Tate no Yuusha/Shield Hero - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Kairin]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Shield Hero, Episode 4.

Thread Guidelines

• Raw requests and offers are not permitted anywhere on this forum.
• Spoilers or hints about future events must not be posted in this thread.
  If you need to reference something that would spoil a future event, reply directly with a private message, or seek out a more appropriate thread.
• Discuss your expectations of the episode if it has not aired yet.
• Be polite to your fellow forum members.
• Please try to keep the discussion on-topic.
• Character bashing is not on-topic and will not be tolerated.
• Do not post multiple times in a row. Please edit your existing post if you wish to add additional thoughts.

Episode Thread Spoiler Policy

• Any comment that discloses events, characters, plot or other information before it is revealed in the anime is expressly forbidden whether or not it is behind spoiler tags.
  Spoiler tags should still be used where appropriate.
  Please consult the AnimeSuki Spoiler Policy for more information.
• Adding a Spoiler tag:
  

  Just highlight your spoiler and click the button found on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms. Make sure that you include a useful title!

• Please use the Report button if you see any inappropriate spoilers:
  

  Click the button found to the left of the post, just under the poster's avatar. Using the Report button is anonymous and helps the Moderators locate and deal with problems quickly.

• Posting inappropriate spoilers may result in a ban.
  Note: Reporting a post does not mean the poster will be banned instantly.
  The Moderators will use bans if warnings are repeatedly ignored.

[Stark700]

Damn, I really can't stand that Spear hero guy. Almost everyone else is also so judgemental towards Naofumi. I feel really bad for him...

Motoyasu absolutely deserved the bitch slap from Raphtalia though. It's baffling how naive he can be and while being manipulated. On the other hand, glad to see that Raphtalia growing up more while showing her loyalty.

[BWTraveller]

Currently reading the LN and manga, and it feels like they changed things up here a bit, some for the better and some just odd.

Spoiler for difference:

In the manga/LN Motoyasu seemed a lot louder and more intense when he rebuked Naofumi over the slave thing. He was also more pompous, but didn't appear to land a single blow in the duel, and when Naofumi was knocked over immediately put the spear to his neck and declared victory. I'd say this is at least a bit more believable, with him actually managing to land a few blows and then launching a serious strike to claim victory at the end. Motoyasu's twice Naofumi's level, it stands to reason he'd at least put up some fight.

I really liked how the aftermath of the fight was presented; seemed to do a good job at showing just how broken Naofumi was, how his pain and cynicism had practically blinded him to the point he still saw an actual ten-year-old Raphtalia next to him throughout.

Additionally, while I'm not sure Itsuki and Ren have started to question Naofumi's guilt, it's nice to see they at least have enough honor to call Mein out when she blasts Naofumi mid-duel and declare it Motoyasu's loss, not to mention recognizing that the audience couldn't possibly have contradicted the king and his daughter.

[Ichinotachi]

Motoyasu and Mein are both such pieces of shit, Motoyasu is dancing on her hand and falling for every single trick. Honestly I really want to see both of them dead, they don't deserve anything else.

It was nice to see the other 2 heroes finally doing some justice since the king and Mein were manipulating the audience just to attack naofumi and humiliate him in front of everyone, thank god that Raphtalia is truly a great girl that really understand Naofumi and knows who he really is instead of falling for the lies and the rumors created by Mein.

That last scene with Raphtalia and Naofumi gave me flashbacks of Re:Zero and the scene with Rem and Subaru when she gave him the strenght needed to surpass his weakness and despair. It was a great episode, some changes here and there but the message is the same.

Spoiler for Tanuki the best:

Spoiler for Raph:

[Dharma]

Raftalia's rebuke was quite on point.

So sword and bow are willing to confront the king... Brave or stupid? Still playing a game much?

Spoiler for speculations:

Maybe king and princess are good guys and did all that to unlock that curse thing which is OP and will be instrumental in winning the war? Why else would they undermine their protectors?

[Kanon]

I really enjoyed this episode. I thought things were going to take a really bad turn for a moment here, but thanks to Bow, Sword, and more importantly Raphtalia, the healing has begun for Naofumi.

Bow and Sword turned out to be alright guys. When they see blatant cheating, they don't turn a blind eye to it even if it means going up against the King. They could also see that Raphtalia genuinely loves Naofumi. They're probably going to see Naofumi differently after this and start to question things.

Motoyasu, on the other hand, is full of himself and in denial now. Even after what happened, he still believes he was in the right. He's going to head down a wrong path with that kind of mindset, especially with a poisonous girl like Myne at his side.

Raphtalia is definitely the best girl, which doesn't mean much given she has basically zero competition, so let's just say she's a great girl. She was aware of the rumors surrounding Naofumi but chose to trust him. Thanks to her, Naofumi is back to normal. I wonder if he kept the curse shield he unlocked (obviously the flame shield from the OP) or if he'll only be able to use it once he hits rock bottom again. I guess it's the latter since it looks like it's really powerful and allows him to attack, which takes away his uniqueness. Then again, that dog shield attacked too, although I have no idea how much damage it did.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Dharma

Raftalia's rebuke was quite on point.

So sword and bow are willing to confront the king... Brave or stupid? Still playing a game much?

Spoiler for speculations:

Maybe king and princess are good guys and did all that to unlock that curse thing which is OP and will be instrumental in winning the war? Why else would they undermine their protectors?

Spoiler for speculations:

Seems rather unlikely to me. Generally by RPG standards any game with a "curse" in the name is likely to seriously hurt the user at least as much as it hurts enemies. So even if it does somehow make it so he can injure opponents, it'd probably cripple him in the long run. Not to mention that part of how he managed to hit such a low point that seems necessary to activate it was the near-universal rejection by all of the upper-class which trickled down resulting in just slightly less unanimous hate from people outside the king's court. What value is there in getting a person a weapon if you have to make absolute certain that the only people he'd want to use it on are you and the people you want protected? Far more likely that they hate the shield and want to control and oppress him. In fact, if they do hate not just him but the shield as a whole, that might be why they chose to summon him despite their hatred: if it's unusual for all to be summoned then he probably would've been summoned elsewhere, and they'd have the detestable Shield wandering around loose and free.

[HandofFate]

Rathalia is a treasure T_T
channeling Rem.

Liked the little touches of PoV to show just how slightly different the UI is between Spear and Naofumi.

Also liked how it showed how distorted and broken Nao is and he still saw Rathalia as a kid, then after she healed him a bit, he suddenly realized things around him

[Drake]

After this ep I imagine sword and bow will begin to reevaluate their opinion of Naofumi. They seemed to have noticed he had been training in earnest during his duel, and it was clear to them that the king / princess had been manipulating the outcome. Will be interesting to see how they interact from here on.

[Kinematics]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Then again, that dog shield attacked too, although I have no idea how much damage it did.

Between the dog shield and the balloons, and being hit by the Erst Shield, Naofumi managed to knock off about 1/3 of Motoyasu's health bar. Meanwhile, Naofumi lost about half his health before the Lightning Spear strike, including the damage from Mein's spell.

Honestly, it's impressive how much damage Naofumi did. Or shows just how truly pitiful Motoyasu's defense is, if someone half his level with no real offense can do that much to him.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Dharma

Spoiler for speculations:

Maybe king and princess are good guys and did all that to unlock that curse thing which is OP and will be instrumental in winning the war? Why else would they undermine their protectors?

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

Spoiler for speculations:

Seems rather unlikely to me. Generally by RPG standards any game with a "curse" in the name is likely to seriously hurt the user at least as much as it hurts enemies. So even if it does somehow make it so he can injure opponents, it'd probably cripple him in the long run. Not to mention that part of how he managed to hit such a low point that seems necessary to activate it was the near-universal rejection by all of the upper-class which trickled down resulting in just slightly less unanimous hate from people outside the king's court. What value is there in getting a person a weapon if you have to make absolute certain that the only people he'd want to use it on are you and the people you want protected? Far more likely that they hate the shield and want to control and oppress him. In fact, if they do hate not just him but the shield as a whole, that might be why they chose to summon him despite their hatred: if it's unusual for all to be summoned then he probably would've been summoned elsewhere, and they'd have the detestable Shield wandering around loose and free.

Spoiler for speculations:

Things would make more sense if the summoners had some plan for cursed shield. Sure, it's being foreshadowed that the previous shield was no friend of the nobility, and they don't like their power being challenged. Still, that's no reason to ostracize Naofumi to this extent. It'd make more sense to treat him like the other heroes.

[frodonk]

Does that end the first arc? I ended up skipping most of the episode.

I couldn't stand how pompous that spear guy was, and I couldn't stand how emo Naofumi was even more.

Sure, he'd say he was in that feast mainly because of the reward, but he was sticking around as well, if he didn't like the place he could've gone somewhere else, get the money then scram.

This Motoyasu guy let his fame get into his head and is being lead around by Myne, no problem with that, but how can he be so dumb that the other 2 heroes were able to see what happened and he still didn't believe them? Did he really believe he can do no wrong? Is critical thinking not taught in their world?

Same way with Naofumi, all the heroes are just regular dudes and Naofumi got dealt a shitty hand in a world he barely knew, but his sudden transformation into this brooding emo lone wolf character came out of nowhere. Oh boohoo, my slave is being released and is going to betray me, woe is me, this is the worst, how could this happen to me? I've made my mistakes, got nowhere to run.

Suck it up, if your slave wants to leave you then so be it, if you're so unwanted even Agil from SAO won't sell you any armor, and yet he likes you enough to make you a custom! STOP BROODING!

Lastly, that issue with slaves!!! This world can't make up its mind on whether slaving demi-humans are actually good or evil! The KING himself considers slave owners to be "rotten to the core" but it is legal? WHAT? Then you have Myne saying things about Raph being demi-human, but that's more because she's a demi-human, not because she's a slave (that has been freed now)

Makes me wonder what sort of reason they'll come up with to explain why almost everyone is against the shield hero anyway.

At least that fight scene was somehow nice and exciting.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by frodonk

Lastly, that issue with slaves!!! This world can't make up its mind on whether slaving demi-humans are actually good or evil! The KING himself considers slave owners to be "rotten to the core" but it is legal? WHAT? Then you have Myne saying things about Raph being demi-human, but that's more because she's a demi-human, not because she's a slave (that has been freed now)

Convenience. It was a way to get Naofumi. Are you really expecting moral integrity out of king and princess of all people?

[Twi]

Naofumi was far more emo in the manga, but the point is Naofumi is justifiably angry. Rationally speaking, there was literally nothing stopping Naofumi from freeing Raph, her meeting up with him outside, and going to get the brand reapplied or even just staying partied afterwards. Or him getting another slave.

But this? This was personal. It made it perfectly clear if they did it once they'd do it again. It made it clear that the King and Myne wanted to screw him over solely because he was the Shield Hero, summoned by them and unable to go back home until they say so. This was everyone else in that audience (all Nobility at that) willing to turn a blind eye while he got screwed over and then calling for him to be killed. It is literally him against the world for reasons that aren't his fault.

Motoyatsu, as established, is an idiot and a perfect pawn. Because right here you saw both the Sword and Bow would actually speak up. While they do believe that Naofumi may have done what was said before, they personally saw in front of their eyes that he was wronged and Raph actually did care about him.

[Tactics]

I don't see problem with Naofumi sticking around.

He is poor, can be said the poorest among 4 Heroes.

Aside of reward, the feast have large amount of foods for free, going there would the best if you want to keep expenses minimum.
With his reputation, not going there won't make it better but only make others perception on him worsened as he might be branded as anti-social hero who didn't want to socialize with others. At least by going there, he can keep himself away from unnecessary opinions while also keeping distance (until Motoyasu arrives).

Brooding is normal on his case.
He arguably working the hardest among heroes, his trust at most times low since he framed, then he have an ally of justice asking for duel on arena where 99% people despise him, ignore how there's someone cheating, while also taking his only close person to trust who also his only way to get stronger under Shield limitation.

He is not Kirito who can walk away leaving people in awe even with whole city despise him.
His level is half of other heroes, cheap equipment from blacksmith kindness, no one truly willing to be his party member but slave, then his higher-up treating him like a trash despite summoning him as well. I'm more surprised if he stop brooding and be able to take all of that with happy-go-lucky attitude.

[felix]

Assuming Spear-idiot wised up after getting censured by the other heroes, then he should probably realize the claims from before were untrue and that he's wearing Naofumi's shit. Death from shame.

To be honest the terms were already shameful enough. Tofu has to beat knife? They might as well said, to win you have to make Motsuya win. If Naofumi wins he gets shit all and if he loses he loses everything, also spear bitch loses nothing either way? Are the other heroes unaware that you can't wield another weapon? For all the "good points" they get for calling the cheat, they lose back for going along with this obvious trolling to start with.

-

Very glad the curse is gone and Naofumi and Raphalia now have a proper relationship. May we never see it again.
I like how the story tries to redeem the curse slave seal by making Motsuya make a stupid argument against it. Shameless storytelling at it's finest.

Rapid aging still pretty silly.

The meltdown felt a bit forced. He didn't seem that out of control till now. Hm.
Not sure I like this slide of hand antics for plot development. You can just introduce any shit at any time like this.
I guess it's inline with the rapid aging deus ex machina shenanigans.

-

If you can take off the shield and throw it, then just do that more often! Probably hurts.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by frodonk

Does that end the first arc? I ended up skipping most of the episode.

I couldn't stand how pompous that spear guy was, and I couldn't stand how emo Naofumi was even more.

Sure, he'd say he was in that feast mainly because of the reward, but he was sticking around as well, if he didn't like the place he could've gone somewhere else, get the money then scram.

This Motoyasu guy let his fame get into his head and is being lead around by Myne, no problem with that, but how can he be so dumb that the other 2 heroes were able to see what happened and he still didn't believe them? Did he really believe he can do no wrong? Is critical thinking not taught in their world?

Same way with Naofumi, all the heroes are just regular dudes and Naofumi got dealt a shitty hand in a world he barely knew, but his sudden transformation into this brooding emo lone wolf character came out of nowhere. Oh boohoo, my slave is being released and is going to betray me, woe is me, this is the worst, how could this happen to me? I've made my mistakes, got nowhere to run.

Suck it up, if your slave wants to leave you then so be it, if you're so unwanted even Agil from SAO won't sell you any armor, and yet he likes you enough to make you a custom! STOP BROODING!

Lastly, that issue with slaves!!! This world can't make up its mind on whether slaving demi-humans are actually good or evil! The KING himself considers slave owners to be "rotten to the core" but it is legal? WHAT? Then you have Myne saying things about Raph being demi-human, but that's more because she's a demi-human, not because she's a slave (that has been freed now)

Makes me wonder what sort of reason they'll come up with to explain why almost everyone is against the shield hero anyway.

At least that fight scene was somehow nice and exciting.

For starters, it's hardly unheard of for slavery to be a touchy subject that some would view as evil even in places where it's legal. I myself have an ancestor who lived in the South and even gave most of his money to the war effort on account of family in the army, but who freed every slave he inherited because he could not reconcile it with his beliefs.

But on top of that, one could possibly question whether the most outrageous part to the king was that he had a slave, or that he was with a demi-human. Again, there's a whole lot of open hatred for demi-humans. But all that said, it's pretty clear at least that they recognize how some would view a person being forced into slavery, considering how Mein used it to trigger the duel and take Raphtalia from Naofumi.

As for others' complaints about Naofumi staying, I'm not entirely sure whether he'd gotten the money yet. He only said he wouldn't be there if not for the reward. If the rewards were to be presented during or after the banquet it'd explain his continued presence.

And while I've harped on it before but I still feel like it's a little off to call things this early in the story stuff like "deus ex machina" or "shoehorned in". This is an entirely different world with mechanics that are introduced in the first few episodes. One could call any fact about the world introduced "shoehorned in" or "DEM" if they wanted to. Generally at this point I'm willing to accept introductions of facets of the world as just that, facets of what the world is. If a rule were to be introduced in episode six or something that seemed too convenient and could've been addressed earlier, that'd be something different, but for now I'd say we're not far enough in to "shoehorn".

[Twi]

Originally Posted by felix

Assuming Spear-idiot wised up after getting censured by the other heroes, then he should probably realize the claims from before were untrue and that he's wearing Naofumi's shit. Death from shame.

To be honest the terms were already shameful enough. Tofu has to beat knife? They might as well said, to win you have to make Motsuya win. If Naofumi wins he gets shit all and if he loses he loses everything, also spear bitch loses nothing either way? Are the other heroes unaware that you can't wield another weapon? For all the "good points" they get for calling the cheat, they lose back for going along with this obvious trolling to start with.

-

Very glad the curse is gone and Naofumi and Raphalia now have a proper relationship. May we never see it again.
I like how the story tries to redeem the curse slave seal by making Motsuya make a stupid argument against it. Shameless storytelling at it's finest.

Rapid aging still pretty silly.

The meltdown felt a bit forced. He didn't seem that out of control till now. Hm.
Not sure I like this slide of hand antics for plot development. You can just introduce any shit at any time like this.
I guess it's inline with the rapid aging deus ex machina shenanigans.

-

If you can take off the shield and throw it, then just do that more often! Probably hurts.

He didn't seem that out of control because they toned down a lot of the blowups from the other source materials. For example, in the manga (Chapter 6), he got right up in Motoyatsu's face during the scene at the Dragon's Hourglass and then took Raph out in the field so he could punch Balloons to death in order to vent his unyielding rage while thinking that Raph is a woman just like Myne and would turn on him.

Because they put a lot of his worse moments of anger so far on the backburner to make him seem more mature, it comes off as this being the breaking point. The point where he couldn't handle it anymore, hence his awakening of the Curse Shield series and that flame.

I still think that the other heroes are right, he shouldn't have a slave. Raph's argument about Spear not having a slave is also flawed because the ideal hero wouldn't take a slave, they'd free them as well as give them medicine. And if this was a more lighthearted series, you know exact that's what Naofumi would have done.

However, as Naofumi pointed out, it's legal (meaning they need to take it up with the King) and he literally cannot attack, which made the duel itself a problem that was going to be one side beating up on the other. It's this or he'd die, so they can shut up or give him viable alternatives. Now, if from this moment on Naofumi stayed partnered with Raph without the brand, the issue would be solved.

Also, if Balloons are the weakest of monsters, how did they do that much damage to Spear-boy? His defenses must be paper-thin, like a Glass Cannon build.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Twi

He didn't seem that out of control because they toned down a lot of the blowups from the other source materials.

Hm. Give me a reason/argument why I should care that in the manga/novel he's more out of control in other parts?

He's not in the anime, I don't see why the "alternative history" matters here.
If it wasn't adapted (or adapted differently), doesn't count. Different Naofumi's.

Originally Posted by frodonk

but his sudden transformation into this brooding emo lone wolf character came out of nowhere. Oh boohoo, my slave is being released and is going to betray me, woe is me, this is the worst, how could this happen to me? I've made my mistakes, got nowhere to run.

Suck it up, if your slave wants to leave you then so be it,

Now that you mention it that is pretty weird.

I do think it's okey for him to be disappointed she wouldn't stick with him. But you're right the emo mode is completely wrong emotion there
It's especially strange if we take the "he was being strategic when he got her." He should be more composed and pragmatic.

Oh well whatever.... let's just say it's the shield fault. That's the way they seem to be suggesting it with the scars on his face when he's in crazy mode and the darkness thing. Poor guy, even the stupid thing that caused all his troubles doesn't like him.

Originally Posted by Twi

Also, if Balloons are the weakest of monsters, how did they do that much damage to Spear-boy? His defenses must be paper-thin, like a Glass Cannon build.

Raph said that humans fear demi-humans because of the level up growth thing which is like monsters. So presumably that means monster level up. Which means those balloons could actually be on the same level as Naofumi, maybe.

[Wandering Soul]

Motoyasu really is an easy pawn and I expect he'll be exploited for episodes to come. At least Sword and Bow proved to be smarter dudes and showed that they don't turn a
blind eye to the king's schemes

Raphalia really is a precious gem. While her defense of Naofumi was sweet, I think there is some merit to Motoyasu'a indignation.