What Gundam shows count as war anime? [All shows]

[4Tran]

Just the other day, I watched Revenge of the Sith and it occurred to me that we rarely see a multi-front war of any significance in Gundam. Upon further pondering, it seems to me that we rarely see any large-scale warfare to begin with. So the question that comes to mind the question of the topic - should Gundam TV shows be considered war anime?

I would expect any good war anime to tackle the overall aspects: the strategic elements, the scope of the conflict, the objectives of the belligerents and the consequences of the actions taken (For example, Tora, Tora, Tora.). Alternatively, it can tell a good war story - one with realistic events, with semi-realistic action and a sense of immediacy (For example, Saving Private Ryan). However, I don't think that the Gundam TV shows do a very good job at portraying either approach.

Mobile Suit Gundam was modelled after the Pacific War, so it comes as little surprise that it is very much a war anime. It combines the sheer size of an Earth sphere conflict with immediacy and presents the stakes of all participants very well. However, its immediate successors are far less successful at this. Their main failings are in scale and scope of the conflicts presented. Perhaps as a direct consequence of this, we don't see a whole lot of strategy involved in the conflicts either. Which Gundam TV shows do a good job at any of this, and which ones don't?

As an addendum, I would prefer it if the discussion was confined to the first eight Gundam TV shows - without any reference to the OVAs, mangas, audio dramas, and what not.

[Random Otaku]

Well, there's 08th MS Team Gundam, which is as close as Gundam ever got to "what's war like on a grunt day-to-day level". The series has some of the most believable Gundam action around, coupled with a more life-like representation of MS-warfare then you get from the new series (GS/GSD).
Did I just repeat myself? Oo

Anyway, 08th MS Team Gundam is what your looking for.

[shaolo]

I think MSG is the only series that felt like a full-scale war because while Amuro and the crew of the White Base may have a powerful mobile suit and a ship, they are just part of a larger force.

[Sety]

Turn-A Gundam is another very well done war drama, though its more in the way of drama.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Random Otaku

Anyway, 08th MS Team Gundam is what your looking for.

This is true enough except for a couple of minor catches. First, 08th MS Team is partly successful because it is an offshoot of the One Year War. This war was established in MSG, so it is partially dependent on the older work. Second, I stipulated that I was just discussing the TV shows, not the OVAs. The OVAs are structured quite differently, and they tend to appeal to a slightly different audience, so I always give them special consideration. If we were to include the OVAs, both 0800 and 08th MS Team would be fairly decent war dramas.

Originally Posted by Sety

Turn-A Gundam is another very well done war drama, though its more in the way of drama.

I disagree. I don't think that Turn A is a war drama at all. In fact, I would say that it goes out of its way so as to avoid the appearance of a war drama. There are three elements that seem to support my argument.

First, all of the people in the Correct Century have no understanding or knowledge about war. It's as if war is a concept that they read of in books, but feel no connections to. Gym's sword is an excellent metaphor for this: he brandishes it about, and seems like he's quite expert with it, but when it comes to actually fighting with it, he's shown as a total neophyte.

Second, the scale of the conflict is extremely small for a supposed intra-planetary war. The Diana Counter is a very small force, and they only faced a handful of Earth governments. Also the fighting is shown as a series extremely low-intensity skirmishes. It's quite possible for many (most?) citizens in the warzones to ignore the fighting altogether. I would go so far as to not regard the conflict as a war at all.

Finally, combat is almost irrelevant to Turn A. If we excised 90% of the actual skirmishes, the story could be told with out any significant changes. Instead, the conflict merely serves as a catalyst for character interaction, which is the real meat and bones of Turn A.

I tend to think that G Gundam and Turn A gundam don't even try to present themselves as war anime, so they can't be accused of failing to live up to that billing. Instead, this ignomity should be borne by Zeta, ZZ and Gundam X. At least Wing tried (and failed) to be a compelling war drama, but these shows didn't even make a valiant attempt.

[shaolo]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

This is true enough except for a couple of minor catches. First, 08th MS Team is partly successful because it is an offshoot of the One Year War. This war was established in MSG, so it is partially dependent on the older work. Second, I stipulated that I was just discussing the TV shows, not the OVAs. The OVAs are structured quite differently, and they tend to appeal to a slightly different audience, so I always give them special consideration. If we were to include the OVAs, both 0800 and 08th MS Team would be fairly decent war dramas.


I disagree. I don't think that Turn A is a war drama at all. In fact, I would say that it goes out of its way so as to avoid the appearance of a war drama. There are three elements that seem to support my argument.

First, all of the people in the Correct Century have no understanding or knowledge about war. It's as if war is a concept that they read of in books, but feel no connections to. Gym's sword is an excellent metaphor for this: he brandishes it about, and seems like he's quite expert with it, but when it comes to actually fighting with it, he's shown as a total neophyte.

Second, the scale of the conflict is extremely small for a supposed intra-planetary war. The Diana Counter is a very small force, and they only faced a handful of Earth governments. Also the fighting is shown as a series extremely low-intensity skirmishes. It's quite possible for many (most?) citizens in the warzones to ignore the fighting altogether. I would go so far as to not regard the conflict as a war at all.

Finally, combat is almost irrelevant to Turn A. If we excised 90% of the actual skirmishes, the story could be told with out any significant changes. Instead, the conflict merely serves as a catalyst for character interaction, which is the real meat and bones of Turn A.

I tend to think that G Gundam and Turn A gundam don't even try to present themselves as war anime, so they can't be accused of failing to live up to that billing. Instead, this ignomity should be borne by Zeta, ZZ and Gundam X. At least Wing tried (and failed) to be a compelling war drama, but these shows didn't even make a valiant attempt.

I think Gundam Wing was Guerilla War with less drama.

Side note: Still kick ass.

Also take a look at MAHQ Ben's talk about Guerilla War Mecha if anyone has any free time. http://www.mahq.net/rants/musing/musing25.htm

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by shaolo

I think Gundam WWing was Guerilla War with less drama.

I agree that Wing takes a stab at being a war drama. However, it is simply too inconsistent, incoherent and absurd to be very successful at it. It often feels that the factions are going through the motions of fighting a war simply because it seems like that that's what they should be doing at the time.

As an aside, Ben's musing doesn't seem to be very vigorous. Much of what he says about rooting for the underdog is pretty self-evident and his attempt to shoehorn in a comparison with real events is shaky at best.

[Sety]

Hmm the more I think about now.......only the One Year War events seem anything close to an actual full scale war drama. Everything after seemed pretty low scale.

[Syn13]

Aren't most Gundam series war-based? I mean in generally tho(not relating to real event wars). The thing about the Gundam series is that they tune in very closely to the main characters of the story while many of the War aspects are 3rd party, you see them in the background but the focal point is the main character/squad.
Series I watched:
08th MS team - OYW
0080 - Side story of the OYW, story within a war situation(not very war like in a way)
Zeta - A.E.U.G. vs EAF/Titans/Neo Zeon - "Gryps War"
CCA - Final conclusion of the Ferderation vs Zeon war
F91 - War like situation, not enough to be considered war, more like a long battle
Victory - Federation vs Zanscare Empire
Wing - More rebellion since it was mainly 5 vs a army
X - Like Wing, one crew/"vulture" against an army
Seed - EA vs Zaft, pretty much was war(I guess because they tried to base it loosely on MSG), main highlight, Jakin Due.
Seed Destiny - Same as Seed, but this time based on Zeta loosely...

I dunno, I have a simple interpretation of things so I may be wrong(majorly) :P

[NeonZ]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I tend to think that G Gundam and Turn A gundam don't even try to present themselves as war anime, so they can't be accused of failing to live up to that billing. Instead, this ignomity should be borne by Zeta, ZZ and Gundam X. At least Wing tried (and failed) to be a compelling war drama, but these shows didn't even make a valiant attempt.

Huh... How did Gundam X try to present itself as a war anime? The start clearly focused on small groups called vultures, not in any kind of war. It was repeated several times that the war had ended, but the "individual wars" were still going on. That's a clear sign that they weren't even intending to present a war.

Of course, close to the ending, it became more like a war anime, however, the only arc which even tried to present a war was Estardo's, it isn't like Zeta and ZZ where the entire series tries to present a conflict, though it's too small to be considered a real war.

Gundam X's later episodes were mostly about preventing a war, not fighting one. In fact, comparatively, I really don't see how you can say that Turn-A doesn't present itself as a war anime, while saying that Gundam X did. The whole basic concept of Turn-A was a Earth-Moon war, with the Earth using outdated technology against the Moon's futuristic weapons while Gundam X focused more than half of its episodes in a group of Vultures exploring the world.

Turn-A suffered from the low scale of the conflict and lack of combat situations, but the first factor can already be seen in most Tomino series after the original MSG. The only Tomino series which comes close to the original is Victory, and only during the few last episodes, when the Federation joins the fight.

CCA shows most of the Federation doing nothing against the enemy, sending only a small force, clearly showing that it's quite a limited conflict, though its consequences help its scale somewhat.

SEED is the only series which really attempts to present a OYW scale conflict, after the original, however, it's strange, as large scale conflicts are separated by moments of nothingness early in the series, though later that flaw is fixed.

Destiny could be grouped with Zeta and ZZ. All present conflicts which supposedly will decide the Earth's fate, but are actually quite low scale. Destiny is above the other two because of the large scale battles which happen after the conflict is scaled up by the Destroy Gundam and Dullindal's anti-Logos propaganda, while Z leaves much of the main forces outside of combat, and ZZ turns them into a joke(The Federation has arrived for the rescue! Huh... the battle has already ended?!) after making them not care about it for a long time.

However, Destiny also loses points because it just doesn't focus on the war. Even though there's a war going on, most of the drama is purely personal, and the conflict could have stayed low scale without actually changing anything about the characters or the plot, only a few action scenes...

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Syn13

Aren't most Gundam series war-based? I mean in generally tho(not relating to real event wars). The thing about the Gundam series is that they tune in very closely to the main characters of the story while many of the War aspects are 3rd party, you see them in the background but the focal point is the main character/squad.

Most Gundam TV shows try to be about war, but they generally fail. Most notably, MSG is quite successful, while Gundam X, Zeta and ZZ fail miserably.

The main exceptions to this are G Gundam and Turn A. These shows have their focus in a different area, and can be excused from this thread.

Originally Posted by NeonZ

Huh... How did Gundam X try to present itself as a war anime? The start clearly focused on small groups called vultures, not in any kind of war. It was repeated several times that the war had ended, but the "individual wars" were still going on. That's a clear sign that they weren't even intending to present a war.

The entirety of Gundam X was a continuation of the Seventh Space War. Just about every significant character the cast encountered either bore the scars of the previous war, were related to technology developed for the previous war or trying to reignite the Eighth Space War. Every time they tripped it would be because they came across (yet another) artifact from the pre-Fall days.

Originally Posted by NeonZ

Gundam X's later episodes were mostly about preventing a war, not fighting one. In fact, comparatively, I really don't see how you can say that Turn-A doesn't present itself as a war anime, while saying that Gundam X did. The whole basic concept of Turn-A was a Earth-Moon war, with the Earth using outdated technology against the Moon's futuristic weapons while Gundam X focused more than half of its episodes in a group of Vultures exploring the world.

The real difference between Gundam X's and Turn A's handling of war. If we eliminated the war-related events from both shows, we would effectively have nothing of significance left of Gundam X, whilst Turn A would still have plenty of story left.

Of course, I may be a little biased in favor of Turn A, but I still think that its best moments had nothing to do with war or fighting.

Originally Posted by NeonZ

Turn-A suffered from the low scale of the conflict and lack of combat situations, but the first factor can already be seen in most Tomino series after the original MSG. The only Tomino series which comes close to the original is Victory, and only during the few last episodes, when the Federation joins the fight.

This is quite untrue. The fighting in Turn A is supposed to be very small-scale and unimportant. This was never a question of worldwide concern, and the scale is established from the get-go. The decreased amount of combat only serves to emphasize the fact that it's the characters that are important here, not the action.

[NeonZ]

The entirety of Gundam X was a continuation of the Seventh Space War. Just about every significant character the cast encountered either bore the scars of the previous war, were related to technology developed for the previous war or trying to reignite the Eighth Space War. Every time they tripped it would be because they came across (yet another) artifact from the pre-Fall days.

Of course, but, couldn't the same be said about Turn-A, only in a much larger scale? Everything in Turn-A existed because an ancient war destroyed Earth's technology. Every city, every person, every technology, everything in that Earth was shaped by an ancient war.

Gundam X does use war as an element, either background or an objective, but that doesn't mean they were trying to make a war drama. 007 movies many times use similar elements as backstory or objective of the villains, but that doesn't mean they were trying to make a war movie.

The only arc which actually makes an effort to present a war is Estardo's, that's only 4 episodes, before and after that one arc war is just a plot element. How could they make a war drama without war? That just doesn't make sense. They clearly weren't even trying to make one.

Look at the Fort-Seven arc. Yes, the mayor was a former member of the SRA army who wanted to continue their dreams, but that was just background, any other reasoning would make the arc work, as long as he fooled Karis and planned on using him. The arc itself has nothing to do with war. Neither did the Alternative Labs' arc, or Ennil's arc, nor the episode about Witz's and Roaby's homes(or lack of), or even the first half of the sea arc, only the Luchilu arc(2 episodes...) was somewhat war-related, and even then it's obvious they weren't trying to make any kind of war drama.

The real difference between Gundam X's and Turn A's handling of war. If we eliminated the war-related events from both shows, we would effectively have nothing of significance left of Gundam X, whilst Turn A would still have plenty of story left.

Of course, I may be a little biased in favor of Turn A, but I still think that its best moments had nothing to do with war or fighting.

Huh... if we eliminated war-related events from Turn-A, the whole world would just vanish...

And even though Turn-A doesn't focus a lot on the battles themselves, there's a lot of screentime used for politics, politics which mainly concern a war-time situation.

Turn-A surely had less action than Gundam X, but claiming that it was less war-centered than Gundam X is just wrong. Gundam X's action many times had no relation with a war element, besides the technology.

This is quite untrue. The fighting in Turn A is supposed to be very small-scale and unimportant. This was never a question of worldwide concern, and the scale is established from the get-go. The decreased amount of combat only serves to emphasize the fact that it's the characters that are important here, not the action.

Not really. Especially later on, when it's shown that one of the groups was actually fighting to recreate the fighting spirit on the mankind, which obviously would lead to a bigger conflict.

If the fight was supposed to be so unimportant, we wouldn't have two demigod Mobile suits with the power to destroy the civilization fighting each other during the final battle. Turn-A was war centered, it just wasn't action centered.

I'm not criticizing Turn-A's quality, I just don't see how you can say that it wasn't a war drama. Yes, there are a few episodes which have nothing to do with war, but those are a small minority (First episode, first Will Gen episode, the episode about that old woman...).

[4Tran]

NeonZ, I'll just address some of your more salient points here.

Originally Posted by NeonZ

Of course, but, couldn't the same be said about Turn-A, only in a much larger scale? Everything in Turn-A existed because an ancient war destroyed Earth's technology. Every city, every person, every technology, everything in that Earth was shaped by an ancient war.

The analogy does not work here. Nobody in the CC is really aware of the ancient history of the previous wars. Even if they were, it would just be in an academic sense. In the case of Gundam X, most of the memories of the Seventh Space War are first-hand accounts.

The argument becomes weaker when you realise that everything in today's world is also shaped by previous wars. That doesn't mean that modern people dwell on it.

Originally Posted by NeonZ

Look at the Fort-Seven arc. Yes, the mayor was a former member of the SRA army who wanted to continue their dreams, but that was just background, any other reasoning would make the arc work, as long as he fooled Karis and planned on using him. The arc itself has nothing to do with war.

Actually, you seem to be missing the connection here, the mayor is not the link to the Seventh Space War - Carris is. As a result of the experiment to create artificial newtypes for the war effort, he fits the description of "scars of the previous war" very well.

Originally Posted by NeonZ

the episode about Witz's and Roaby's homes(or lack of)

This is, far and away, my favorite episode of Gundam X.

Imagine if there was no outbreak of general hostilities after Dianna negotiated with Guin. In this scenario, Turn A's story wouldn't have very much fighting, but it would still progress in a similar manner to the original. This is the reason I said that combat is unnecessary to Turn A's plot: it's main dynamic is found in the character moments, and action sequences don't contribute that much to it. Pretty much the same thing can be said in regards to the Moon-Earth conflict.

Originally Posted by NeonZ

Not really. Especially later on, when it's shown that one of the groups was actually fighting to recreate the fighting spirit on the mankind, which obviously would lead to a bigger conflict.

I think of the element as an example in favor of my argument. Gym's followers are neophytes at war. They don't have any real experience of note; they are just going through the motions. It's like a bunch of kids bragging about how they're going to fight in real wars when they become adults. NeonZ, if this is the most warlike group you can come up with in Turn A, then it's probably not a very warlike show.

As far as I'm concerned, a war story can be just as much about the ramifications of a war as it is about actually fighting it. Most of the story elements in Gundam X is tied in some way to the Seventh Space War, so it wouldn't make much sense to judge it as anything other than a war story. The sad thing is that it shouldn't have been. It should have been true to its premise by being a post-apocalyptic survival show with very little in the way of functional technology and even less of functional governments.

[WhereAmI]

Can't we all just get along?

[Crusader]

The thing about gundam is that quite a bit of the fighting is done behind the scenes. Like Gundam X th enew Federation conquered most of earth behind he scenes. They only show the Estardo arc becuase that was the only place the New federation was having trouble conquering (asia). The only other all out battle is the last two eps where the SRA and New federation fight.

ZZ Gundam it's my understanding that there were fights that too k plac ebehind the scenes, like Hamans conquering the titans at kilomanjaro (cant spell) or Amuro's fighting during that time period. The only big battles were the 2 eps in dakar where the karaba showed up, an dth elast four eps of the show whihh focus around Glemmy's rebellion.

Zeta had a bit of behind the scnes fighting form what i gather, but they had only a few big battles too. like the karaba's attack agianst ....kilimanjaro, and pretty much the final skirmishes toward the end of the show.

Victory gundam has a few more major battles, i cant expelicitly remember cuase it's been a while since viewing that series.

wing had a quite a bit of big battles but they were behind the scenes. i do recall Oz's defeating the Alliance. then there was the battles between Lady une's forces and Tuborovs. then there was the whole battle at luxemborg where trieze was. Then the battle that crushed Zanq kingdom. then the battle at Barge. And of course the final conflict.

Turn A didn't really have a large scale conflict.

Seed had big battles, some behind the scene, like the whole endmyion crater thing. There was alaska, all of the battles at panama and victoria weren't seen. thne there is the last battle.

GSD... there was the Heavens base, and the battles Around reqiuem, then eh last conflict.

CCA had a few skirmishes, but the final battle is probably the only one close to beign large scale.

[NeonZ]

The analogy does not work here. Nobody in the CC is really aware of the ancient history of the previous wars. Even if they were, it would just be in an academic sense. In the case of Gundam X, most of the memories of the Seventh Space War are first-hand accounts.

The argument becomes weaker when you realise that everything in today's world is also shaped by previous wars. That doesn't mean that modern people dwell on it.

The analogy does work because, just like in Gundam X, elements of that war still exist in a very much real sense. The separation between moon race and Earth civilizations, the recovered Mobile Suits and ships, Corin's history... they're all shaped by the war.

Yes, it is ancient, but it's far from academic.

Actually, you seem to be missing the connection here, the mayor is not the link to the Seventh Space War - Carris is. As a result of the experiment to create artificial newtypes for the war effort, he fits the description of "scars of the previous war" very well.

But Karis was turned into a Cyber-Newtype after the war. The original techniques (the ones used in Karis were different- as well as his motivation, he didn't even know Newtypes could be born naturally) were developed during the war, but that's a rather small relationship.

Imagine if there was no outbreak of general hostilities after Dianna negotiated with Guin. In this scenario, Turn A's story wouldn't have very much fighting, but it would still progress in a similar manner to the original. This is the reason I said that combat is unnecessary to Turn A's plot: it's main dynamic is found in the character moments, and action sequences don't contribute that much to it. Pretty much the same thing can be said in regards to the Moon-Earth conflict.

Not really. Many relationships would be very different, everything regarding Ginn's faction would have to be changed, as well as most of Gwen's actions, which after a certain point became completely war related, all the episodes about travelling to the mass driver also would have big problems, as well as the whole thing about travelling to the moon...

I still think you're confusing war and action. Turn-A's actions scenes don't contribute much, but Turn-A's plot heavily focuses on the war theme. We can take out most of turn-A's action scenes without changing anything else. But take out the war and almost everything has to be changed, Gundam X actually would still have several episodes untouched, even if the war is never mentioned (aside from a backstory to explain the state of the world).

As far as I'm concerned, a war story can be just as much about the ramifications of a war as it is about actually fighting it. Most of the story elements in Gundam X is tied in some way to the Seventh Space War, so it wouldn't make much sense to judge it as anything other than a war story. The sad thing is that it shouldn't have been. It should have been true to its premise by being a post-apocalyptic survival show with very little in the way of functional technology and even less of functional governments.

Even before Gundam X was shown for the first time, it was already known that the Frosts were pilting out of the factory units produced by an unknown organization. Considering that, I don't think X was ever intended to be just about a chaotic world.

Also, "tied in some way" is a rather general statement, which is exactly why I made that Turn-A comparison in my last message. Talking in such general terms, everything in Turn-A also is directly related to a past war (and, unlike X, it actually shows a present conflict fairly soon).

I think of the element as an example in favor of my argument. Gym's followers are neophytes at war. They don't have any real experience of note; they are just going through the motions. It's like a bunch of kids bragging about how they're going to fight in real wars when they become adults. NeonZ, if this is the most warlike group you can come up with in Turn A, then it's probably not a very warlike show.

Huh... the whole Moonrace vs Earthrace conflict is warlike, and there's this group worshipping war. At least, in Gundam X, war was mostly used as means to carry on the Newtype theme, in Turn-A, war by itself is a central theme. Turn-A even explored to some extent the relation between a industry and war, with Gwen.

[Demon-Hunter]

Ah please don't say GS and and particularly GSD.

WHile i can agree that some aspects of seed point at war GSD on the other hand was extremely one sided.

If GS at least had some nice EA vs Zaft battles GSD had impulse/saviour vs grunts for a good half of the show.

They both suffered from the "Lacus is right, everyone is wrong, Kira be my sword and smite them all" syndrome.

So no, GSD particularly is NOT a war move... more like 3 kids getting togather and saying that the whole world is wrong...

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by NeonZ

Yes, it is ancient, but it's far from academic.

No, the previous war was completely academic. Think of it this way, it affected the current politics and conflict in the Correct Century less than the battle of Salamis affect us now.

Originally Posted by NeonZ

Not really. Many relationships would be very different, everything regarding Ginn's faction would have to be changed, as well as most of Gwen's actions, which after a certain point became completely war related, all the episodes about travelling to the mass driver also would have big problems, as well as the whole thing about travelling to the moon...

How would any of this be all that different?

Originally Posted by NeonZ

I still think you're confusing war and action. Turn-A's actions scenes don't contribute much, but Turn-A's plot heavily focuses on the war theme. We can take out most of turn-A's action scenes without changing anything else.

That's pretty much my point, the war in Turn A exists mostly as background noise. It's simply the backdrop for the real action.

Originally Posted by NeonZ

Even before Gundam X was shown for the first time, it was already known that the Frosts were pilting out of the factory units produced by an unknown organization. Considering that, I don't think X was ever intended to be just about a chaotic world.

Yes, and that's part and parcel of the problem.

Originally Posted by NeonZ

Also, "tied in some way" is a rather general statement, which is exactly why I made that Turn-A comparison in my last message. Talking in such general terms, everything in Turn-A also is directly related to a past war (and, unlike X, it actually shows a present conflict fairly soon).

But here, the case of the "tie-in" is that the Seventh Space War was never resolved. When we look at the overall picture, most of the major story points address this directly.

Originally Posted by NeonZ

Huh... the whole Moonrace vs Earthrace conflict is warlike, and there's this group worshipping war.

And they don't know what the heck they're doing. I don't see how this rebuts my point.

Actually, as far as the thread goes, all of this back and forth is rather academic: in any case, both Gundam X and Turn A do a poor job of portraying a war or they don't try to do so at all. So the question is, why then, is Gundam pretty much considered as the epitome of war anime? Is there some merit to this view? Or is merely a case of Mobile Suit Gundam coloring people's perceptions?

Originally Posted by Crusader

ZZ Gundam it's my understanding that there were fights that too k plac ebehind the scenes, like Hamans conquering the titans at kilomanjaro (cant spell) or Amuro's fighting during that time period.

Did they actually say some thing about Neo-Zeon attacking Kilimanjaro in ZZ? Did they say anything about any surviving Titans at all? I watched ZZ before Zeta, so I could have easily missed something.

Originally Posted by Crusader

Zeta had a bit of behind the scnes fighting form what i gather, but they had only a few big battles too. like the karaba's attack agianst ....kilimanjaro, and pretty much the final skirmishes toward the end of the show.

Do you have any idea about AEUG, Axis and the Titan's strengths throughout Zeta? I thought that the creators did a very poor job at portraying their numbers and such. I would really appreciate any information.

[Crusader]

Well

THe Blue Team of africa mentioned that Neo Zeon and the Titans faught often in Africa, and Haman mentions subjigating the titans at kilimanjaro. I assume they fought becuase whenever they returned to space Haman went back through the kilimanjaro base, so make up what you want out of it.

As for Zeta, it's been forever since i saw it so i could be wrong.

[edkwon]

Gundam MS08th team and 0083 were pretty hardcore war-style dramas, the rest were more space operatic than a 'down and dirty' style war story.

Ed