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ForceFreedom · 2004-12-13, 23:36

Ok I rewatched a bit of Gundam Seed today just for shits and giggles, and I decided to pay attention to the first fight between EA and Orb, when the time that Azreal gives Orb to side with the EA expires.
I assume that this is when the events in the first scene of GSD transpire, since the civilians wouldn't be evacuating during the other battles to follow, and also Athrun hasn't joined the fight yet.
So there's a familiar scene where we see Calamity in the forest, while Freedom dukes it out with Raider and Forbidden in the sky.

GSD sets up the scene to look like Kira killed the Asuka's with a missed HI-Mat while trying to shoot Calamity. Well...the only time he uses a HI-Mat in the battle is at the start, to pwn a bunch of Strike Daggers on some rocky terrain where the Astray girls are (the whole scene where the girls are like "OMFG Kira=teh awesome"). For the rest of the fight, Kira is engaged with Forbidden and Raider high above the ocean.

Now the intresting part. Fraga decides to engage Calamity with Strike. They both fly around at ground level blasting everything except eachother. I know its kinda out there, but I think we can safely rule out Calamity killing Shinns family (because that would be boring), but what about Fraga? He even said himself: "I'm just a n00b". Is it possible that Fraga might have blown the Asuka's to bits?

kikko_s · 2004-12-14, 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForceFreedom

I know its kinda out there, but I think we can safely rule out Calamity killing Shinns family (because that would be boring), but what about Fraga? He even said himself: "I'm just a n00b". Is it possible that Fraga might have blown the Asuka's to bits?

Well, we can't rule out Calamity for that measly reason, but you have a point about Mwu. He DOES fire a few shots at Calamity (and so do the Astray girls). Actually, the first time I watched all that, I thought it would be a 3 vs. 3 with Freedom, Strike, Buster vs. Forbidden, Calamity, Raider. But that's beside the point. Fraga DOES fire on Calamity near a forest and port area. It could've been him.

pyu · 2004-12-14, 00:28

It doesn't matter really. Its a plot device to get Shinn all antagonistic on Kira's ass when he sees the latter in Freedom.

ForceFreedom · 2004-12-14, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by kikko_s

Well, we can't rule out Calamity for that measly reason, but you have a point about Mwu.

Well what would be the point of Calamity being pinned for it? First off, as a "bad guy", it's not really anything shocking that Orga killed a few civilians (and laughed hysterically while doing so), and also he's dead, so the realization won't drive the plot anymore than:

Plot Device: Yeah, it was Calamity.
Shinn: Oh. Gee. Shucks. I'm gonna go listen to my sister's cellphone now.

We all know the plot turns that can be derived from Kira being 'guilty', but wouldnt it be interesting if Fraga was actual the accidental killer and is indeed Neo?

SuperKnuckles · 2004-12-14, 00:46

I don't think it'd have mattered WHO was directly responsible for the deaths of Shinn's family. I would assume that Shinn would be angry at the Feddies and Orb all the same for fighting out in the island.

[UKE]Auel · 2004-12-14, 01:46

I've been standing by this theory for a long time, and people seem to dismiss it immediately because they're idiots or because they're assholes. I think they didn't show who actually is responsible for a reason. What reason, I'm not sure. For all we know, Shinn's father could've been a suicide bomber. We're gonna have to wait and see.

Timeless Enigma · 2004-12-14, 02:09

I doubt watching SEED would help solve this matter. Unless Destiny was planned before the creation of that battle a specific incriminating scene in SEED means nothing. The way I look at it is it's a quasi-plot hole. Fukuda was probably like, "Well we need to torture Kira more and we need a new angsty, emo lead, so let's just fudge up a new scene!"

Oh well... personally I think the Asukas died from their own stupidity. The first thought that ran through my mind was "WHO GIVES A FUCK ABOUT A CELLPHONE? DO YOU WANT TO DIE?" And apparently she did... Daddy and Mommy decided to stand still too...

That scene is a perfect example of "what not to do during an evacuation." example. I mean, I'm sure everyone was taught in school that when you're evacuating you drop everything and get the hell out. So what if your computer with all your pr0n is still inside the house?[/rant]

Lunas · 2004-12-14, 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timeless Enigma

I doubt watching SEED would help solve this matter. Unless Destiny was planned before the creation of that battle a specific incriminating scene in SEED means nothing. The way I look at it is it's a quasi-plot hole. Fukuda was probably like, "Well we need to torture Kira more and we need a new angsty, emo lead, so let's just fudge up a new scene!"

Oh well... personally I think the Asukas died from their own stupidity. The first thought that ran through my mind was "WHO GIVES A FUCK ABOUT A CELLPHONE? DO YOU WANT TO DIE?" And apparently she did... Daddy and Mommy decided to stand still too...

That scene is a perfect example of "what not to do during an evacuation." example. I mean, I'm sure everyone was taught in school that when you're evacuating you drop everything and get the hell out. So what if your computer with all your pr0n is still inside the house?[/rant]

Note shin survived because he went to get the phone... Had he ignored the phone all of them would have died...

Madell · 2004-12-14, 03:33

this is what happened....freedom was fighting forbidden...he shot...forbidden did that beam thingy the beam went to the ground and then it hit the ground where his family was....and when he looked up he saw freedom....but u can't give freedom or forbidden the fault because freedom thought he could hit him....he shot at FORBIDDEN not on the family...and forbidden did that thingy and when he does that the beam goes so much every where he can't control the beam....thats what i think but it may be not true.....sry for bad english

Depresionist · 2004-12-14, 03:46

Only thing Shinn can blame is his incest love for his sister, thus making him think about it too much, thus making him horny, thus making him desperate, thus making him blame Kira. Now Kira has to complain that his sister's not as hot! Seed sure likes it's incest.

Whitemoon648 · 2004-12-14, 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyu

It doesn't matter really. Its a plot device to get Shinn all antagonistic on Kira's ass when he sees the latter in Freedom.

ok, one thing. kira WONT be Piloting FREEDOOm. u ask WHY ? because it got completley pwn and distryed by LE RE CRUSE, in the LAST EPisode of GUndam SEED. ^_^

jpwong · 2004-12-14, 03:57

Even if Kira wasn't the one who shot, Shinn obviously didn't see who did and Freedom was the most prominent Mobile Suit on the battlefield (of the ones that are still intact) and therefore the easiest to remember and thus also the easiest to blame. Driving the plot, Shinn will probably blame Freedom and then at some later point in time the whole sequence of events will be revealed and we'll see that it was someone else and we'll get the whole Shinn will feel bad thing going.

Disclaimer: This is all just speculation, not actual concrete facts on what is to come. If any of this does turn out to be true, it was simply coincedence.

For Anime123, It would have probably been fairly easy to repair the Freedom. It didn't actually suffer any sever damages from what I could see. The Neutron Jammer Canceller and Nuclear Reactor appear to be relativly undamaged. The rest was really sort of superficial. I mean, heads, arms, and legs are all replaceable and the cockpit area only suffered what appears to be external laser damage.

srb · 2004-12-14, 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madell

this is what happened....freedom was fighting forbidden...he shot...forbidden did that beam thingy the beam went to the ground and then it hit the ground where his family was....and when he looked up he saw freedom....but u can't give freedom or forbidden the fault because freedom thought he could hit him....he shot at FORBIDDEN not on the family...and forbidden did that thingy and when he does that the beam goes so much every where he can't control the beam....thats what i think but it may be not true.....sry for bad english

1) Kira in Freedom fought Orga in Calamity.

2) I doubt that Calamity was close enough to the Asuka's so that the explosion would be so severe, because then they would be even more stupid than they already are by standing right next to a hostile mobile suit.

3) Calamity's beam also fired downwards, not upwards, but I'm liking this whole "Fraga did it" theory but the truth is that we don't know. The previews made it look like a missile attack killed his family and everyone assumed that, but it was proven wrong later on, right?

Madell · 2004-12-14, 09:35

no u can see b4 the whole beam impact thing kira did his 5 way attack or whats it called...so 1 beam could have been going to forbidden...and on the last 5 secs u see freedom fighting forbidden....and it was 2 vs 3 that day...

[UKE]Auel · 2004-12-14, 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madell

no u can see b4 the whole beam impact thing kira did his 5 way attack or whats it called...so 1 beam could have been going to forbidden...and on the last 5 secs u see freedom fighting forbidden....and it was 2 vs 3 that day...

All you see is the beam firing, and then the explosion.

There's no indication that Freedom or Calamity did it, since the next thing we saw was Shinn being blown away. :fingers: Sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anime123

ok, one thing. kira WONT be Piloting FREEDOOm. u ask WHY ? because it got completley pwn and distryed by LE RE CRUSE, in the LAST EPisode of GUndam SEED. ^_^

Uhh, first of all, Freedom has already been confirmed in Destiny, several times over, so that's your first idiotic statement. Second, it's been two years since then, and if there was enough time to make the memorial site where Shinn's family died, then there's plenty of enough time to reconstruct Freedom. And Jesus Christ, use spell check and lay off the caps a little.

Demon-Hunter · 2004-12-14, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anime123

ok, one thing. kira WONT be Piloting FREEDOOm. u ask WHY ? because it got completley pwn and distryed by LE RE CRUSE, in the LAST EPisode of GUndam SEED. ^_^

Wrong. Just by looking at the opening of GSD u see otherwise

Additionally, freedom lost only its limbs. it didnt lose the cockpit, therefore the OS is intact. i also believe that the nuclear powered engine was not severily damaged too since its prolly located behid the pilot at the back of the gundam. Oh yeah, and we also know how much Orb likes to repair stuff

ForceFreedom · 2004-12-14, 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madell

no u can see b4 the whole beam impact thing kira did his 5 way attack or whats it called...so 1 beam could have been going to forbidden...and on the last 5 secs u see freedom fighting forbidden....and it was 2 vs 3 that day...

I'd really appreciate it if you read my initial post.

When Justice arrives, it's already the second battle at Orb. Think about it, why would civilians still be evacuating after the first battle that destroys the city is over? Hmm? That insinuates that the battle is the first EA attack on Orb, therefore Athrun hasnt arrived yet and it's Kira VS Forbidden and Raider in the air, and Fraga and Dearka VS Calamity on the ground.
Kire only HI-Mat's once in that fight, and that is against a bunch of cannon fodder Strike Daggers. He shoots 5 beams, and you see 5 Daggers get pwned. (and then he does the l337 shield drop-double sword-shield pickup)

Madell · 2004-12-14, 13:32

maybe because there are to many peaople on orb......i was in a war myself....i know that the evacuation of a town isnt even a DAY so what would it be for 1 country ??

ironbomb · 2004-12-14, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madell

maybe because there are to many peaople on orb......i was in a war myself....i know that the evacuation of a town isnt even a DAY so what would it be for 1 country ??

well like someone mentioned, orb is a relatively small country. Also Like i think about it, It could of been mwa flaga, i never thought it oculda been him using strike, but mayb. I gotta rewatch Seed and then First ep of Destiny another time to see tis. But I would say that the evacuation of shinn's family was during the first battle.

Madell · 2004-12-14, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironbomb

well like someone mentioned, orb is a relatively small country. Also Like i think about it, It could of been mwa flaga, i never thought it oculda been him using strike, but mayb. I gotta rewatch Seed and then First ep of Destiny another time to see tis. But I would say that the evacuation of shinn's family was during the first battle.

i'll bet there are over 50000+ people on orb

2004-12-13, 23:36	Link #1
ForceFreedom Member Join Date: Oct 2004	I don't think Kira killed Shinn's family Ok I rewatched a bit of Gundam Seed today just for shits and giggles, and I decided to pay attention to the first fight between EA and Orb, when the time that Azreal gives Orb to side with the EA expires. I assume that this is when the events in the first scene of GSD transpire, since the civilians wouldn't be evacuating during the other battles to follow, and also Athrun hasn't joined the fight yet. So there's a familiar scene where we see Calamity in the forest, while Freedom dukes it out with Raider and Forbidden in the sky. GSD sets up the scene to look like Kira killed the Asuka's with a missed HI-Mat while trying to shoot Calamity. Well...the only time he uses a HI-Mat in the battle is at the start, to pwn a bunch of Strike Daggers on some rocky terrain where the Astray girls are (the whole scene where the girls are like "OMFG Kira=teh awesome"). For the rest of the fight, Kira is engaged with Forbidden and Raider high above the ocean. Now the intresting part. Fraga decides to engage Calamity with Strike. They both fly around at ground level blasting everything except eachother. I know its kinda out there, but I think we can safely rule out Calamity killing Shinns family (because that would be boring), but what about Fraga? He even said himself: "I'm just a n00b". Is it possible that Fraga might have blown the Asuka's to bits?

2004-12-14, 02:09	Link #7
Timeless Enigma Tsushima Masaki Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: British Columbia, Canada	I doubt watching SEED would help solve this matter. Unless Destiny was planned before the creation of that battle a specific incriminating scene in SEED means nothing. The way I look at it is it's a quasi-plot hole. Fukuda was probably like, "Well we need to torture Kira more and we need a new angsty, emo lead, so let's just fudge up a new scene!" Oh well... personally I think the Asukas died from their own stupidity. The first thought that ran through my mind was "WHO GIVES A FUCK ABOUT A CELLPHONE? DO YOU WANT TO DIE?" And apparently she did... Daddy and Mommy decided to stand still too... That scene is a perfect example of "what not to do during an evacuation." example. I mean, I'm sure everyone was taught in school that when you're evacuating you drop everything and get the hell out. So what if your computer with all your pr0n is still inside the house?[/rant] __________________

2004-12-14, 03:46	Link #10
Depresionist Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Age: 38	Only thing Shinn can blame is his incest love for his sister, thus making him think about it too much, thus making him horny, thus making him desperate, thus making him blame Kira. Now Kira has to complain that his sister's not as hot! Seed sure likes it's incest. __________________

2004-12-14, 00:28	Link #3
pyu Crouchety Old Man Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Singapore	It doesn't matter really. Its a plot device to get Shinn all antagonistic on Kira's ass when he sees the latter in Freedom.

2004-12-14, 00:46	Link #5
SuperKnuckles Anime Hobbyist Join Date: Dec 2004	I don't think it'd have mattered WHO was directly responsible for the deaths of Shinn's family. I would assume that Shinn would be angry at the Feddies and Orb all the same for fighting out in the island.

2004-12-14, 01:46	Link #6
[UKE]Auel The Oncoming Storm Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 40	I've been standing by this theory for a long time, and people seem to dismiss it immediately because they're idiots or because they're assholes. I think they didn't show who actually is responsible for a reason. What reason, I'm not sure. For all we know, Shinn's father could've been a suicide bomber. We're gonna have to wait and see.

2004-12-14, 03:33	Link #9
Madell Member Join Date: Dec 2004	this is what happened....freedom was fighting forbidden...he shot...forbidden did that beam thingy the beam went to the ground and then it hit the ground where his family was....and when he looked up he saw freedom....but u can't give freedom or forbidden the fault because freedom thought he could hit him....he shot at FORBIDDEN not on the family...and forbidden did that thingy and when he does that the beam goes so much every where he can't control the beam....thats what i think but it may be not true.....sry for bad english

2004-12-14, 03:57	Link #12
jpwong Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004	Even if Kira wasn't the one who shot, Shinn obviously didn't see who did and Freedom was the most prominent Mobile Suit on the battlefield (of the ones that are still intact) and therefore the easiest to remember and thus also the easiest to blame. Driving the plot, Shinn will probably blame Freedom and then at some later point in time the whole sequence of events will be revealed and we'll see that it was someone else and we'll get the whole Shinn will feel bad thing going. Disclaimer: This is all just speculation, not actual concrete facts on what is to come. If any of this does turn out to be true, it was simply coincedence. For Anime123, It would have probably been fairly easy to repair the Freedom. It didn't actually suffer any sever damages from what I could see. The Neutron Jammer Canceller and Nuclear Reactor appear to be relativly undamaged. The rest was really sort of superficial. I mean, heads, arms, and legs are all replaceable and the cockpit area only suffered what appears to be external laser damage.

2004-12-14, 09:35	Link #14
Madell Member Join Date: Dec 2004	no u can see b4 the whole beam impact thing kira did his 5 way attack or whats it called...so 1 beam could have been going to forbidden...and on the last 5 secs u see freedom fighting forbidden....and it was 2 vs 3 that day...

2004-12-14, 13:32	Link #18
Madell Member Join Date: Dec 2004	maybe because there are to many peaople on orb......i was in a war myself....i know that the evacuation of a town isnt even a DAY so what would it be for 1 country ??