Gundam ZZ Discussion

[kct]

Not exactly. Not everyone that recovered goes to fight again.

[dom33]

@kct that is true.

about chara i allways thought her insanity was due to her newtype powers.

as for haman and her feelings judau, well haman understood her feelings for char which was pure hatred, she didn't understand her feelings for judau(heh newtypes they can fall in love in 3 seconds).

i also wonder what happened to loux.

[yamikage]

Originally Posted by kct

Not exactly. Not everyone that recovered goes to fight again.

Actually, I wasn't really expecting to see him fight. Rather, I was expecting him to give Char a good punch or two. I'm pretty sure Kamille would be pretty mad with Char. He'd never approve of dropping asteroids/colonies on Earth. Remember, he was quite disturbed during that colony drop in Dublin, among the other things that happened in Zeta.

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

The absence in Char's Counterattack that surprised me most was Sayla...

Anyways...I think Double Zeta recovered itself enough in the 2nd half of the series to be an overall decent UC series.

Full Armor Enhanced Double Zeta is still one of my top favorite Gundams (one of the only Full Armor's that worked aside from the non-animated Full Armor 7th Gundam and Full Heavy Armor 7th Gundam) and also one of the most powerful Gundams of all. (not to mention its generator output was only exceeded by very few things aside from Mobile Armors like the Victory 2 and such)

[kct]

That is why most people deem the ZZ an awesome Gundam, not to mention the head cannon (one of the most powerful MS-mounted weapons).

And the mega launcher cannon the Full Armor Enhanced ZZ Gundam test variant, FAZZ, carried around is massive >.> .

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

The High Mega Cannon at 50 kw...definitely one of the most powerful...coupled with a Hyper Mega Cannon in its Full Armor torso....missiles...a 21.2 total double barreled beam rifle...lots of power there.

Gotta give credit to Anaheim Electronics for being able to make such a beast.

[wingdarkness]

Yeah ZZ is really underrated...I mean it just has a menacing presence...Just huge imposing weapons and design...I wonder why no other suits were based on it...

I also really liked this series despite it's goofyness and "Voltron-esqueness"...I wish the final fight was a bit more epic, but overall I enjoyed the series..The reason being is I cared about the characters and geniuinely liked all these kids...Of all the Gundam kids they seem to have the most fun...I mean Usso's and Cammille's group even Amuro and company were some downer kids at times...Usso and company being the worst as I nearly had a heart mur-mur dealing with the depression of his group...ZZ kids are like "Wazzup...Let's have some fun, lets kick some a$$, lets punch Mr. Wong..." The girls were all giddy and cute, with Lu really taking the cake with her aggressive personality...I also was a bit pi$$ed her character didn't get a real conclusion in-terms of her relationship with Judau...I'm gonna miss her as she is perhaps the only female G-pilot I think that could be a main character in a series...

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

The Double Zeta Gundam probably wasn't attempted at again because (most likely) the cost of such a unit would probably be A LOT. The prototype must've costed a bundle and even the attempt at Mass Production was deemed too expensive (even with A LOT of the weaponry, transformation, etc gone).

The only design that really seems somewhat similar is the Victory and the Victory 2 Gundam with their "3-component-docking" into 1 mobile suit, along with generator output and overall power (obviously, speed is MUCH greater though thanks to its Minovsky Flight/Drive System)

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

The absence in Char's Counterattack that surprised me most was Sayla...

I finished ZZ kind of recently and I remember the first ep Sayla appeared in (I think it was the first anyway), she was talking to Bright about Char. They were talking about if he might be alive or not. I think she said something like that if he's alive he might be very dangers. Bright asks her if she'd like to see him again (Char) and she says that she'd rather for him to be dead. It's kinda hard to remember because it's been almost a month since I saw that episode but I'm pretty sure that's what was said basically. This just leads you into CCA I guess.

Also, about the Judau + Char connection. I don't think there is any but this reminded me of a discussion I saw somewhere about how Glemy Toto was supposed to be a heir to Zeon. Which was why he had blonde hair and such and started that rebellion. For some reason it was never used because Tomino got the approval to make the CCA movie so Char took the place of him and was why ZZ was changed. Also, I'm not sure if I have all this right either. So could somebody help me out here?

[Shiryuu]

Originally Posted by Hikikomori

Also, about the Judau + Char connection. I don't think there is any but this reminded me of a discussion I saw somewhere about how Glemy Toto was supposed to be a heir to Zeon. Which was why he had blonde hair and such and started that rebellion. For some reason it was never used because Tomino got the approval to make the CCA movie so Char took the place of him and was why ZZ was changed. Also, I'm not sure if I have all this right either. So could somebody help me out here?

I think you got it the other way around. Char was supposed to be the main villain in ZZ, but then CCA got approved so Glemy got bumped to that position instead.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Shiryuu

I think you got it the other way around. Char was supposed to be the main villain in ZZ, but then CCA got approved so Glemy got bumped to that position instead.

Yeah, I remember reading that now too. Though, for some reason I remember reading what you just told me and what I said. D:!

[Lonely]

what i think of the series...
bad first half... good seoncd half..

and yea ZZ does kickass even though it is bulky..

[Godaiger]

ZZ Gundam has for years been a target of critism by serious Gundam fans, true its not as good as MSG, Zeta or V, however I kinda like it for trying to be different than the other MSG shows.

Contrast to what many Gundam fans believe, Tomino wasn't put in charge the storyline midway of ZZ, he was working since it started, as part of Tomino's tendencies to follow up a tragedy with a comedy, this nominal sequel to Zeta Gundam struck a much lighter, often comical, tone, in contrast to its predecessor's brooding melodrama, which is why they used Anime Ja Nai (It's Not Anime) as the first opening for it reflected the campiness of the first half of the series. The second half of the series does return to a more serious tone while sporting a more somber opening theme song.

A lot of serious Gundam fans hate the main character Jaudu Ashta (mostly in the first half), not only because he was sort of a goofball in the begining but because he wasn't the "Typical" Gundam hero like Amuro Ray or Camile Bidan, come on just because he didn't start out as a tragic character doesn't make him a lousy Gundam character, and a lot of fans agree with me, Jaudu was ranked 20 of the MSG Males Rank in The monthly Gundam power rankings in Gundam Ace in like 2003 or 2004. True he's not as popular as characters like Char, Amuro or Camile but he's still popular and Tomino himself once said he considered Jaudu as the strongest Newtype. I prefer Jaudu over Kira (sorry SEED fans, I kinda like SEED).

Now about the whole Zeta movies rectoning ZZ out of continuity, I don't consider it canon not just because it recton ZZ but because I heard it also retconned Char's Counterattack out of continuity.

[4Tran]

I may hold a minority opinion on this, but I don't really have any problem with the first part of ZZ. The humor may not be for everyone, and I think that its sometimes not conveyed properly, but I don't think that Gundam has to be dark and grim most of the time. I didn't even mind the Moon Moon episodes. The only thing I really disliked were Judau's sidekicks.

My problem is the second half of the show, where I think that the writing completely fell apart. It seemed like the writers couldn't figure out a way for the good guys to win, so they manufactured that rather silly civil war. The characters to come off the worst in ZZ were Bright Noa and Haman Karn. Their actions betrayed more incompetence than their characters warranted, and the show was all the worse for it. In the final tally, I think that ZZ is the worst of the Gundam TV shows.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I may hold a minority opinion on this, but I don't really have any problem with the first part of ZZ. The humor may not be for everyone, and I think that its sometimes not conveyed properly, but I don't think that Gundam has to be dark and grim most of the time. I didn't even mind the Moon Moon episodes. The only thing I really disliked were Judau's sidekicks.

Well, don't worry. You've at least got me on your side for this much. Until Judau's sidekicks. I didn't mind them much either.


And about how the Zeta movies supposedly cancel out Zeta and CCA: while it may not be a complete answer to the problem, I do have an answer for how they could still pull off ZZ for the AEUG side at least, what with Kamille not being semi-braindead. I'll just copy+paste what I said on the MAHQ forums:

I've heard this question asked a lot, due to how the third Zeta movie ends. I'm not sure what they could do for who the bad guys would be without eliminating CCA, but I don't think it would be as hard as some think on the end of the AEUG. To be honest, I haven't actually seen the ending to Z Movie 3, although I have read spoilers. So don't bite my head off if I assume something incorrectly. :P

The Argama (howver people want to spell it, the way people spell this name seems to change with the day on some sites :P ) arrives at Shangri-La just as it did in original ZZ. Yazan is still saved by Judau and co. And they try to steal the Zeta. Kamille, instead of Bright tries to defend the Zeta (basically just replace Bright with Kamille in the defense of the Zeta). Judau still gets the Zeta and beats Yazan.

From there, it would be a bit of swap-in-and-out. In some places, Judau would pilot the Zeta ad Kamille would use the Methus (like when Bright was curious about Judau and let him sneak into the ship in the original series, in others it would be the other way around.

When Bright officially accepts Judau and co. into the Argama's crew, he's made pilot of the Methus. When they get to the La Vie en Rose, Judau still gets the ZZ. Elle still gets the Mark II, and Roux gets a new model MS introduced just for the remake, or heck she could get the Hyakushiki. Having Beecha sit on the sidelines wouldn't be anything big, lol.

The biggest thing if they remake ZZ (aside from who the bad guys are) would be the inclusion of Kamille, of course. They'd have to make new material for a very major portion of the remake. There would be so little old material left, that really it would probably be better just to make the ZZ remake 100% new material. This would also be good for sales too, as the thought of a remake of an old Gundam series with 100% new animation would make the Gundam community drool.

This would also be a good chance to toss out the less-desireable parts of the former half of ZZ. Like Moon Moon.

*waits for the cheers of the readers to die down*

This would be one more thing for the Gundam community to drool over. While I personally didn't have any disgust or discontent over the light-heartedness of the beginning of ZZ, I can understand how and why others would.

This would also mean either a major retelling of the Tigerbaum arc, or the elimination of said arc entirely with the replacement of a differnet setting/scenario.

Of course, there's also the fact that Hirotaka Suzuoki, Bright Noa's VA, has passed away, which will probably be a bump in any plans of a remake of either ZZ or CCA. But they did bring in new VAs for the Zeta movies. Albeit two of them were smaller roles, they did have new VAs for Fa and Four, who were big characters in Zeta.

In the end, imo, if Bandai and Sunrise really want to milk Gundam for all they can, I don't see Hirotaka Suzuoki's passing completely stopping them. They just need to make sure the selection of the new VA doesn't turn into an incident like with the Zeta movies. ^^b

[Obi-Wan]

Toru Okawa would be a good Bright in light of Suzuoki's passing, if they decide to do ZZ compilation films. But I'm sure fans would raise hell over replacing Bright's voice actor, so it probably won't happen.

[RPNS]

I have no problem with the Zeta movies supposedly cancelling out ZZ and CCA.

For one ZZ wasn’t the best Gundam ever (still better then the Kill them all fest that was Victory).

I hope they just remake CCA or get rid of it do to the fact that Amuro and Char had the worst final lines in anime history (And I really want to see Hi-v Gundam animated).

Maybe this is also Tomino’s way of creating a new UC era one that is not as convulsive as the original and may also cancel Victory Gundam.

[Zerowinger]

What happend to this series ? i know it was fansubbed in an ugly sub version long ago by ASS but i havent seen it subbed nor on DVD. anyone know if it and when it will come to DVD? :/

[VegaCrescent]

There's rumors that it's bound for DVD in North America. It's a bit of a fickle situation, since although it worked, Zeta was a risk enough, and that's legendary. Bandai would have to be convinced that ZZ boxsets would sell a certain amount, which they may or may not be comparing the series' relative reputation against Zeta'a.

[Ottocycle]

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan

Toru Okawa would be a good Bright in light of Suzuoki's passing, if they decide to do ZZ compilation films. But I'm sure fans would raise hell over replacing Bright's voice actor, so it probably won't happen.

I second the opinion for them to continue the timeline after the Z movies, and I haven't a problem with Shinji103's way of doing things *drools(like he said too)*

But with the gigantic issue with Bright's voice actor, I believe we've found an answer to that in recent months. IMO Narita Ken (Jeremiah aka Orange-kun from Code Geass) would be up to the job.

Though its not looking to be as profitable as the Z movies..