Kyoto Animation: Studio discussion, speculation, and whatnot.

[Kanon]

I told you guys it wouldn't FMP. I ain't even mad.

I figured they were going to make that swimming anime at some point, but I didn't expect it to be announced so soon. They would have dumb not to make this into a series given the (polarized) reaction to the commercial. It's obvious this will be a success among fujoshis. It's still a bold move since they risk alienating their old fanbase, but they've certainly calculated everything.

Anyway, definitely going to watch this.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by Folenfant

No offense meant here, but that audience isn't particularly known for being very discerning about shows and can usually be satfisfied reasonable well by implied yaoi and bishonen character designs.

Actually, just the opposite. Fangirls are notoriously picky and fickle, which is why anime aimed at them is usually an adaptation of a work that has already proven popular amongst their demographic. Not to mention, I can't remember the last time a slice of life series had a strong fangirl base without something else to bolster and keep their attention--Natsume Yuujinchou, for example, had the supernatural elements--so just tossing them a few attractive character designs and some undertones is more of a recipe for failure than anything else.

[whitecloud]

it's basically just broadening the spectrum...like when google from search engine into making android..etc.."dont put all your egg in one basket"

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Kanon

They would have dumb not to make this into a series given the (polarized) reaction to the commercial.

Please stop spreading this misinformation!
It's been in production for years, and it's airing in July. There is no way this was made in response to fan reactions.

Originally Posted by Kanon

It's still a bold move since they risk alienating their old fanbase

How are they alienating anyone? Tamakoma aired a few months ago, a probable sequel to Chu2Koi is in the works, and at this rate I can see Kyoukai no Kanata airing this fall as well. It's not like this is the only thing they've made in years.
Saying that KyoAni is alienating "moe fans" by making a "non-moe show" is as ludicrous as claiming that JC Staff is alienating Rie Kugimiya fans by making shows without her in them.

[Folenfant]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Also while I think around the time Haruhi came out they were one of the biggest studios, Shaft has sort of overtaken them. .

Huh? They're reasonably popular but not that big in terms of sheer scope. Unless you mean sheer ability to get people talking at the mere mention of their involvement on English speaking forums (in which case I agree nothing tops the Kyoani/Shaft rivalry) I've always considered the big Four in anime to be Ghibli, Sunrise, I.G and Toei. Kyoani and Shaft have never quite cut into the American mainstream quite the way those 4 have historically and have a much richer history and overall output than Kyoani and Shaft could ever hope to dream of.

Kyoani is still successful though so maybe they shouldn't try experimenting but it is interesting to see if the female fanbase in Japan will make this show a success. There is definitely a female fanbase in Japan that we saw from the success of things like Kuroko no Basket and Tiger and Bunny.

I'd argue that Tiger and Bunny succeeded quite well on it's own merits and the characters weren't all handsome men like Barnaby even though obviously Fujoshi helped a lot. It also had lots to talk about week to week regarding the actual developments in the show and showed that having a middle aged man going through a mid life crisis (as opposed to school troubles) as a main focus character was plenty viable in this day and age. I'm not sure if swimming anime has similar ambitions of juggling multiple plotlines and a large cast at the same time like your average Sunrise produced sci-fi series though. I also envision a 12 episode series that just runs till the end of August as opposed to Kuroko and T&B's 25.

[Kirarakim]

What exactly does the American mainstream have to do with a studio's success in Japan?

As for Tiger & Bunny all you have to do is look at the merchandise and see who was the primary audience supporting this series.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

As for Tiger & Bunny all you have to do is look at the merchandise and see who was the primary audience supporting this series.

Fun fact, did you know that the FigureArts Wild Tiger was originally slated to be the only major piece of merchandise for the series? (I also laugh when I look at the cover of my LE bluray imports and see Blue Rose on the cover of volume two...)

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Please stop spreading this misinformation!
It's been in production for years, and it's airing in July. There is no way this was made in response to fan reactions.

Obviously, this isn't something they made appear out of thin air. That doesn't mean the reception of the commercial had absolutely no influence in their decision making. This might have sped up the production process if anything. To me, it seems like they were trying to test the waters with that commercial. If it had been horribly received, then maybe...

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

How are they alienating anyone? Tamakoma aired a few months ago, a probable sequel to Chu2Koi is in the works, and at this rate I can see Kyoukai no Kanata airing this fall as well. It's not like this is the only thing they've made in years.
Saying that KyoAni is alienating "moe fans" by making a "non-moe show" is as ludicrous as claiming that JC Staff is alienating Rie Kugimiya fans by making shows without her in them.

This is a terrible comparison. You should be able to tell from the reactions alone, that yes, they are alienating a certain portion of their fans with this show. They feel betrayed that a "moe studio" like Kyoani could suddenly make a show pandering so much to fujoshis. Yes, it's dumb, but that's how it is. Despite what they're saying now, I'm sure these people will be back for Chuunibyou or whatever, but there's still a slight possibility they won't, hence they are taking a (calculated) risk with this.

[scineram]

People forget very quickly.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...t-in-the-works

[Folenfant]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

What exactly does the American mainstream have to do with a studio's success in Japan?

As for Tiger & Bunny all you have to do is look at the merchandise and see who was the primary audience supporting this series.

I'm not disputing this, I'm simply stating that having actually watched Tiger and Bunny as a week to week show as opposed to a product that I think it stands and speaks plenty on it's own merits and can succeed with it's audience plenty fine in that regard. To say otherwise I think sells the show short. I'm also pointing out that I don't know whether or not Kyoani has a similar type of show in mind with swimming show that speaks with it's overall pitch as much as it does with it's aesthetic appeal.

Also regardless of what region you are talking about (and you said biggest studios at first, nothing about when and where, but that's not really important in the long run) those are still the 4 historically most successful and esteemed studios throughout Japanese animation history I feel. Ghibli speaks for itself, Sunrise has Gundam and a whole bunch of other very successful and popular properties as well as a lot of recent hits, I.G has Patlabor and Ghost in The Shell among others as well as some recent hits like Attack on Titan and Psycho Pass and lastly Toei has Super Sentai, Dragon Ball Z, One Piece, Precure and a whole bunch of other popular kids shows. Yes Kyoani and Shaft have some recentish hits and get a LOT of talk on English speaking forums and this might have a lot to do with them being seen as having a rivalry of late, but they simply aren't bigger in scope or overall historical success either in Japan or overseas than the four I mentioned. That's not to say they're small and destitute, but I just don't think think of them as a particularly huge player in comparison to those brands yet.

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by scineram

People forget very quickly.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...t-in-the-works

If I remember correctly, nothing about that said that it was an anime project or anything more than the swimming CM that aired. Plus, they took it off of their website after the CM aired. I wouldn't say that people "forgot". I'd say that there were reasons to assume otherwise.

[novalysis]

I'm hoping this would be another Danshi Nichjou/Nichibros, in terms of characters or better.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Folenfant

I'm not disputing this, I'm simply stating that having actually watched Tiger and Bunny as a week to week show as opposed to a product that I think it stands and speaks plenty on it's own merits and can succeed with it's audience plenty fine in that regard. To say otherwise I think sells the show short. I'm also pointing out that I don't know whether or not Kyoani has a similar type of show in mind with swimming show that speaks with it's overall pitch as much as it does with it's aesthetic appeal.

I honestly have no clue what you are talking about or where I sold Tiger and Bunny short.

I am talking about its success in terms of sales not about its success in storytelling.

I hope this new anime about swimming boys is going to be more than just fanservice but who can say for now.

Also regardless of what region you are talking about (and you said biggest studios at first, nothing about when and where, but that's not really important in the long run) those are still the 4 historically most successful and esteemed studios throughout Japanese animation history I feel. Ghibli speaks for itself, Sunrise has Gundam and a whole bunch of other very successful and popular properties as well as a lot of recent hits, I.G has Patlabor and Ghost in The Shell among others as well as some recent hits like Attack on Titan and Psycho Pass and lastly Toei has Super Sentai, Dragon Ball Z, One Piece, Precure and a whole bunch of other popular kids shows. Yes Kyoani and Shaft have some recentish hits and get a LOT of talk on English speaking forums and this might have a lot to do with them being seen as having a rivalry of late, but they simply aren't bigger in scope or overall historical success either in Japan or overseas than the four I mentioned. That's not to say they're small and destitute, but I just don't think think of them as a particularly huge player in comparison to those brands yet.

Again I am talking about success with disc sales not historic success. And how can we even measure historic success when a lot of those studios you mentioned where around much longer than Kyoani and SHAFT.

Ghibli is another beast all together as its extremely mainstream in Japan and doesn't really target the "anime fanbase". Toei is another studio I don't see targeting Otaku.


Anyways all these studios have their niche but Kyoani arguably had the whole "moe niche" with the Otaku fanbase which gave them a lot of success starting with Haruhi and Air. I think that has dropped off a little and Shaft has somewhat overtaken them with the huge success of the Monogatari series and Madoka.

[Folenfant]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

I honestly have no clue what you are talking about or where I sold Tiger and Bunny short.

I am talking about its success in terms of sales not about its success in storytelling.

I hope this new anime about swimming boys is going to be more than just fanservice but who can say for now.

Yeah well it's hard to say at this stage.

Again I am talking about success with disc sales not historic success. And how can we even measure historic success when a lot of those studios you mentioned where around much longer than Kyoani and SHAFT.

Ghibli is another beast all together as its extremely mainstream in Japan and doesn't really target the "anime fanbase". Toei is another studio I don't see targeting Otaku.


Anyways all these studios have their niche but Kyoani arguably had the whole "moe niche" with the Otaku fanbase which gave them a lot of success starting with Haruhi and Air. I think that has dropped off a little and Shaft has somewhat overtaken them with the huge success of the Monogatari series and Madoka.

If you come up with a lot of specifics, constraints and factors for inclusion/exclusion then you can make anything look any particular way. I was strictly talking overall on all accounts cause I thought you were too and figured it was the easiest and most honest way to look at this matter.....though at this stage I really don't see where this conversation can possibly take us or what use it's going to have since I simply don't know what criteria we are actually basing all of this around anymore (it seems to get narrower and narrower with each step of our exchange) so I think I'll leave it at that.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Folenfant

Yeah well it's hard to say at this stage.
If you come up with a lot of specifics, constraints and factors for inclusion/exclusion then you can make anything look any particular way. I was strictly talking overall on all accounts cause I thought you were too and figured it was the easiest and most honest way to look at this matter.....though at this stage I really don't see where this conversation can possibly take us or what use it's going to have since I simply don't know what criteria we are actually basing all of this around anymore so I think I'll leave it at that.

I was only talking about sales figures to the core anime fan base in Japan. This is the group who tends to purchase merchandise and discs.

You are right though Sunrise is also really up there

http://www.reddit.com/r/anime/commen...average_sales/

I guess though looking at Kyoani's sales with the exception of Haruhi and Kon! they are a bit lower than I thought historically.

[Folenfant]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

I was only talking about sales figures to the core anime fan base in Japan. This is the group who tends to purchase merchandise and discs.

You are right though Sunrise is also really up there

http://www.reddit.com/r/anime/commen...average_sales/

I guess though looking at Kyoani's sales with the exception of Haruhi and Kon! they are a bit lower than I thought historically.

That list says "all time", but it also neglects to include anything before the year 2000. If it did then I believe Evangelion and the original Mobile Suit Gundam should be #1 and #2 respectively among other major changes to the list.



Ah there we go. Yeah I was right if this data is accurate that is.

[Kirarakim]

Yeah we don't know how accurate the Pre-2000 data is. But even if we include the Pre-2000 data, Shaft would still be really up there.

And you could argue Shaft has the most recent success. NGE came out in 1995 and the original Gundam in 1979, that's a long time ago.

Not to get too off topic but I will say I think I overestimated Kyoani's overall success which makes me wonder what is the big deal if they try something new?

[AbZeroNow]

Well, I hope Free! flops like Tamako Market so Kyoto Animation knows that it is wasting its time and precious resources adapting crap when it could have been animating Little Busters! or my long-awaited 3rd installment of the TV anime of Haruhi Suzumiya or even finishing up the Full Metal Panic story because FMP is awesome too.

I guess Kyoto Animation is showing that they'd rather do their own crap these days than finish up Haruhi like they should be doing. If this year ends without a Haruhi announcement, I swear I'm going to join some anti-KyoAni group or start hoping that PA Works or Silver Link is allowed to finish Haruhi.

So yeah, I'm bitter about this announcement.

[whitecloud]

i read from other forum it based of LN named "high speed" that is a work submitted to their Kyoto Animation Award contest just like Chuunibyou was, even thoug i never heard of it being published? it may be being launched soon and Kyoani wants to use the anime to promote it since I assume they are the publishers for the light novel.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Kanon

That doesn't mean the reception of the commercial had absolutely no influence in their decision making. This might have sped up the production process if anything.

It's airing in July. The commercial came out recently. Anime (especially KyoAni productions) take years to plan and produce.
The commercial had nothing to do with their decision.

Originally Posted by Kanon

This is a terrible comparison. You should be able to tell from the reactions alone, that yes, they are alienating a certain portion of their fans with this show. They feel betrayed that a "moe studio" like Kyoani could suddenly make a show pandering so much to fujoshis. Yes, it's dumb, but that's how it is. Despite what they're saying now, I'm sure these people will be back for Chuunibyou or whatever, but there's still a slight possibility they won't, hence they are taking a (calculated) risk with this.

It's a perfect comparison! Because, you see, KyoAni is about as much of a "moe studio" as JC Staff is a Rie Kugimiya studio, that is to say, not at all.
Most of the negative reactions are localized to communities that refuse to understand this fact, many of which are not in a position to have any sort of influence on the success or failure of this anime to begin with.