Macross Delta - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Kairin]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Macross, Episode 21.

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[CriiGV]

Spoiler for episode 21:

I gasped so hard when Heinz' scars were revealed. Poor kid is killing himself for the cause. Keith was pissed and rightfully so. I wanted him to punch Roid but alas.

Also Mikumo...man, as each episode goes by my thoughts that she'll be the final boss keep getting stronger and stronger.

[Jingdot]

Spoiler for Episode:

They finally started to step up their game for this anime

We get to learn how Walküre was formed - it's original members consisted of Kaname, Makina, Reina and two other girls (I forgot their names already, sorry). The latter gave up halfway and then Mikumo joined. The Kaname/Arad/Messer-game in this episode is also strong Mikumo is back in the game and Freyja and Hayate still seem to have problems so Mirage's speech may have not helped like it should have/was intended to.

Keith goes to Heinz room after he collapsed and finds out that Heinz is getting those white marks/scars the Winderpeople get when they are starting to get close to their 30-year lifespan by ripping his highness' clothes apart. He confronts Roid about it. Roid already knew and he (at least I understood it that way) also admits that he killed ol' Gramia.

Roid gets some star sparkle inside his brain and mumbles Rudanjal Rom Mayan justlike Mikumo and gets a vision/something like that of the star singer.

Berger seems to be a really, really shady person - he may also be/or is connected to the supervillain that we get as a endgame or he may play a huge part in the endgame.

Mikumo reunites with the Walküre members (except Freiyja) and tells them despite knowing that she is not human and stuff she will still keep singing with them.


Fun Fact: I'm in Tokyo at the moment so I saw all the commercials before/during the episode (which were a lot, sadly ) and during the game commercial for the Scramble game for Delta, Kaname and Messer were narrating the commercial. It was reeeaaaallyyy full of KanamexMesser. Kaname even said something about choosing your favourite characters and that Freyja is going to support someone else because she (kaname) will of course do Messers support ( yes, she really said it like that ). It even ended with a "Kaname-san..." and a heartfelt "Messer-kun..." by Kaname.

My japanese is not perfect yet so I may have not understood everything well of this episode :/


Edit: the preview for episode 22 showed Mikumo talking together with Hayate - maybe Kumokumo will get her favourite ship called HayaFrey back to sailing

[ReddyRedWolf]

Spoiler:

Pretty much Walkure origin story. The same year Chaos had Thrones it created another idol team. It had five members. Kaname was supposed to be a manager but became a member. 11 year old loner Reina is boxed hacker. Makina was a mechanic who wants to be an idol. Training would've made Colonel Burton proud. One girl quit at the beginning. A year later as they are deployed to quell the Var in the cluster it doesn't out like Jamming Birds. They get named Walkure. It was Makina's idea for the idol thing. Eventually they started having moderate success. Arad met Kaname saving her. He was flying a VF-31 Kairos. On Alfaheim Kaname spots Messer. Messer later joins what would be Delta Platoon. The other girl quits. Later they are joined by Mikumo who didn't join by audition. Singing on their first meeting.

Mikumo releases the team and she talks to them. They are concerned about her well being.

Meanwhile on the Windermere side they make a test on Al Shahal's citizens. Heinz collapses from the strain and the entire population falls on a coma. Keith suspicious interrupts Heinz's doctor treating him. Discovering that Heinz is dying wit the white marks on his body. Roid monologues that the Song of Wind is also a cursed song. Keith confronts him on what is happening.

Post Ed Berger talks with Roid about the mind control. Roid terminates the link after. On the Shrine of Time wondering who Mikumo is. The room lights up and info comes to him from a speck. Revealing some mechanisms and a mural of what looks like a Protoculture idol.

Walkure and Delta Platoon's next mission is on Alfaheim.

[magnuskn]

Spoiler:

Well, I am happy to see that the plot is really advancing. That was sorely needed.

And great job, Windermerans. One planetary population in a coma. What's next, heart attacks for the galaxy?

[ReddyRedWolf]

Know what...

Spoiler:

Considering Walkure had Jamming Bird level of success at the beginning I think they could've benefited from a mentor like Basara. Unfortunately Basara is the type that usually doesn't teach as seen with the Jamming Birds and Elma. Gamlin had to beg him to train his Sound Force rookies in Macross 7th Chord. That is after he saw potential in them.

Also an entire population in a coma? Better send Basara for that as waking up people up is his specialty.

[HirouKeimou]

Thank goodness it's not flashbacks of previously known footage...

Spoiler:

Most interesting areas for me is the scenes where Kaname is recalling their songs not being effective, and Arad coming to her rescue. This episode is not only recalling establishment of Walküre; it's also establishing how Arad and Kaname began interacting for Walküre.

I like how Mikumo is connecting all of Walküre in this episode. Makina and Reina share a second of understanding while hearing Mikumo sing. Their friendship is based upon that one second, of which finally explains why last episode both said they cared about Mikumo as a friend.

The end where Mikumo says she'll sing alongside Walküre even if everyone in Chaos is lying to them is moving on its own (because she's expressing her humanity finally). I like how this episode connects all of Walküre finally, and I hope Freyja will become a piece of this in the next episode.

On the other side of the coin is Windermere, which is out of their minds right now. No offense, however; I really dislike how Roid is entirely okay with not only sacrificing Heinz (who he showed care for in earlier episodes) but also enslaving his own people. I shall crawl into a hole again on his arc... as his character is coming off... I don't even know what to label him here.

And yes, everyone is right, tension is still persisting between Hayate and Freyja in this episode.

As for next episode: I hope Mikumo is not directly going to tell Hayate about Freyja being in love with him... oh boy,... although, I believe shippers who believe in Hayate/Mikumo will now be drawing fan art for this preview LOL

[Alhazred]

Spoiler:

Interesting note: when Berger was analyzing the data from Al Shahal he came to a 'surprising' conclusion. I think he said that it wasn't 'mind control' that was affecting the citizenry of Al Shahal, but rather it was 'all wills becoming one-' i.e. they networked, like the Vajra or the Galaxy plan. He wondered if this was Roid's end goal all along...

[Stark700]

That PV for the next episode...oh boy.

Spoiler:

I wonder what Mikumo and Hayate will be talking about.

Spoiler:

Anyways, I liked this week's episode focused on Walkure and their back story. Glad to see Mikumo doing better.

[Mistyclear]

Spoiler for "I'm confused"::

So what in the world is Mikumo?? An artificial creation by Chaos (she believes so but then again they could easily be lying to her, since there is still a lack of memories (if there are any)), a clone of the Star Singer (apparently she is not a clone of Minmay) or the original Star Singer (the Star Singer from the image is wearing the same outfit that Mikumo was wearing in her dream (would Chaos bother to recreate clothing, unless I guess if it has a special meaning), then there's the markings (whatever they are) that are shown again on the image and in her dream).

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Mistyclear

Spoiler:

So what in the world is Mikumo?? An artificial creation by Chaos (she believes so but then again they could easily be lying to her, since there is still a lack of memories (if there are any)), a clone of the Star Singer (apparently she is not a clone of Minmay) or the original Star Singer (the Star Singer from the image is wearing the same outfit that Mikumo was wearing in her dream (would Chaos bother to recreate clothing, unless I guess if it has a special meaning), then there's the markings (whatever they are) that are shown again on the image and in her dream).

Spoiler for mikumo:

At this point it's obvious she's either the star singer herself, or a clone of the star singer.

Personally, It think she's the real thing because she can remember some ancient memories.

[Dash_Hunter]

There were like 15 seconds of action but I don't care I'll take them, it also helped that it wasn't just only back-story (which I really liked even if it's not essential to the plot) but they also advanced the windermere side of the story, oh and Messer appeared so that's a whole extra point I'll give to this episode after watching with subs and rating it heh

About Mikumo

Spoiler for Spoilers:

At this point I think there are just two options for what or who she is:
-A clone of the original/last star singer made by Xaos - This is the option that Mikumo apparently believes.
-The real star singer, and Xaos just found her in suspended animation or something- this would explain the memories she has been regaining.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Berger Stone theorizing again...

Spoiler:

After studying effects on Al Shahal the citizens brainwaves were networked. Berger asks if a collective hivemind was Roid's goal all along.

Back in Frontier Grace said Macross Galaxy is gong to surpass the Protoculture in something even they could not or dare not do.

Could Roid be another Collective hivemind believer? Is Galaxy planning to hijack Roid's work?

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Spoiler:

Could Roid be another Collective hivemind believer? Is Galaxy planning to hijack Roid's work?

Spoiler:

Since the topic keeps coming up, it seems like a reasonable assumption that the hivemind will be attempted yet again.

Though, as mentioned last week, it might just be that if Roid manages to pull this off using Heinz and the ruins alone, that he wouldn't need to spend money on Epsilon's mind control equipment, and Berger may simply act out of his own self-interest.

[Convoy]

The Windermereans used the entire population of Al Shahal as guinea pigs in a mind slavery experiment which went sideways, eh? Why am I not surprised? This series had better end with them getting their comeuppance for their crimes.

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by Convoy

The Windermereans used the entire population of Al Shahal as guinea pigs in a mind slavery experiment which went sideways, eh? Why am I not surprised? This series had better end with them getting their comeuppance for their crimes.

Doesn't seem like it went sideways so much as all according to keikaku, if Berger's insinuations are correct- and a Vajra/Galaxy-style hivemind might actually be a kind of 'solution' to the Windermere's life expectancy problem; in a single-consciousness hivemind there is no cessation with death as long as the colony survives (which was the crux of misunderstanding between the Vajra and the humans, since they couldn't comprehend that by squishing people they were actually killing them.) Still just speculation both in and out of universe, tho...

[Mistyclear]

Originally Posted by Convoy

The Windermereans used the entire population of Al Shahal as guinea pigs in a mind slavery experiment which went sideways, eh? Why am I not surprised? This series had better end with them getting their comeuppance for their crimes.

Not Windermerians, but Roid and Berger right? They are the brains behind this operation, they simply used Heinz (who is already paying the price for his singing), the knights weren't even featured and Keith is to mad at Roid I believe to fully cooperate with him.
Not saying they don't deserve punishment here, but ya this seemed to be Roid and Berger's plan, we don't know if the knights are aware of what happened on Al Shahal, but then again we don't know if they did know.


Edit: Also everyone keeps saying the Windermerians deserves punishment (myself included), but what about Berger doesn't he deserve to be punished as well??

[magnuskn]

Sooo, you guys, how many thousands of people died on Al-Shahal because of the Windermeran experiments? How many peope were in surgery, how many people were taking a commercial flight, how many were, I don't know, swimming and drowned? How many more people will now starve or die of exposure? Can't wait for the Windermere defense squad to explain that away.

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Sooo, you guys, how many thousands of people died on Al-Shahal because of the Windermeran experiments? How many peope were in surgery, how many people were taking a commercial flight, how many were, I don't know, swimming and drowned? How many more people will now starve or die of exposure? Can't wait for the Windermere defense squad to explain that away.

Not to reduce the absolute asshattery of this move, but there were likely no mass deaths due to transportation or industrial mishaps; even today we have sufficiently advanced automation that we could probably prevent those types of accidents even if every human on the face of the earth suddenly passed out- if such automation were in common use, which it probably is in Macross.

[Mistyclear]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Sooo, you guys, how many thousands of people died on Al-Shahal because of the Windermeran experiments? How many peope were in surgery, how many people were taking a commercial flight, how many were, I don't know, swimming and drowned? How many more people will now starve or die of exposure? Can't wait for the Windermere defense squad to explain that away.

I'm not going to defend them as I do believe they deserve punishment, but sadly in Macross Franchise this episode is by no means the worst loss of life... Goodbye billions of citizens of Earth and if I remember correctly Windermere lost millions via dimension bomb, Grace alone destroyed an entire world (plus Vajra killed quite a few people), protodevilin (forgot the guy's name) also destroyed a world, in Zero the bird human thing was going to kill all humans. In Macross damages tend to spread far and wide.