To Aru Kagaku no Railgun S - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Sackett]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

no drugs are normally use or the level upper won't have been a issue.

Incorrect. It is clearly stated that drugs are part of the curriculum for producing espers.

Think of the Level Upper as an illegal, more intense version of the stuff they normally give the kids.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Sackett

Incorrect. It is clearly stated that drugs are part of the curriculum for producing espers.

Think of the Level Upper as an illegal, more intense version of the stuff they normally give the kids.

Level Upper isn't the drug -_-; You're thinking of [Body Crystal].

In any case people can call it 'medication' if they like; it's basically just stuff that alter your neuro-chemicals and all that. I believe we have those in the real world as well.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Sackett

Incorrect. It is clearly stated that drugs are part of the curriculum for producing espers.

Think of the Level Upper as an illegal, more intense version of the stuff they normally give the kids.

don't remember that part in the LN. vol/chp?

[leukrota]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

don't remember that part in the LN. vol/chp?

Volume 1, chapter 2 from the novels.

They have no problem using drugs on the students, they just won't use on the general population the drugs that haven't been heavily tested (that's what child errors are for )

I mean, why waste many useful lab rats when using a few is enough for testing?

[Ihaxlikenoob]

Originally Posted by leukrota

Volume 1, chapter 2 from the novels.

They have no problem using drugs on the students, they just won't use on the general population the drugs that haven't been heavily tested (that's what child errors are for )

I mean, why waste many useful lab rats when using a few is enough for testing?

You are so cruel, lol.

[Sackett]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Level Upper isn't the drug -_-; You're thinking of [Body Crystal].

In any case people can call it 'medication' if they like; it's basically just stuff that alter your neuro-chemicals and all that. I believe we have those in the real world as well.

No I'm not.

I'm talking about the unnamed drugs they give students to make it possible for them to become espers. One of the side effects is that it modifies there brain in such a way as to make the use of magic impossible. That's why espers can't use magic.

I then suggested that Level Upper could be considered analogous to an illegal, more powerful version of the drug that has significant side effects.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Presumably the same way she doesn't bring chunks of the ground with her whenever she teleports: precise calculations. The whole thing apparently requires her to do ludicrously impossible 11th-dimensional mathematics in her head between the moment she decides she needs to teleport and the moment she actually teleports, all of which determines where she's going, how she'll arrive, what she'll take with her, etc. So she didn't bring whathisname with her when she teleported because she got the math precise enough to not include him when she jumped.

The undergrad aspiring mathematician sizing this statement up... Considering they teach quantum mechanics and that Kuroko is level 4, She must be smart. 11th dimensional topology is deeply correlated with string theory/quantum physics 11 dimensions. I don't see why it's ludicrously impossible. If you practice enough, your brain subconsciously would do it on autopilot. Your frontal consciousness would not be able to do it, but assuming personal reality works in tandem with the subconscious which can process incredibly difficult questions immediately in an incredible manner, this doesn't seem unreasonable. Our subconscious does a lot of things that are ridiculous. This doesn't seem out of the bounds of things that are possible. She doesn't even have to know the general formulas or physics, the subconscious (mentally calculates everything) and your regular conscious converts that into intuition and you "just do it" and she is able to teleport. It's obviously difficult... but after all of the training AC does to its students, at least some of them have to end up being smart. We know from season 1 that she was always exceptionally bright and eager and hardworking... now's she's a pervert *sigh*.

Assuming personal reality does most of the work for you and making these split second decisions becomes natural and is just dependent on theories you have already internalized, doing things like teleportation wouldn't be too hard to figure out. It would be something a non-genius could do, but the way people are raised in AC, I'm sure their IQ's when they're level 4/5 are near genius status at least. Though you don't have to be a genius to learn and just use the formula that's given to you... you need lots of practice...

And I thought episode 4/5 season 1 of Railgun actually completely explained the second part of what you said. You should re-watch it (the part about Touma)...

^^^^^^^ posts above should employ spoiler tags. They don't spoil stuff but are outside of the scope of the episode. (the Accel flashback isn't any grounds to not use spoilers either...)

Anyway, on this topic: Sacket is somewhat right here or at least IMO he is somewhat right:

Spoiler for only revealed in light novels (the actual details of the "happy" curriculum that espers go through):

It's explained in chapter 1 even of the first LN that things done to espers include: drugs injected into your blood vessels or electrodes stabbed through your ears and into your brain, to get powers. Also directly from Index about Mikoto 2 lines later: A dark flame could be felt on the grit of her words that hinted at just how much of her humanity she had abandoned to arrive at the position of one of Academy City’s seven Level 5s.

Academy City’s powers development heavily used things such as pharmaceutics, neuroscience, and cerebral physiology. It was a purely scientific endeavor. After undergoing the Curriculum to a certain extent, one could bend a spoon even without talent. |||||(level 0's not included).

Granted the anime universe is very changed and different from the original universe... so I'm not sure if your point is even relevant. Since it isn't mentioned, I'm not sure it exists... in the anime universe of railgun/raildex...

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by dniv

The undergrad aspiring mathematician sizing this statement up... Considering they teach quantum mechanics and that Kuroko is level 4, She must be smart. 11th dimensional topology is deeply correlated with string theory/quantum physics 11 dimensions. I don't see why it's ludicrously impossible. If you practice enough, your brain subconsciously would do it on autopilot. Your frontal consciousness would not be able to do it, but assuming personal reality works in tandem with the subconscious which can process incredibly difficult questions immediately in an incredible manner, this doesn't seem unreasonable. Our subconscious does a lot of things that are ridiculous. This doesn't seem out of the bounds of things that are possible. She doesn't even have to know the general formulas or physics, the subconscious (mentally calculates everything) and your regular conscious converts that into intuition and you "just do it" and she is able to teleport. It's obviously difficult... but after all of the training AC does to its students, at least some of them have to end up being smart. We know from season 1 that she was always exceptionally bright and eager and hardworking... now's she's a pervert *sigh*.

Assuming personal reality does most of the work for you and making these split second decisions becomes natural and is just dependent on theories you have already internalized, doing things like teleportation wouldn't be too hard to figure out. It would be something a non-genius could do, but the way people are raised in AC, I'm sure their IQ's when they're level 4/5 are near genius status at least. Though you don't have to be a genius to learn and just use the formula that's given to you... you need lots of practice...

For esper, it's as natural as walking or running to a normal person to use their abilities.

It takes plenty of calculations to run too, just that you don't realize it because it's so natural.

[Sackett]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

For esper, it's as natural as walking or running to a normal person to use their abilities.

It takes plenty of calculations to run too, just that you don't realize it because it's so natural.

There are other examples in the real world. Catching a fly ball. Scientists wanted to figure out how people do it. Their first assumption was that people used a visual cue to calculate were to run to. If true then people should run in a curve to catch the ball as they continually update the calculation.

Amateur baseball players did exactly that, but professional baseball players just ran in a straight line, sometime with their eyes off the ball. The calculation to do this would require 3 dimensional calculus. Does anyone think baseball players are consciously using calculus equations?

I myself used to be able to solve multidimensional equations in my head. I couldn't explain how, I just knew the answer. Ticked my teachers off quite a bit. I didn't even realize what I was doing until I became very ill and lost the ability to do it. My sophomore year in college I had to relearn how to do math because I couldn't visualize more than 4 dimensions in my head any more.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

For esper, it's as natural as walking or running to a normal person to use their abilities.

It takes plenty of calculations to run too, just that you don't realize it because it's so natural.

That's what I meant. I'm saying it's natural really.

Originally Posted by Sackett

There are other examples in the real world. Catching a fly ball. Scientists wanted to figure out how people do it. Their first assumption was that people used a visual cue to calculate were to run to. If true then people should run in a curve to catch the ball as they continually update the calculation.

Amateur baseball players did exactly that, but professional baseball players just ran in a straight line, sometime with their eyes off the ball. The calculation to do this would require 3 dimensional calculus. Does anyone think baseball players are consciously using calculus equations?

I myself used to be able to solve multidimensional equations in my head. I couldn't explain how, I just knew the answer. Ticked my teachers off quite a bit. I didn't even realize what I was doing until I became very ill and lost the ability to do it. My sophomore year in college I had to relearn how to do math because I couldn't visualize more than 4 dimensions in my head any more.

I see... but I'm not talking about real world. I'm talking about AC. I think personal reality makes it intuitive and unnecessary to calculate out. They are training their personal realities after all not their math skills ( ) and I'm sorry about that.

[Sackett]

And I was pointing that it's not that big of a stretch from reality.

[Flower]

Ok - finally caught up to ep 11 last night.

I find myself enjoying the 2nd season of railgun for many of the same reasons I enjoyed season 1. I like how it parallels and sheds light on/augments what I have already been exposed to. ^^

Doubly so for the sisters arc....

[greensoulreaper]

Something interesting I found on youtube:

BiriBiri vision sure is colorful...