(L+CR) Free!

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

You seem to not understand. Kyoani need more than just PERMISSION to make more K-On; they need the rights holders to also fork out their share of the money. The studio needed sponsors in order to make the thing. KyoAni isn't Disney; they can't afford it. When they adopt a series they get paid by the sponsors, so their costs are covered no matter how the DVDs sell.

Making original anime is a serious and risky undertaking. They are only now trying it out again.

Tamako Market and Chuunibyou are the original properties they made so far. They get a larger share of the profits, but since they are their own boss they can lose money. Free! would be next.

I can't help but feel it is rather arrogant to demand KyoAni to be more artistic. Especially since the unspoken expectation is that you want them to take risks for your sake. And worse, that you won't compensate for their losses. If KyoAni works are supposedly low on artistic merit, then what are other studios in comparison?

You want KyoAni to make art? Then pay them. That's how artists work, by commission. I am sure KyoAni would make any kind of high brow anime you want, to your specifications, if you just agree to finance them for the service rendered.

The thing is, the people who fork out the money are the people who are listed in the production committee. Does it make sense to you that KyoAni would have enough money to be the right holder, and therefore the sponsor, for a ton of light novel adaptations yet not have the money to make more K-On? Do you think Pony Canyon and TBS would say yes to a risky new production but no to a big, established franchise? Even if KyoAni does lose more money making new properties, why does that mean they couldn't make K-On whenever they wanted?

I'm not saying anything about their artistic merit. As far as I know, they're taking the risks on these unknown franchises to build up their LN publishing name and promote their shop. I'm not asking them to take risks for my sake. I'm saying that if they wanted to make more K-On, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to.

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

Probably better for the general KyoAni thread, but meh. Here's the general production committees and shows:
[list]

Basically the general rule of thumb with committees is that, the higher you are, the more you put in and the more you get in return. Just by taking a look at the structure, you see KyoAni getting much more of the returns for these original shows than by adapting something from Kadokawa/Key. I've not actually seen Key's spot in the production committee for their shows, so I'm not sure where they lie. It's quite simple to see why they want to do originals rather than adaptations: it pays more even if they sell less discs. Of course, they're also running a higher risk.

What's interesting with FREE! is that it's also produced by Asahi Broadcasting (ABC), who already has their site up for the series. As you'll note above, they've not been listed on any of the previous committees, so we're in unchartered territories here. Here's what we know about FREE!'s committee:
KyoAni (animation production/rights holder/original creator)
Asahi Broadcasting (television rights/domestic distribution (TV/internet))
Lantis (music production/distribution)

I agree about Free being interesting because Asahi's producing it. Does it solely mean that KyoAni has another partner to help promote their LN brand? I wonder if they will continue to make Asahi-produced shows, and if they do, if they will be about anything or if they will have similarities/a common genre or something. I imagine they will, but I don't know.

Edit: Okay, maybe a common genre is a bit too much. I'm just curious to know how Asahi-produced shows will differ from Pony Canyon-produced shows. I guess it's too early to tell.

And I just made the connection between what I said and KyoAni's place on the production committee for K-On. Mmm, I guess they weren't as high on the production committee as I thought. How do you know what the order for these are? Are they just on the credits of the show?

[ultimatemegax]

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

I agree about Free being interesting because Asahi's producing it. Does it solely mean that KyoAni has another partner to help promote their LN brand, or does it mean more for the type of content they produce for Asahi-promoted shows? I think it's the former, but I honestly have no clue.

For me, it's more meaningful that KyoAni has another alternative to the TBS/Pony funding clique for their original works so that they're not limited for funding sources in expanding ideas. It could also work better for content as well, but we only have one data point to extrapolate conclusions from so it's too early to predict anything regarding content. Just makes me incredibly happy they're not limited to TBS/Pony.

Edit:

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

And I just made the connection between what I said and KyoAni's place on the production committee for K-On. Mmm, I guess they weren't as high on the production committee as I thought. How do you know what the order for these are? Are they just on the credits of the show?

Yep. They're either in the credits or on the PV in the case for Tamako. The Key/K-On! series has PC/Movic/KA as "production collaboration" in that order, but TBS is the main sponsor for those.

[CJ_Walker]

Although, I don't really approve of anything kyoani has done (except for the first season of haruhi)

I do find it funny the amount of butt hurt people have for others not liking their show for the reason of not wanting to see feminized half naked dues on their screen. I guess only certain opinions are to be respected, while others bashed.

This is pretty much why I stopped being a liberal and started leaning libertarian. i.e. people can like do, say whatever they want as long as it doesn't break laws, or cause physical harm.

Now if someone not liking something for any reason causes some people emotional harm. . .well so what?

Some people like half naked dues on their tv screen, some people don't. This thread is full of people bashing those that don't either straight out or passively aggressively (people aren't as stupid as you think and can smell a "hidden" insult a mile away).

I'm only slightly disappointed in you guys(and gals) . . .slightly because this stuff happens here all the time.

[relentlessflame]

Okay, for the moment I'm just going to point out that we do have a general-purpose Kyoto Animation thread where general arguments and speculation about the studio can go.

I think some of the reactions in this thread are way out-of-proportion and just looking to stir the pot, and that has to stop. No flamebait or flaming others.

This thread should be to talk about the show proper as much as possible (though I realize there is limited information at this time).

[Tempester]

Originally Posted by CJ_Walker

I do find it funny the amount of butt hurt people have for others not liking their show for the reason of not wanting to see feminized half naked dues on their screen. I guess only certain opinions are to be respected, while others bashed.

Reminds me of the From the New World incident where people who didn't like seeing boys kissing in one episode were called "homophobes". I'm thinking that many people put homosexuality on a sacred pedestal for the purpose of strawmen.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Tempester

Reminds me of the From the New World incident where people who didn't like seeing boys kissing in one episode were called "homophobes". I'm thinking that many people put homosexuality on a sacred pedestal for the purpose of strawmen.

So when people go "EEEWW GAAAAAY" or "OMG BOYS KISSING, IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD" and "WHAT IS THIS YAOI SHIT I'M DROPPING THIS" etc. that's not homophobic at all, it's just an expression of personal preference. (Of course the two girls kissing in the same episode was perfectly OK. Two boys, though? EEWW GAAAAY.)

It was the same with people expressing the personal preference of "OH NO WHAT IS THIS GAY SHIT" (paraphrased) after the first episode of K. Nope, not homophobic at all.

[Tempester]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

So when people go "EEEWW GAAAAAY" or "OMG BOYS KISSING, IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD" and "WHAT IS THIS YAOI SHIT I'M DROPPING THIS" etc. that's not homophobic at all, it's just an expression of personal preference. (Of course the two girls kissing in the same episode was perfectly OK. Two boys, though? EEWW GAAAAY.)

It was the same with people expressing the personal preference of "OH NO WHAT IS THIS GAY SHIT" (paraphrased) after the first episode of K. Nope, not homophobic at all.

I'm not saying that there aren't some genuinely homophobic reactions to this show (or to SSY), but oftentimes, certain elements simply don't appeal to someone's tastes, which doesn't really mean they have a bone to pick with a sexuality or gender at all.

For instance, I don't watch Queen's Blade because huge breasts turn me off. Some people don't watch Strike Witches because the crotch shots and sexy camera angles turn them off, and that doesn't make them extreme feminists or anything. By extension, some people won't watch Free because they're not interested in seeing bromance, potential homo undertones, and chiseled male torsos, not because they despise gays. Is there something wrong with this?

[Xion Valkyrie]

Originally Posted by Tempester

I'm not saying that there aren't some genuinely homophobic reactions to this show (or to SSY), but oftentimes, certain elements simply don't appeal to someone's tastes, which doesn't really mean they have a bone to pick with a sexuality or gender at all.

For instance, I don't watch Queen's Blade because huge breasts turn me off. Some people don't watch Strike Witches because the crotch shots and sexy camera angles turn them off, and that doesn't make them extreme feminists or anything. By extension, some people won't watch Free because they're not interested in seeing bromance, potential homo undertones, and chiseled male torsos, not because they despise gays. Is there something wrong with this?

Yes, but do you go into those threads and whine about it in an obnoxious manner while using hateful slurs and personal attacks? There's a difference between stating 'I'm not interested in men kissing' vs 'OMG, What is this Fujoshit?'

[orion]

Originally Posted by Tempester

I'm not saying that there aren't some genuinely homophobic reactions to this show (or to SSY), but oftentimes, certain elements simply don't appeal to someone's tastes, which doesn't really mean they have a bone to pick with a sexuality or gender at all.

For instance, I don't watch Queen's Blade because huge breasts turn me off. Some people don't watch Strike Witches because the crotch shots and sexy camera angles turn them off, and that doesn't make them extreme feminists or anything. By extension, some people won't watch Free because they're not interested in seeing bromance, potential homo undertones, and chiseled male torsos, not because they despise gays. Is there something wrong with this?

^totally agree.

I see nothing wrong in people going into a thread and stating their displeasure. Even if the reaction can be interpreted as "homophobic", they are still free to express it imo.

I'll prob watch a few episodes to see what all the controversy is about.

[Kirarakim]

People are free to voice their displeasure and people are free to call them homophobic or hypocrites.

If you voice something expect a response depending on what it is.

[momobunny]

I think I may give this anime a chance, it certainly looks interesting to me to say the least.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Key wasn't cut off. They just couldn't wait for the studio who was booked up. And in case you don't know, KyoAni does NOT own the rights to Haruhi or K-On. You can't milk a cow you don't own.

That's not true Vallen, I could sneak onto a random dairy farm and milk one of the cows even if I don't own them.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by orion

^totally agree.

I see nothing wrong in people going into a thread and stating their displeasure. Even if the reaction can be interpreted as "homophobic", they are still free to express it imo.

I'll prob watch a few episodes to see what all the controversy is about.

Which was never in dispute. The dispute is whether those people who made blatantly homophobic comments were actually homophobic (hint: yes). I don't think homophobia is the sole driver of the vitriol against Free!, but I don't think it should be dismissed as an element of it. That there's a double standard among anime fans when it comes to this sort of thing should surprise absolutely no one.

While I'm not a fan of much - perhaps even most - of what KyoAni has done, I can't sit idly by and see any studio that produced Hyouka labeled as one that's unwilling to do anything unconventional. In terms of subtlety and emotional accuracy, that was an unconventional as anime gets. Just because the setting was conventional a lot of people seem to be fooled into thinking the series was, too. I wish they'd do more shows like it, but at least they did that one.

[Kirarakim]

And of course Hyouka hasn't been licensed in the states yet...oh the irony!

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by Cloudenvy

I'll just say that, for some reason, the PV reminds me of Persona 4's in-game animation and art. Might be because of the glasses. I don't think the two IPs have any staff in common, do they?

[Marcus H.]

Problems for the project?

http://seventhstyle.com/2013/04/26/k...me-from-4koma/



According to the article, the 4-koma manga Free! was put on indefinite hiatus for "various reasons".
A Japanese blog (http://xxshanimunixx.blog92.fc2.com/blog-entry-79.html) also wonders if this move against the 4-koma was due to Kyoani's influence.

Originally Posted by GAN — Apology letter to the reader

Now the author's post translation:

Hello everyone, this is GAN.

Today I have something to tell you. Uhm, I already said something in Kirara Max so there might be people who already now but...

The serialization of the 4koma manga "Free!" will be suspended for a while.

I'm sorry for all the people who had fun reading it every month... I'm really sorry.

We are currently in an "unavoidable" situation so I can't tell any details about it yet, I'm sorry. Until then we'll eventually provide an explanation.

However, it has nothing to do with my physical or emotional health (even though my back is pretty bad), neither did I lose motivation or ideas for jokes nor anything like that.

Also I don't have any plans to end "Free!" at this stage.

So, I'm very sorry for causing any problem but I'd be very grateful if you could wait for a while.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

There is no grounds for homophobia because KyoAni doesn't do anything truly sexual these days. What you are seeing isn't homophobia, but people frightened that Kyoani might actually gain a new audience willing to spend money that isn't themselves. People are mad not because of sexuality but that they aren't getting anime they want to watch.

There are a lot of different anime KyoAni can make. They choose to do something different this time, which means anyone who wanted something else gets mad.

IMO they should if only to middle finger all the overreacting people. I would still watch even then anyway

[Kirarakim]

Does anyone else not see the hypocrisy here

Whatever the truth behind the matter, the single released volume of Free! was well-received, a very modest work which offered a lovable, lighthearted adventure of schoolgirls involved in various club activities.

In contrast, Kyoto Animation’s own “Free!” regurgitates an excess of half-dressed men exuberantly flashing their bodies repeatedly at a swimming pool.

[hinode]

That blog is pretty much a wannabe version of Sankaku Complex. Sensationalistic headlines and text are to be expected.

[Marcus H.]

Sensationalism aside, one must wonder why the 4-koma was temporarily canned at almost the same time the Prince of Swimming was announced. It's too much to be a coincidence.