fan, so hearing about her 180 degree change was a bit depressing....

Yeah, you're telling me. I saw it in the theater unspoiled, and it left me in a state of emotional shock for days. The visuals were just gut-wrenching.

I'm slowly coming to terms with it. Homura always said that she would do anything- that she would bear any sin- to save Madoka. So, her choices make sense and that's why they hurt so much.

Although how much she seemed to enjoy turning into a demon felt very out of character.

Originally Posted by sailorcrisp

Anyway, I had read some posts that speculate that the final scene in episode 12 is now non-existent due to Homura's interference. Personally I beg to differ at this point in time. The only reason I do is because of her distorted demon/another dimension type wings she produces. The wings she produces for that second or two when just before she lands with Kyubey, before the credits, are definitely powered by magic by her soul gem. The ones shown after the credits are definitely not the same. As mentioned by Gen I think, the meaning (or something) of those wings will be partly explained in the third movie.

Well, there's a couple things about that desert scene. First, the wings in the desert scene seem visually different than the wings Homura got in Rebellion. Second, in the desert scene Homura is wearing Madoka's ribbon, but at the end of Rebellion, Homura returned Madoka's ribbon.

Originally Posted by sailorcrisp

Soooo.... my theory here is that those wings are part of god-Homura, so if that is true, then episode 12's ending still exists! Yay! lol.

More likely the scene could still exist but not as the final ending. It would be something just before what happens in Rebellion- the initial step of Homura's betrayal. You see, I've read some theories on Japanese sites, and it seems to be a popular interpretation that Homura was planning her betrayal before Kyuubei even imprisoned her. From what I can tell, this is hinted because Kyuubei thought it strange that Homura's soul gem would have darkened like it had just from Homura fighting normally. (I don't remember the line specifically myself).

From this interpretation, that EP12 desert scene would probably be Homura darkening her own soul gem on purpose, to summon and capture Madoka. The wings she had in the scene were probably from the darkness growing in her soul gem.

Kyuubei's experiment in Rebellion was unforeseen interference with Homura's original plan. Entirely a side-plot.

I'm not entirely sure of all this, of course. I need to see Rebellion again.

Originally Posted by sailorcrisp

I think the fact that God Madoka was starting to re-emerge (which means her god nature wasn't undone) as well as the fact Sayaka is in the picture and with her memories, I think that's a sign there is still hope there for a better ending.

Regarding Sayaka's memory, I may have given some bad info earlier based off of my own misunderstandings.

I realize now that Sayaka doesn't really have her memories, or much of them, at the end. After Homura creates her new world, Sayaka tries to confront her about what she has done. Homura "suggests" (enforces with her magic, probably) that Sayaka will just forget about everything and live happily in this new world as a human. As her memories are vanishing, Sayaka makes one last vow- that she will not forget that Homura is a demon.

On the other hand, it's still true that Madoka's godhood is just barely being suppressed. And even if not because of that, Homura's world will still most certainly collapse somehow. That's the feeling.

[sailorcrisp]

Hmmm... Good points there guys. I still hope Homura will turn around though. Otherwise that very last scene in Rebellion probably means she's lost the plot

[sailorcrisp]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Yeah, you're telling me. I saw it in the theater unspoiled, and it left me in a state of emotional shock for days. The visuals were just gut-wrenching.

I'm slowly coming to terms with it. Homura always said that she would do anything- that she would bear any sin- to save Madoka. So, her choices make sense and that's why they hurt so much.

Although how much she seemed to enjoy turning into a demon felt very out of character.

Yeah I saw that smile or smirk on one of the youtube clips when she changed, and I'm like no way, that can't be her...That facial expression made me shiver.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

I've read some theories on Japanese sites, and it seems to be a popular interpretation that Homura was planning her betrayal before Kyuubei even imprisoned her. From what I can tell, this is hinted because Kyuubei thought it strange that Homura's soul gem would have darkened like it had just from Homura fighting normally. (I don't remember the line specifically myself).

That seems like a stretch to me. The movie seems to suggest that Homura begins to hatch her plan (I wouldn't really call it betrayal, but to each their own) when Madoka tells her about her true feelings. It's also suggested she takes the idea from QB, when the latter explains his own plan to her.

That's too much evidence against a single off-hand line. So off-hand that I can't even recall it.

[sailorcrisp]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

If it was god Homura, she wouldn't need to fight at all.

Most likely, that scene from episode 12 takes place before the movie. In fact, that's probably Homura's last battle as a magical girl. The battle when she finally exhausts her soul gem and awaits for Madoka to take her away, leading to the plot of the movie.



Her mind is still that of a normal human so even if she can see everything, it doesn't mean she can correctly interpret what she sees. Furthermore, from her perspective, there's no way to confirm she can really see everything.



Not a chance. Madoka's not the kind of person that can put on an act, and she wasn't just surprised. She basically was wetting her godly panties, if you know what I mean.

So her expression was that shocked in the movie? I really can't wait to see it properly despite knowing Homura is going to go all Dark side *cries*.

I never really thought that last scene from episode 12 being set just before Rebellion. I just never thought she could manifest those wings by normal magical girl rules. Then again, alot of things regarding Homura defied those rules, like becoming a witch when it's impossible in Madoka's new world and surviving when you destroy your own soul gem. Still....telling Kyubey that the darkening of the soul gem and what she's doing is from love is a bit weird. A odd definition of love lol.
I read somewhere that during the conversation between Homura and Real Kyubey, Homura says she'd rather become a witch than for Kyubey to capture Madoka and naturally gets quite fired up about it. I mean hearing that, you'd think she'll still sacrifice herself to protect Madoka, unless going all demon-ish was supposed to be her version of a sacrifice? And from the look of it, one she seems to enjoy.

[sailorcrisp]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Although how much she seemed to enjoy turning into a demon felt very out of character.

Then again, maybe her character change was a side effect from the transformation? Messed with her head more than she anticipated? In which case....They're all screwed lol.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by sailorcrisp

unless going all demon-ish was supposed to be her version of a sacrifice?

I think it is.

Originally Posted by sailorcrisp

And from the look of it, one she seems to enjoy.

I think that's all just an act. Homura has always been good in that department. At any rate, I don't think she enjoys any of this, but she probably feels she has to do it.

That's just my opinion. You're free to think she's totally evil if you want to. You might be right.

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

That seems like a stretch to me. The movie seems to suggest that Homura begins to hatch her plan (I wouldn't really call it betrayal, but to each their own) when Madoka tells her about her true feelings. It's also suggested she takes the idea from QB, when the latter explains his own plan to her.

That's too much evidence against a single off-hand line. So off-hand that I can't even recall it.

Yeah I know, which is much of the reason I'm not certain.

But, that one line: この時を待っていた。 makes a lot more sense if the plan had been some time in coming.

The theories I read argue that hearing Madoka's "true feelings" reinforced a plan Homura already had.

I really need to see the film again. I probably will in about 2 weeks.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

But, that one line: この時を待っていた。 makes a lot more sense if the plan had been some time in coming.

It's no secret that Homura has always been waiting to meet Madoka again. It's just that at that moment the line acquires another connotation due to what she's about to do.

Originally Posted by Wanderer

The theories I read argue that hearing Madoka's "true feelings" reinforced a plan Homura already had.

But Homura didn't know that Madoka could be trapped in a barrier and all that stuff. She learned all that from QB during the movie. Her plan was all based on QB's ideas.

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by sailorcrisp

I read somewhere that during the conversation between Homura and Real Kyubey, Homura says she'd rather become a witch than for Kyubey to capture Madoka and naturally gets quite fired up about it. I mean hearing that, you'd think she'll still sacrifice herself to protect Madoka, unless going all demon-ish was supposed to be her version of a sacrifice? And from the look of it, one she seems to enjoy.

She doesn't just say that, she does become a witch to protect Madoka from Kyuubei (because of the Homura's barrier that everyone was in, Madoka's god-form was sealed while she was inside of it). Homura became a witch with the intent of being killed by Mami and Kyouko. Somehow this was supposed to keep Kyuubei's hands off of Madoka.

What happens is that Sayaka, who is inside the barrier and knows how it works, gets everyone to break it from the inside so that Homura can reach the real Madoka.

And when she does meet the real Madoka... well, you know that part.

As for motives, even as a demon, Homura's motive is to restore Madoka's existence as a human. She's sacrificing Madoka's freely willed wish, and perhaps the entire world Madoka wanted to protect... all so Madoka can live a normal life again. Because she thinks Madoka would be happiest this way.

Originally Posted by sailorcrisp

Then again, maybe her character change was a side effect from the transformation? Messed with her head more than she anticipated? In which case....They're all screwed lol.

Maybe. Homura's been through a lot both mentally and spiritually.

[woxx]

Originally Posted by sailorcrisp

so hearing about her 180 degree change was a bit depressing....

She never supposed to be a "good" character. That's just huge plot misunderstanding. She repeated many times in original show that she fights only for Madoka's sake.
And don't forget, that she wanted to deal with inqubator's threat too and she finally achieved it in Rebellion.

[Gx Hero]

From what I understand from reading the offical website and various sources something is rebelling against Madoka's new order, after all madoka was meant to become a concept beyond Homura no one else remembers her. And yet she reappears with sakaka.

The question is what strange thing happens, and is Homura or something else being the rebel. What of Kyuubei what side will he take.


Personally I think the new girl has something to do with everything. SHe could be the opposite of madoka in order to balance everything out, she could be an incubator become human, she looks like one, or she could be the witch mami was killed by, small resemblance.

in the end two things are for certain, Homura is basically going to be a central focus, and the new girl has a major role in all of this.

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by Gx Hero

*snip*

WAY too late. Most of the posters here already know which is which. All they're waiting for now is the December airing to get a first-hand look at the execution rather than just relying on second-hand information.

[BloodyKitty]

Questions for those who know Japanese:

- At this point in time how is the overall reception of Japan regarding the movie in general and Homucifer in specific?
- What do they like? What do they not like?
- How is it compared to the Western fans' reception?

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by BloodyKitty

Questions for those who know Japanese:

- At this point in time how is the overall reception of Japan regarding the movie in general and Homucifer in specific?
- What do they like? What do they not like?
- How is it compared to the Western fans' reception?

Someone told me based on the experience:
- Many liked it. Some were disappointed (with Homu) [aka: She was not supposed to be that].
- Just have to wait for someone to watch the movie here and blog it (and find someone who watched it in Japanese).