Macross Delta - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[Kairin]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Macross Delta, Episode 17.

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[Stark700]

Spoiler:

Wow this episode went full Walkure mode especially Makina. Might possibly be their biggest performance yet (I lol'd @ Bogue's reaction).

Also, I think Freyja was close to confessing to Hayate...

[CriiGV]

Spoiler for sweet baby jesus:

Hayate's dad confirmed for having nuked windermere.

[Tak]

This episode's reaction:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahaHAHAHahahahahahahahahaha ha!!

Holy $h!t, that look on Boogie's face! Its like SDF all over again.

Spoiler for But this is what I am talking about...:

Just count the amount of screen-time for Mirage vs Frejya. Hell, compare Mirage's screen-time to some other characters... She is not even on for what? 15 seconds?

- Tak

[ReddyRedWolf]

Spoiler:

At the beginning we get a monologue of Roid having a existential crisis why Terrans are more blessed than Windermereans. Having a longer lifespan despite being physically weaker and no runes while their own lives are so short. So he aims to make the Wind Singer king of the galaxy to prove a point.

Walkure formulate a plan in countering Windermere's plan by getting the ruins under their influence. To do that they do a galaxy wide vaccine concert. As people download it they can infiltrate computer networks particularly Windermere's. Bogue catches a bunch watchng the concert but can't control his rune listening to Freyja. A hologram message of Reina shows up making Bogue scared like the last time. Reina trolling him. With that they can infiltrate Voldor with NUNS resistance assistance, who were freed the last time they were there.

On Windermere Roid is studying Freyja. Berger shows up seeing watching the event of Randal. Prime 4-koma material if you ask me. Berger a Roid talk about Freyja.

Bogue and the twins inspect the new grunts plots of the Drakens. Quasim has his qualms of this whole affair that Helmann acknowledges.

The connection and romance between Hayate and Freyja go deeper that it affects Hayate's senses. Must be how the Sivil feel around Basara. Mikumo, Makina and Reina take notice of Freyja's change around Hayate. Meanwhile Mirage is hurt that she don't seem to have a chance.

On Mikumo just as she comments Freyja's songs has changed Freyja takes note the Mikumo just did too. Kaname gives us a flashback of her and Mikumo talking about that Mikumo doesn't know her own history. When is her birthday and who she is.

Robert Kino can't keep his mouth shut. Tells Hayate that his father was on Windermere and runs off. Arad has to deal with the repercussions. Arad tells why he kept it secret and why Kino was angry at Wright Immelman. It was Wright Immelman that dropped the MDE. NUNS kept that classified.

Hayate will find out the truth later. First he has a mission to fulfill. As the Aethermeets up with Larzabal's resistance group.

[charles883]

Spoiler for spoiler:

Kinda sad to see Hayate found out that his father the one who caused war in the first place. But my theory is that there possible conspiracy going on. Also it seems some of the Aerial Knight plan to defect to Chaos in next episode. This shows that not all Windermere are in Roid goal

[ValvraveTruth]

Thats why i said FreyjaxHayate will not happen, this episode pretty much screaming it. Its not about Hayate's father bomb Vindermere, but the fact that Freyja's life is short. And at the beginning of the episode, it was said that Vindermere people's life expectancy can be even shorter than 30 years.

WHATSMORE Hayate still didn't notice the feelings despite the whole birthday episode until the music backstage of this episode and his reaction for the feeling was short!!

I believe Freyja will wish HayatexMirage to be together and be happy at the end of series, She is going to sing for the peoples happiness until her life ends
Of course I'm riding the Freyja ship, but sometimes things just won't go like you expected.

[magnuskn]

I will be really upset if they make Mirage be the Zessica of this series.

[CriiGV]

Hayate/Freyja is pretty much UNMEI and Understanding at this point.

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by Tak

Spoiler for But this is what I am talking about...:

Just count the amount of screen-time for Mirage vs Frejya. Hell, compare Mirage's screen-time to some other characters... She is not even on for what? 15 seconds?

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I will be really upset if they make Mirage be the Zessica of this series.

Paranoid conspiracy theory time! Perhaps it's all a giant troll and Mirage is actually just a psychic projection (a 'mirage') created by Mikumo via bullshit protoculture asspull powers so that she could also investigate the fighting side of Chaos when she joined the singing side. Then Mikumo's melancholy this ep isn't because she's suddenly feeling bad about her missing past, but because the part of her mind that is 'Mirage' is feeling melancholy about Freyja & Hayate, and that is affecting her.

Seriously though, they only have 9 episodes to correct the fact that Mirage remains largely a non-entity since they didn't do anything about it this ep, and who knows how much time they can actually afford to budget for it. -_-;

[Thousand Mistress]

Oh yeah, haha, that was totally unexpected.

Spoiler for spoilur:

I guess Kawamori was like "HEY LET'S GO WITH EVERYONE'S HEADCANONS about Hayahaya's dad nuking Windermere!!" and good god, that reaction Freyja had was just....sad. But priceless. It's just the start of their painful moments, time to prepare tissues. But still, Hayate's quite the dense guy (not too much, though) so I doubt a couple will even end up together when the series finishes.

Freyja's rune speaks to us that Windermereans sure get easily turned on.

Mirage looking like that kinda uh, smells something bad. I just hope she doesn't do anything brash or whatever. She still has a chance on this triangle, mind you, but there's no guarantee that she will win.

For the Windermere side, I wonder how they'll (the Knights in general, most likely Keith and/or Heinz) react to knowing that Hayate Immelman, a pilot of Delta squadron, is the son of the man who nuked their planet. Roid for now doesn't seem to care too much about the war though, look at that Walkure fangasming.

Though I sure hope their short lifespan issue ends pretty soon.

[darkplatform]

Sup guys, I have been watching Delta from the sidelines but this last weeks I have noticed the same injustice as most of you did with the character of Mirage.

They keep treating Mirage like this beautiful bird trapped in a cage, or a cage full of mirrors if you get the irony, without any chance to get free or do anything.
Since well before but particularly since previous week and this one, it hurts seeing her around only to suffer and feel bad in one scene or another while none of her issues are ever addressed.

You can tell her thoughts are almost exclusively about Hayate now, which is good I guess for triangle purposes but not for the general life she should have, whose other aspects have become invisible other than him.

Frontier for example did a much better job fleshing out characters. For all the non-love that Ranka got, she went through several stages of development nobody could ever say she was underdeveloped or misrepresented.

It's strange that even though her time-screen has been so small I feel her character deeper than Hayate and Freyja.
Many say her problems are vain or not worth giving attention but I could always felt them much more strongly grounded and relatable for me because who hasn't felt her kind of introversion, other people's expectancy about you, or just general inadequacy in a new job or circle of friends, at least a couple of times in life?

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I will be really upset if they make Mirage be the Zessica of this series.

I remember that series magnus, it was bad.
When Mirage just couldn't help but cry from behind last week or hiding her face behind curtains this episode made me remember it too.
It would really upset me too in they make her just a plot device for suffering or cannon fodder for the triangle.
Unlike Aquarion, I still have some dim hopes that she'll be rewarded for her feelings.

The whole hacking sequence felt kind of weak only for fanservice purposes. I think we already plenty of those and didn't need another semi filler this week.

Mikumo's plot keeps moving very slow but at least is going somewhere.

About Hayate, twice in a row that he's close to pass out from the quartz pendant effects? It was worse this time and it gave me a bad feeling as if it's causing him damage.

[Diluc]

Spoiler for Stuff:

Kawamori pull captain obvious on Hayate dad still that really one freaking plot twist, now i can't await the serious tense in next episode.

Awww....Poor Mirage feel she doesn't has any chance, i only can express feel bad for her.
If only Frontier doesn't adopted two idol love triangle we might would have Mikumo as main girl replaced Mirage instead.

[magnuskn]

Yeah, told you guys last week that Hayate getting faint from the fold quartz emanations meant something. ^^

And good to see that I am not the only one who notices the lacking character development in this series, especially this far into it already.

[Thess]

Spoiler for oh damn:

Damn now I want Bogue x Reina to happen somehow (emotionless girl and super emotional boy) after his reaction to her. Bogue is just too hilarious outside his DIE WALKUREEE mode.

I guess it was 'foreshadowed' in episode 8. Reina went straight to sing to him.

As for Hayate's feeling Freyja's sorrow which leaves him shaken and distraught. Yawn. It's been done before.

[darkplatform]

Originally Posted by Thess

Spoiler for oh damn:

Damn now I want Bogue x Reina to happen somehow (emotionless girl and super emotional boy) after his reaction to her. Bogue is just too hilarious outside his DIE WALKUREEE mode.

I guess it was 'foreshadowed' in episode 8. Reina went straight to sing to him.

As for Hayate's feeling Freyja's sorrow which leaves him shaken and distraught. Yawn. It's been done before.

But you know, in The False Diva it was a unique occasion and different too because he literally had a flashback of her mind.

The Delta jewel trick has been used in overkill already and lately (in my opinion, possibly) in a negative light with the weird blackouts.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by darkplatform

But you know, in The False Diva it was a unique occasion and different too because he literally had a flashback of her mind.

The Delta jewel trick has been used in overkill already and lately (in my opinion, possibly) in a negative light with the weird blackouts.

Or, you know, it's the concept behind Delta: pilot power up by the connection to the singer just as it's been stated in interviews? Which Kawamori sort of already explored in a more subtle way in those movies and Macross Zero. Alto and Shin were powered up in a similar manner, but now Kawamori is exploring this far more deeply.

I don't think it's negative, but actually a challenge for Hayate to become better (ride his own wind, instead of just letting Freyja do everything for him and he simply climbs on her efforts). I think it's gonna be like CriiGV's analysis in the ending: it'll be Hayate needing to catch up with Freyja to be on equal footing because he's gonna left behind power wise (the seiyuus keep repeating "He needs Freyja" or "He's useless without Freyja" so something is definitely going to happen here). Remember there's a "support error" in the ending, and the blue valkyrie (Hayate) 'restarts' and flies until it reaches Freyja and the fold waves are in sync again and system returns to normal (for the final battle?). I think they'll be a problem until Hayate improves and finally isn't just riding on Freyja's singing but measures up.

I'm not even touching the triangle because Mirage is such an unlikeable non character and I like Freyja/Hayate as platonic, I'm stating that Hayate and Freyja bond is pivotal for the series resolution. Specially because

Spoiler for as everyone knows:

Hayate's father nuked Windermere.

[Dash_Hunter]

This is no longer a love triangle (at least not for now), Mirage is just slightly above Chuck and maybe Arad as a character, but it's really evident that she is not a main character as she is not important for the story and her interactions with other characters are small, the only thing she has going for her is that she's a Jenius.

And since we've been discussing about Mirage I thought that these excerpts from some interviews with Kawamori are kind of relevant to the topic.

Spoiler for Interviews:

眉毛インタちょっと抜粋

Δ企画時は三角関係はFでやり尽くしたから外す話も出た。
キャラ増えてどっぷり恋愛描いてる余裕ないと考えた。
スタッフと相談の結果チーム内の仲間としての信頼をメインにして、
その中に恋愛要素が加わるくらいのバランスにした。
ドロドロ描かない代わりにカナメ、メッサー、アラドの年長者や恋愛じゃないがキース、ロイド、ハインツなど の三角関係を描いた

short interview selectiong with "eyebrows" (kawamori?)

When planning delta, he felt he was done with love traingles so the talk of even removing it was up on the table. He thought there wouldn't be room for romance if he added a lot of characters. discussing with staff, the main comrade ship between team mates, and balanced so that romance may come from that. Instead of making it "muddy" they added in an older triangle of arad messer and kaname, as well as the nonromantic one of roid heinz and keith.

The awkward daughter of the Jenius house
If I would make a female pilot then I figured I would make a daughter to the Jenius (Maxmillian Jenius' and Milia Farina Jenius' sixth daughter Miranda's daughter. Mylene Jenius' niece.) She has worries of being part of a Genius household, I thought it'd be interesting if she held unfree thoughts under her superfree grandparents.

My personal theory is that maybe when the sponsors asked Kawamori to include a love triangle Mirage was created for the show just to fill that role, or she was a secondary character that they took and modified for the same reason, they made her a Jenius to create interest for her character but she really has no character arc and her development has been almost nonexistent.

Anyway, another exopsition episode with some fanservice specially from Makina this time, the truth about Hayate's father has been revealed, I don't know why but now I think that maybe Hayate's dad was the person that gave Freyja her music player, a funny scene with the windermereans and also the doubts of the two older Knights are more evident.

That being said, WHERE IS MY VALKYRIE ACTION?! it's been 4 episodes since we had a good battle (the one from ep 15 does't count for me as it was like 30 seconds long and was dumb in how Keith took a whole fleet down), now hopefully next one will be action-packed.

[Thess]

Spoiler for preview:

Civilian dressed Cassim with Freyja and Hayate in the preview! Do I dare to hope for his survival when I was already picturing him dead and gone?

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by Dash_Hunter

WHERE IS MY VALKYRIE ACTION?!

They fed all the bauxite to Makina. And I'm not complaining.