Art Creation, Discussion and Improvement thread

[Crystal_Method]

Basically a replication of KiNa's signature improvement forum, specifically created for the artist community. Of course you don't need to be an artist to make suggestions for improvements on one's creations. Everyone is invited to discuss any art related things, yes even creations made by pros/non animesuki members (though, I myself would rather discuss art of others in the community).

Why I decided to create this thread? Well, to put it simply, I see a good handful of artists in the animesuki community (thanks to the new member groups that have been added , I also strongly encourage those who do create their own art and graphic designs to label yourself so everyone can know, even if you don't do much), but it seems there has been less fanarts/originals that are being posted since December. IIRC, Gundam Zero Force created a thread that became pretty popular quickly and quite a few artists posted their works and others helped them improve, and I liked that a lot (helped me quite a bit even if I wasn't the one getting any input). Anyway, the one reason I came up with is that this problem is occurring because people are to shy to show their works (such as myself, though I did post some a while ago, here it is if anyone wants to see and comment) and also maybe people aren't confident enough to show everyone their works (believe or not, but everyone was a beginner at art when they first got into it, I myself still am, but I'm trying to improve ). Or maybe some think they are to good to post their works *cough*kayos*cough*... (not trying to target you, it's just I never seen your works, but you seem to be a really good artist). Though there are good artists in the community who do like posting their works for other people to comment on, such as Zero Shinohara (who also helped me a lot before in my artwork along with kayos. ). This thread is for all artists of all levels and abilities to mingle/suggest/praise with eachother about eachothers works, not to put people down and make them feel like a bag of shit/douchebag. So feel free to post your works even if they are crappy, because you most likely will be given suggestions which leads to improvement.

Let me start this thread by posting a quick work of mine which at first was supposed to be an original character, but ended up becoming very similar to Misa from death note except a lot less energetic. So I call it the robot Misa:

Sized down:


Original:


Yes, I know, it's a pretty messy job including all the pencil dots/lines and smears on the paper, and I'm really too lazy to do a cleanup right now. Not to mention the fact that the face is not proportional to the neck and shoulders, and I forgot to make the shades for the shoulder bones.

P.S. I also made this thread to make myself more motivated to draw more, I really want to get better... , so please don't ignore this thread if you so kindly would.

[Zero Shinohara]

Woo, another art discussion thread, eh?

Of course I'm in, even if I wasn't mentioned in the first post. * Ehem. * Giving a little of background here, I think that the reason most of us seemed to have "vanished" during these past few months, after the "December Spike", is because we were all pretty much over the eyeballs with schoolwork. I had to take six classes, including Calculus, Physics and Speech ( I'm definitely not the type to enjoy public speaking, so you might guess how hard it was on me ). So that really took its toll. Even if I'm done with the classes and tests, I still haven't fully recovered.

However, now that I'm finally free from school and I'll have a bunch of free, carefree time in my hands for the next couple of months, I've decided myself to make the most of it to do the things I've wanted to do all along. That means learning Japanese, getting to a comfortable level in drawing, doing stuff to my car and finally putting my website up, not to mention getting back in shape. So expect to see a bunch of stuff by me around and hopefully, I'll have developed m4d-sk!llz by the end of the summer.

But getting back on-topic, I'll definitely be paying attention to the topic in the future, and I definitely encourage people to post their artwork in here. Reason for that is not only AnimeSuki has a low-level off dumbassness, but people here have a good sense of community. I've never had any problems with my stuff - everyone has always been very nice. So post along.

I'll try to keep my posts in the [Comment -> Analysis -> Post] format, so it's more readable. So, having had my comment, here's the analysis.

So, I see you have improved, eh? Although, at the time, I didn't really see any drawings you made in the Manga-style, your lines seem much more consistent now. Besides, the fact you seem to know the proportions/anatomy stuff is very good.

I will try to point out a few things, though. Try bringing her eyebrows a little higher. Since her eyes are large, low eyebrows don't mix in very well. Still in the eyes, work a bit on the trim lines. Having just clean lines for the eyes doesn't give them enough emphasis. Darken and round those lines a little bit and you'll be all set. The forehead-headtop space is pretty good, but I'd refrain from extending the head sideways too much. The head is almost like a 3-d Egg shape, so it's pretty much the same width all around.

Crap, I don't seem to be able to get my ideas out in word-form effectively. I'm still spitting Derivatives, limits and rules of integration. For times like this, redline is the best option.

Here, I'd resize it a bit so it could go on a spoiler tag, but I thought the lines wouldn't show through. Hopefully that gives you a few ideas.

http://www.kidoutenshi.net/random/redline/cm_01.jpg

Besides the things I pointed out, everything's fine. The mouth/nose position and shapes are great. Just work on the eyes/head, and you're good to go. Understanding these key concepts before proceding will pay off later on.

[Jinto]

my discussion will be an addition Zero Shinohara's (I've just waited for someone doing the most commenting work )

I'ld use a symmetrical angle for the eyes (pupils). And I've rarely seen souch round chins in that kind of style. Further I'ld say use fewer hair strands but make them wider... that will allow nicer shadow layers later on.
Hm, what else... did I mention already, that it looks quite good?

[p997tt]

Well I'm not good at teaching people how to do things, especially when it comes to art.

Aside from the comments already mentioned by Zero Shinohara and Jinto Lin, I also wanted to add that the hair now looks kind of too rigid, as in the hair doesn't flow naturally and all hair strands seem to have similar width. Here is my attempt at drawing the pic (feel free to correct this pic if anyone wants to).

Spoiler:

[Zero Shinohara]

@p997tt
Wow, some great skills you got! It's really really good. I just envy people who can do such long strokes without having to go grab their hands somewhere around Macchu-Picchu.

And yeah, I mentioned that in the picture. Hair doesn't stick to the sides, since it has gravity affecting it. It's only in certain haircuts or strands of hair that it can defy the pull. Even full, messy hair needs to have a level of weight added to it, so...

Only thing I have to say about your version is that the eyes don't seem to match... see how one looks to one side and the other looks directly to the front? You should her right ( viewer's pov ) eye a bit more to the center. Do that and it'll look awesome.

[Crystal_Method]

(Haha, I just noticed the right shoulder is a little lopsided, my bad )

Also the character looks a little more distinguished from misa, with that, can it be considered an original...

Here's the fix, I basically redid the hair... lol, but it's all good, I need the practice anyway and actually me fixing a work of mine is even more amazing, I usually leave the mistakes as it is unless it's an easy fix. Expect more stuff to come from me, I already got some on the way.

[Zero Shinohara]

Ah! See, I think it's now much better.

However, I would stick to how the hair was done first. BUT, that's my personal preference. I try to get away from making comments about your stile and try to stick to the composition factors of the piece.

Anyway, anyone wanna help ME out? There's something bothering me in this drawing, but I'm not sure what. One thing I noticed is that her head-shoulder ratio isn't the best ever. That happens EVERY freaking time, and I'm starting to get pissed at myself for it. Besides that, her hips seem to me a little narrower than her shoulders. I tried to keep the proportions, but her breasts, since they are a little larger than normal, aren't helping much on this.

Also, please give opinions in her uniform. I have a LOT of trouble with clothes ( that's why most of my drawings have no clothes at all ), and so that one I quite liked.

Here it is.

Spoiler:

Thanks D:

[Solace]

I decided to see what I could do with your picture, hope you don't mind. Forgive me though, I'm still getting used to drawing with programs, I'm a pencil paper artist at heart, hehe.

Spoiler for Saving space:

Ok, besides the head/shoulder issue the first thing that struck out to me was the shoulders themselves. One is much pointier than the other, so I tried to smooth it out some. It's probably still a bit too pointy. Next I tried to tweak the right arm, it seemed a bit too big. Basically all I did was try to redraw it to look a bit less "bulky". I did try and add some crease detail but my skills with a mouse are a bit uh...lacking. I smoothed out the crease on the shirt. The previous crease made her look like she was turning her torso, which seemed unnatural with the flow of the rest of the body.

I also tried to lower the entire head a bit, so the neck wasn't as long. I tried to smooth out the chin and lowered the mouth a bit to try and make it more balanced between nose and chin.

Hope my critique was helpful.

Edit: I can't help but keep tweaking with stuff, hehe. Ok I moved the nose a bit, cleaned up the hair lines I screwed up when was moving stuff around, trimmed her left waist a little, and added a little more to her skirt on her left side. I also rounded out her right shoulder more.

Spoiler for saving space:

Ok, that's enough meddling from me for now. Let me know what you think.

[celcius]

Hi Zero. Hisashiburi-dane~
I'm still as lazy as ever, playing my PS2 forever. xD I haven't even really tackled the Andrew Loomis book in-depth -.- Now that I really need to get to...

Just my observations; but I think her neck is too long, her head is a tad larger than normal, and she doesn't have hips. ~.~
I don't know, but I think her breasts are a little too high as well up? ^^;

@ankoku:
I think it'd help if you show what changed in the pic ^^;
Like maybe add arrows with notes or something. ^^

[Solace]

Originally Posted by celcius

@ankoku:
I think it'd help if you show what changed in the pic ^^;
Like maybe add arrows with notes or something. ^^

Hmm, good point. I'll whip one up.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by Crystal_Method

(Haha, I just noticed the right shoulder is a little lopsided, my bad )

Also the character looks a little more distinguished from misa, with that, can it be considered an original...

Here's the fix, I basically redid the hair... lol, but it's all good, I need the practice anyway and actually me fixing a work of mine is even more amazing, I usually leave the mistakes as it is unless it's an easy fix. Expect more stuff to come from me, I already got some on the way.

I'ld interprete her this way... (sorry been lazy with the hair ) ... does look so angry ^^'

Spoiler for for 873x1200:

[Solace]

Ok, got together a before and after. I did a few more changes to the final picture, the biggest was reducing the head size, which was rather challenging trying to match the lines up after.

Anyway, here's the final result:

Spoiler for Ginormous Picture!:

Hopefully this makes my changes a bit clearer.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by ankoku

Ok, got together a before and after. I did a few more changes to the final picture, the biggest was reducing the head size, which was rather challenging trying to match the lines up after.

Anyway, here's the final result:

Spoiler for Ginormous Picture!:

Hopefully this makes my changes a bit clearer.

I would like to suggest another optimization... anatomically the upper body work (hips to head tip) is the same size as lower body work (feet to hips). In the picture here... I can't help but my feeling says her lower body part is way too large.

[Solace]

Quite true. I only focused on the upper body because the lower wasn't complete. If you go by the waist, the legs are too long for the upper body. Before I start making more changes though, I feel Zero should have some input. I made quite a few changes already and they may not be to his liking. I try to draw a line (no pun intended ) between trying to be helpful and taking over someone elses work.

[p997tt]

Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara

@p997tt
Wow, some great skills you got! It's really really good. I just envy people who can do such long strokes without having to go grab their hands somewhere around Macchu-Picchu.

Actually with enough practice I think everyone can do it. The hardest part is doing the same long strokes while darkening the outline (this is the part I'm bad at). Most of the time it's easier to hold the pencil lightly when you do these long strokes, thus the lines ended up not dark enough and the picture ended up very sketchy like the pic I posted (so it's not ideal for digital colouring)

Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara

Only thing I have to say about your version is that the eyes don't seem to match... see how one looks to one side and the other looks directly to the front? You should her right ( viewer's pov ) eye a bit more to the center. Do that and it'll look awesome.

Yeah that's the problem when nearly 100% of time I draw a head in 3/4 view. I don't remember the last time I drew a head in front view.

Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara

Also, please give opinions in her uniform. I have a LOT of trouble with clothes ( that's why most of my drawings have no clothes at all ), and so that one I quite liked.

For trouble with clothes, do you mean creating creases on clothes or just clothing design in general?

Originally Posted by celcius

I don't know, but I think her breasts are a little too high as well up? ^^;

Yeah I think so too. It's either that or the head is too big. From what I've observed over the past years, this is the proportion that most anime girls used (just approximately, not really exact):

Spoiler:

There are exceptions like the style used in AIR. But in general this is what I observed.

[celcius]

Hmm, head proportions.
Just want to ask: do you actually use head proportions as a guide? I find myself just guesstimating my way through the body, and I think I may be coming up with gangly/squat people 'cos of that.
As for line practice, I find myself "feathering" about a million lines to produce a right line I want. Do I go about drawing random circles just to get used to accuracy? Also, how does one properly hold a pen when drawing/sketching?

Figured I'd voice out my concerns regarding the fundamentals in order for new bloods will have something to get used to from the start, rather than have to adapt midway (which will probably be hell -.-)

I feel like I've asked the question about the pen handling before -.-
But I think it's good for discussion anyway so might as well fire away. ^^

[Crystal_Method]

What I do is I just draw a movement/motion for a figure and from there I just start drawing the body, I don't even try to make a mannequin first. Basically I do the same thing as celcius, however, I do use the techniques I learned to form the body and make it look as real as possible.

As for line practice, I really don't do much of it... My practice is basically regular drawing. I usually draw different positions of the figure and different viewpoints to get a good idea of how to make a person in a 3d perspective. The closest I get to actual fundamental practice is gesturing. And I do it a lot, whenever I have a piece paper and pen/pencil I just start gesturing. Its really just so I can quickly come up with cool movements in a second rather than just sitting around contemplating on what I should make for an hour (anyone else ever had that happen to you?).

As for holding a pen or pencil properly, a lot of people say I do it weird. Reason is because I lay my entire side of my palm on the paper, which I used to think everyone did, but I guess I was wrong. I do it just out of comfort though because not only do I not have to deal with those soars you get when you write for a long time, but I also have an extra steady hand so when I draw I make better lines and shapes.