Mobile Suit Gundam Hathaway's Flash Anime - News & Discussion

[brightman]

Really enjoyed this one, mostly for its production values (visually and audio wise it’s amazing), and because it is based on a classic Tomino story that’s adapted by more competent directors / writers it feels like a very polished classic Gundam story. I tend to agree it feels a little slow but I like the buildup. The only complain I have is spending so much time on a terrible character like Hathaway and making him the POV of the audience which makes it harder to connect with, but that’s a fault of the original novel I guess, and knowing the ending this isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

[Infinite Zenith]

Originally Posted by brightman

The only complain I have is spending so much time on a terrible character like Hathaway and making him the POV of the audience which makes it harder to connect with, but that’s a fault of the original novel I guess, and knowing the ending this isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

It feels like this is going to be a tragedy in the making, something like MacBeth.

I have noticed that one of our number is his best to try and lecture the rest of us again on morality. For his benefit, I present what a useful and well-reasoned analysis looks like.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by brightman

The only complain I have is spending so much time on a terrible character like Hathaway and making him the POV of the audience which makes it harder to connect with, but that’s a fault of the original novel I guess, and knowing the ending this isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

To be fair, the original novel followed the Beltorchika's Children timeline where Hathaway was a lot better character there. Intead of killing the innocent Chan thanks to his libido talking, he killed Quess and ended her terror in the Alpha Azieru. That made the ending of the novel a lot more tragic.

Btw, it's interesting to see Gundam newcomers' reaction on HF:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/OX2omR0driM

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Frontier]

That CG Mobile Suit intro reminded me of those ending credit scenes of Superhero movies. I didn't realize part of it was recapping Char's Counterattack before I saw Nu Gundam fighting the Alpha Azieru .

To be honest Hathaway going terrorist and trying to usurp the Federation to carry out the ideals Quess jumped ship for as a means of becoming the man he thinks she'd be interested in...is very Hathaway. Kensho Ono does well with emotional subtle yet complicated characters, and I think that fit Hathaway here. He realizes that his terrorism isn't necessarily the best way to go about it, and the average joe on Earth doesn't want to get dragged into space any more than the space colonists want to be held at the whim of the Earth, but it's all Hathaway can think to do .

Kenneth seems like a decent guy, honestly, even if he's on the opposing side of our protagonist. Compared to Junichi Suwabe's other roles he's pretty refreshingly earnest and kind of sweet. He seems like someone driven by his instincts, for better or for worse, but isn't necesarilly sincere about them, but he's not a malicious or bad person. Really the only evil act he committed in the film was torturing Gawman, a prisoner, and using him as a hostage .

Gigi is absolutely gorgeous. Like, every part of her is absolutely alluring and perfect, right down to being voiced by Reina Ueda. She comes off as this free-spirited, aloof, young woman with her own thoughts about the world but who seems passionate partially because of how unfulfilling her life is. You're never sure quite what she's thinking, and that seems to also play into her romantic interests as she flirts with both Hathaway and Kenneth while at the same time keeping them both at a distance. But as much as she involves herself with dangerous men, she's not prepared for witnessing killing and destruction .

Is Gigi a Newtype? It seemed like she psychically connected with Hathaway for a second there .

Hathaway comes off all unassuming and nice until suddenly he's John Wick with a gun in his hand .

So the official record is that Hathaway was a "hero" for stealing a Mobile Suit and managing to kill an enemy in his first sortie which is why he wasn't punished too severely for it...but, like, what was the report of Chan's death? Did Hathaway not tell anyone what actually happened? Did he go down as the one who took the Alpha Azieru out? I forget if he killed a Neo-Zeon grunt during the battle. Y'know, kind of bothers me that Hathaway is still obsessed with Quess but doesn't seem to have PTSD over killing Chan .

At least Hathaway has finally realized that becoming enamored with, shall we say..."special" girls never ends well. Not that it stops him from still thinking about Quess .

Gigi looks good in absolutely anything, be it a dress, pantsuit, bikini (with her top off ), or even sweats and a t-shirt from a secondhand Federation store .

Gigi sleeps in the nude because of course she does .

Hathaway and Gigi run into a seemingly random couple involved in an affair? Like, it seems like they were waking up naked and trying not to get caught and she came right out of the shower...I dunno, it had no bearing on the plot but they paid attention to it .

Mafty's people use units that look more like they'd fit with Zeon. I guess if Mafty is really carrying on Char's will...

The protagonist doesn't actually get into a Gundam until the climax, so instead we get to meet the antagonist Gundam firsthand when the Penelope turns up. Seeing Hathaway and Gigi have to survive during a Mobile Suit battle was pretty refreshing. Honestly seemed like the Federation were causing more collateral damage than Mafty's people were .

I thought Kenneth would end up being the classic Gundam rival for Hathaway and pilot the Penelope, but instead it's a guy named Lane Aim (sounds like Lame Aim). Hathaway compares Lane to what he used to be like, so I guess that's supposed to factor into their rivalry? Although Kenneth is pretty critical of Lane's piloting and Lane didn't stand a chance against Hathaway in their fight at the end, so maybe Kenneth will take over .

Mafty's crew all turn up at the end and we get pretty casual introductions to them. I guess the second film will possibly go more into their personalities, characters, and motivations because they seem like an interesting bunch just from a design standpoint and what little we see. Although I know there's only so much a movie can develop such a large group, and the core story is obviously centered around Hathaway, Gigi, and Kenneth .

Well, Hathaway was right that Gigi wasn't going to intentionally give him away and that Kenneth would figure it out...all he needed was to hear her say she wasn't Hathway's Goddess of Luck after Kenneth brought up what soldiers believe in to understand that, to her, Hathaway came off like a soldier. Like, it was so subtle probably anyone else would've missed it, but Kenneth is perceptive .

I'm honestly kind of surprised Kenneth didn't arrest Gigi when he clued in that she knew or had an inkling that Hathaway was Mafty. Well, okay, maybe he didn't have any hard evidence and was just assuming she had really good instincts to be able to tell and that's no proof that she knew for sure he was Mafty...and maybe he was thinking a little with his pants. But I guess knowing there's a connection between her and Hathaway/Mafty is why he was partially keen Gigi was sticking around to be in the middle of Kenneth and Hathaway's battle .

So Gigi is a...companion to a baron, and that's where she gets all her money from? I mean, the implication is she's basically his mistress, although I'm not sure if their relationship is that crass, but it feels like there's a lot of ambiguity there, especially with how old he is .

The one thing Amuro tells Hathaway is death doesn't come when you're prepared for it, basically warning him that he can't decide his own death...

The Xi Gundam and Penelope are honestly giving me Zeta/ZZ vibes, although the Penelope feels more like a Gundam fused with a dragon. Actually, why call it Penelope though? All in all, not my favorite Gundam designs but that might be because we don't really get a good look at them during those night fights .

I was wondering which of the girls in the organization were into Hathaway and then Kelia turns up and...yeah, she totally wants to get into his pants. Even Hathaway gets a little flustered around her. Oh, and Saori Hayami once again returns to Gundam, and time will tell if she's voicing yet another Best Girl (although she has stiff competition with Gigi) .

[Kanon]

Finally got to watch it. I liked it, but they really didn't pack much into this movie. All of it was just build up.

Originally Posted by Frontier

Kenneth seems like a decent guy, honestly, even if he's on the opposing side of our protagonist. Compared to Junichi Suwabe's other roles he's pretty refreshingly earnest and kind of sweet. He seems like someone driven by his instincts, for better or for worse, but isn't necesarilly sincere about them, but he's not a malicious or bad person. Really the only evil act he committed in the film was torturing Gawman, a prisoner, and using him as a hostage .

I liked him at first, but as the movie went on, he came across as more and more of an asshole, seeing Gigi as just a trophy, torturing prisoners, and not really caring about his men making the life of civilians hell.

The highlight of the movie, other than the gorgeous visuals, was probably Gigi. She's the kind of woman (girl? At some point someone mentions she looks underage) that is fascinating and incredibly seductive... as well as dangerous. She's the kind of character I love to watch, but if I ever met a girl like her I'd run away as far as I could. Oh, and there is no doubt she's fucking that old count, she pretty much spelled it to Kenneth. And this is Tomino, he doesn't shy away from stuff like that.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Btw, since the English title for this one is Gundam: Hathaway, what will the next movie's title be? Gundam: Gigi/Kenneth? Gundam: Hathaway 2?

Originally Posted by Kanon

The highlight of the movie, other than the gorgeous visuals, was probably Gigi. She's the kind of woman (girl? At some point someone mentions she looks underage) that is fascinating and incredibly seductive... as well as dangerous.

She's 19 years old FWIW.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I liked him at first, but as the movie went on, he came across as more and more of an asshole, seeing Gigi as just a trophy, torturing prisoners, and not really caring about his men making the life of civilians hell.

Oh yeah, he was criticizing Lane for his handling of Penelope and not for all the civilian casualties. Admittedly I was probably distracted by him riding a horse into a battlefield .

Yeah, the torturing prisoners thing was pretty bad, especially using them as a hostage. Do we really want people to think the Titans are back ?

Even Gigi could tell his feelings weren't really sincere or serious, he's just flippant and sees her on a surface level. Like she was utterly bored by him at the beginning and only starts throwing herself at him to make Hathaway jealous.

The highlight of the movie, other than the gorgeous visuals, was probably Gigi. She's the kind of woman (girl? At some point someone mentions she looks underage) that is fascinating and incredibly seductive... as well as dangerous. She's the kind of character I love to watch, but if I ever met a girl like her I'd run away as far as I could. Oh, and there is no doubt she's fucking that old count, she pretty much spelled it to Kenneth. And this is Tomino, he doesn't shy away from stuff like that.

I don't think she's personally dangerous. She's seductive, beautiful, intelligent, rich, might be able to see through lies because she's a Newtype, and might side with the ideals of a terrorist group (if not their methods), but when she freaks out at people dying in front of her and from all the destruction, she seems rather innocent. Especially compared to, say, Quess whom Hathaway projects on her.

That being said, Hathaway's burgeoning infatuation (or something to that effect) with her is already causing him more trouble than it's worth. And she's sticking around to be in the middle of a war between Hathaway and Kenneth, which I don't see ending well for anyone...

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Btw, since the English title for this one is Gundam: Hathaway, what will the next movie's title be? Gundam: Gigi/Kenneth? Gundam: Hathaway 2?

Gundam: Hathaway Part Two ?

She's 19 years old FWIW.

How old is Hathaway? I can't think he's much older. Although Kenneth kind of seems like he might be older than both .

[Tactics]

I personally like Kenneth, he managed to be my favorite character for this series.

I love how he reeks of confidence from being "smart through experience" since his introduction, very refreshing compare to Suwabe usual roles of "smart because he is smart" character. We also rarely have this kind of casual smooth talker within Gundam franchise so its definitely a treat.



He treated Gigi like trophy but not without reason. As he said, battlefield can be frustrating so every soldier would like a "reward"; that's a good way to motivate oneself. Of course, as time goes he also noticed that he managed to provoke both Hathaway and Gigi by acting like that so he keep rolling with it considering they were on his suspect list in regards to Mafty activities.

I don't think its fair to blame him for casualties on Davao because casualties is inevitable since the attack launched (seriously, expecting no casualties from 40 floors building that get shot by mobile suits rifle?). He scolding Lane is correct move as well with how Lane's pride as pilot of Penelope taking control over minimizing damage within one movie; rare kind of well-written secondary lead in Gundam, I'd say. Using chair for interrogation is pretty minor damage in comparison to "burn a city except our boss because we're going to space".



Aside that I found it intriguing they didn't try to put Hathaway on good light.

Back then in Code Geass, Lelouch got all the justification about 'terrorism for greater good' while Suzaku treated with 'government is bad and there's no cure for it'.
Here Kenneth made it clear that 'sure, government is corrupt but there's always competent person like me and your dad (Bright)' compare to Hathaway who easily lose an argument against taxi driver and being buddy to everyone on Mafty base as if implying no real leadership within the organization, just band of youths being reckless.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Frontier

Even Gigi could tell his feelings weren't really sincere or serious, he's just flippant and sees her on a surface level. Like she was utterly bored by him at the beginning and only starts throwing herself at him to make Hathaway jealous.

I don't think she's personally dangerous. She's seductive, beautiful, intelligent, rich, might be able to see through lies because she's a Newtype, and might side with the ideals of a terrorist group (if not their methods), but when she freaks out at people dying in front of her and from all the destruction, she seems rather innocent. Especially compared to, say, Quess whom Hathaway projects on her.

That being said, Hathaway's burgeoning infatuation (or something to that effect) with her is already causing him more trouble than it's worth. And she's sticking around to be in the middle of a war between Hathaway and Kenneth, which I don't see ending well for anyone...

She's definitely better than Quess, but then again, I think it's hard to do worse. I stick with what I said. She's the kind of woman that is nothing but trouble. That doesn't necessarily mean she's a bad person, but Hathaway was correct to get away from her. Of course, we all know he's going to come back to her.

[ars89]

were the Hunters that Hathaway saw while out on his walk also under Kenneth's command or are the separate?

[Router25]

Originally Posted by Frontier

How old is Hathaway? I can't think he's much older. Although Kenneth kind of seems like he might be older than both .

Hathaway's 25 years old. There's no mention of Kenneth's age in the wiki.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Aside that I found it intriguing they didn't try to put Hathaway on good light.

Back then in Code Geass, Lelouch got all the justification about 'terrorism for greater good' while Suzaku treated with 'government is bad and there's no cure for it'.
Here Kenneth made it clear that 'sure, government is corrupt but there's always competent person like me and your dad (Bright)' compare to Hathaway who easily lose an argument against taxi driver and being buddy to everyone on Mafty base as if implying no real leadership within the organization, just band of youths being reckless.

Even Gigi, who came off as a Mafty sympathizer, told him that she didn't agree with his methods and that they were the wrong way to go about them.

And then there's where Hathaway almost outright says he's doing this to try and be more like the kind of guy Quess was into (Char), and that...probably isn't going to end well .

Originally Posted by ars89

were the Hunters that Hathaway saw while out on his walk also under Kenneth's command or are the separate?

I think they're an arm of the Federation (and basically like immigration officials in the US?) but not directly under Kenneth.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

You know, after watching this movie for the 3rd time in the best home-video format possible (so far), I'm actually really glad that Tomino didn't direct it. There's just so much natural facial expressions, facial shots, gestures and little details in this movie that would've lost in Tomino's direction. If Tomino were to direct, we would've gotten some over-the-top body language instead (see G-Reco) .

There are people out there who are questioning the choice of the night setting for both MS battles. I'd say they both made sense & logically sound in-universe even if the latter battle is not easy for the eyes. The first battle in Davao functioned as a diversion so that Hathaway can easily sneak out at night. The second battle in the Halmahera's airspace also happened at night because it was originally a secret Gundam retrieval mission. So of course they did it using the cover of the night (too bad that it didn't help much, but at least they still got the Gundam, with Gawman as a bonus ). The best BD-rip that I have actually made the battle between Xi & Penelope looks clearer.

Originally Posted by Kanon

I liked him at first, but as the movie went on, he came across as more and more of an asshole, seeing Gigi as just a trophy, torturing prisoners, and not really caring about his men making the life of civilians hell.

Clearly he's not an ultimate good guy, but I still like his character. There's a brutal honesty to him. He fancied Gigi and wanted to bang her & take good care of her, so he just said so. He beat the shit outta Gawman to get information makes perfect sense since Mafty is a terrorist organization and they're not in a war (it harkens back to the "America does not negotiate with terrorists"-thing). And him not being too much concerned about all the civillians lives lost during the terrorist attack is actually quite natural. I mean, we have a terrorist with MSs attacking buildings in the middle of a city without warning. Of course there will be citizens killed when the Feds are battling the Mafty MSs. And Kenneth telling Lane to "handle his mech" better is actually an indirect concern for public safety coz someone who can't handle his MS well will be a threat to the surrounding people (sometimes more than a seasoned terrorist).

Originally Posted by Tactics

...compare to Hathaway who easily lose an argument against taxi driver...

It's not as much as "lose" but the two were talking about different goals. Hathaway was talking about the welfare of the planet going forward a thousand years or so while the taxi driver was talking about his everyday life. Furthermore, the driver actually likes it when Mafty is killing off corrupt Feddie officials. He only disagreed with migrating to space (most likely due to the questionable future of living as a spacenoid based on his argument).

It's funny how Mafty & the Feds almost want the same basic thing: cleaning up Earth from the overgrown human population. But Feddie's goal is a lot more selfish, forceful & capitalistic while Mafty supposedly do not discriminate when it comes to people who must get out of Earth (pretty much everyone must go). At least Mafty don't plan to drop an asteroid on Earth (so far).

Originally Posted by ars89

were the Hunters that Hathaway saw while out on his walk also under Kenneth's command or are the separate?

Originally Posted by Frontier

I think they're an arm of the Federation (and basically like immigration officials in the US?) but not directly under Kenneth.

According to Gundam Unicorn, the "Manhunter unit" (seen in CCA & HF) is supposed to be ECOAS or part of ECOAS. In space, their job is to mop up the remnants of Zeon/Neo-Zeon (we saw how ruthless they were in Unicorn episode 1 when they came to Vist Manor, guns blazing). On Earth, their job is to search & deport "Illegal" people to space and they're infamously more known as "Manhunter" (we saw them in CCA very early on wearing black uniforms & beating Quess' hippy friends). They're even more ruthless than their space ECOAS division. In Beltorchika's Children, they outright shot Quess' friends dead with no mercy.

Originally Posted by Frontier

Even Gigi, who came off as a Mafty sympathizer, told him that she didn't agree with his methods and that they were the wrong way to go about them.

To be fair, there is no "right way" when it comes to usurping an organization as corrupt and as powerful as the EF. Any non-violent revolution would've been swept under the rug. See Unicorn's reveal of the UC Charter. As Narrative puts it, it caused tons of protests everywhere but they're not enough to overthrow the EF. There's no fixing such government. So yeah, anyone who wants to eliminate the EF must do so with force. And such force will of course result in innocent/civilian casualties like many other violent revolutions before it.

As a first in a planned trilogy, I'd say the movie established the characters & plot well. We saw Hathaway being conflicted about what his organization has been doing through his interactions with the common people and worried about the safety of his Mafty Erin identity being discovered by the Feds through Gigi at first. But after going through some events, he finally gained more confidence and decided to "fuck it" and back into his "Mafty"-mode. He knew that Kenneth will finally figured out his identity no matter whether or not Gigi outright tells him. So he severed his ties with Gigi and went back to Mafty before all that happens and he was right to do it. We also saw Kenneth established as a character. Every dialogue & act that he's done tells us more about him. He looked like a suave smoothtalker at first but as the movie went on, we also saw how much of a bitter realist he is aside from him being a dedicated Feddie officer. The more time we spent on him the more we know about him, and that's a good characterization showcase. And Gigi is established as such an enigmatic girl until we learned her background as a mistress of an old rich guy who was just on a trip to get her new apartment in Hong Kong (not gonna say spoilery stuffs), and she bounced off between Kenneth & Hathaway pretty well and a pretty good plot device to set almost all the events in this movie.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

There are people out there who are questioning the choice of the night setting for both MS battles. I'd say they both made sense & logically sound in-universe even if the latter battle is not easy for the eyes. The first battle in Davao functioned as a diversion so that Hathaway can easily sneak out at night. The second battle in the Halmahera's airspace also happened at night because it was originally a secret Gundam retrieval mission. So of course they did it using the cover of the night (too bad that it didn't help much, but at least they still got the Gundam, with Gawman as a bonus ). The best BD-rip that I have actually made the battle between Xi & Penelope looks clearer.

That's good to know that there's a higher quality version of that fight that actually shows off the Gundam's better .

Clearly he's not an ultimate good guy, but I still like his character. There's a brutal honesty to him. He fancied Gigi and wanted to bang her & take good care of her, so he just said so. He beat the shit outta Gawman to get information makes perfect sense since Mafty is a terrorist organization and they're not in a war (it harkens back to the "America does not negotiate with terrorists"-thing). And him not being too much concerned about all the civillians lives lost during the terrorist attack is actually quite natural. I mean, we have a terrorist with MSs attacking buildings in the middle of a city without warning. Of course there will be citizens killed when the Feds are battling the Mafty MSs. And Kenneth telling Lane to "handle his mech" better is actually an indirect concern for public safety coz someone who can't handle his MS well will be a threat to the surrounding people (sometimes more than a seasoned terrorist).

Well, I don't think enhanced interrogation tactics (or outright hostage usage) is all that commendable, and I think it was deliberate that they showed the Federation forces going above what would be considered acceptable casualties in a war situation, at least in my opinion. I also don't think his criticism of Lane involved that at all, but I guess it could have.

It's not as much as "lose" but the two were talking about different goals. Hathaway was talking about the welfare of the planet going forward a thousand years or so while the taxi driver was talking about his everyday life. Furthermore, the driver actually likes it when Mafty is killing off corrupt Feddie officials. He only disagreed with migrating to space (most likely due to the questionable future of living as a spacenoid based on his argument).

It's funny how Mafty & the Feds almost want the same basic thing: cleaning up Earth from the overgrown human population. But Feddie's goal is a lot more selfish, forceful & capitalistic while Mafty supposedly do not discriminate when it comes to people who must get out of Earth (pretty much everyone must go). At least Mafty don't plan to drop an asteroid on Earth (so far).

It's complicated reaching the common people .

To be fair, there is no "right way" when it comes to usurping an organization as corrupt and as powerful as the EF. Any non-violent revolution would've been swept under the rug. See Unicorn's reveal of the UC Charter. As Narrative puts it, it caused tons of protests everywhere but they're not enough to overthrow the EF. There's no fixing such government. So yeah, anyone who wants to eliminate the EF must do so with force. And such force will of course result in innocent/civilian casualties like many other violent revolutions before it.

Well, accepting that sometimes force is required to make a positive change (which is pretty common in this franchise), I don't think they're going to really condone terrorism even if there will probably be plenty of ambiguity as to the righteousness of Mafty and what Hathaway is doing...and probably why he's doing it.

Oh man, he really is the next Char .

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Frontier

Well, I don't think enhanced interrogation tactics (or outright hostage usage) is all that commendable,

I never said what Kenneth did during the interogation is commendable. Still, it makes sense and practical. Like I said, this is not a formal war like during the OYW & Neo-Zeon War. There is no war rules. Mafty is a terrorist organization to the EF, just like Al Qaeda & ISIS are to the world. And it is a fact that Mafty drew first blood by shooting the building and killing innocents alongside the EF officials in Davao. Based on the innocent lives that Gawman (unintentionally) took, he might as well forfeit his life when he got captured by the EF coz terrorist do not get as many convenient rights as war prisoners unless they cooperate. Unlike war prisoners, terrorist are just straight up murderers. Captured terorrists (who have killed innocents) who do not cooperate do not get much mercy.

Let's change the perspective a bit. Imagine if Hathaway was Bin Laden, and you got one of his terrorist boys in custody. If he doesn't cooperate, roughing him up until he spill some info is pretty much standard procedure for dealing with such terrorist. Using him as a hostage in order to lure/catch/kill Bin Laden sounds like a great idea too. Same thing with Hathaway & Gawman's situation.

Originally Posted by Frontier

and I think it was deliberate that they showed the Federation forces going above what would be considered acceptable casualties in a war situation, at least in my opinion.

The simple fact is: it was Mafty's main fault that so many civilians died during the Davao raid. Mafty was targeting the building fully aware that it would result in civilians casulties. Heck, Gawman himself said so. Mafty brought the battle in the middle of the city while the EF forces can only respond in kind.

If Mafty is doing what a terrorist do, they need to prepare themselves to be treated as such terrorist. Even Gawman was prepared for the consequences when he got captured. He was lucky that Lane Aim had too much pride in him and let Gawman go (probably naively so).

Originally Posted by Frontier

I also don't think his criticism of Lane involved that at all, but I guess it could have.

Maybe, maybe not. But a good MS pilot is always preferrable than a bad one. Hopefully he'll cause less collateral damage.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I never said what Kenneth did during the interogation is commendable. Still, it makes sense and practical. Like I said, this is not a formal war like during the OYW & Neo-Zeon War. There is no war rules. Mafty is a terrorist organization to the EF, just like Al Qaeda & ISIS are to the world. And it is a fact that Mafty drew first blood by shooting the building and killing innocents alongside the EF officials in Davao. Based on the innocent lives that Gawman (unintentionally) took, he might as well forfeit his life when he got captured by the EF coz terrorist do not get as many convenient rights as war prisoners unless they cooperate. Unlike war prisoners, terrorist are just straight up murderers. Captured terorrists (who have killed innocents) who do not cooperate do not get much mercy.

Let's change the perspective a bit. Imagine if Hathaway was Bin Laden, and you got one of his terrorist boys in custody. If he doesn't cooperate, roughing him up until he spill some info is pretty much standard procedure for dealing with such terrorist. Using him as a hostage in order to lure/catch/kill Bin Laden sounds like a great idea too. Same thing with Hathaway & Gawman's situation.

Hasn't the effectiveness of such interrogation tactics been debunked?

The simple fact is: it was Mafty's main fault that so many civilians died during the Davao raid. Mafty was targeting the building fully aware that it would result in civilians casulties. Heck, Gawman himself said so. Mafty brought the battle in the middle of the city while the EF forces can only respond in kind.

If Mafty is doing what a terrorist do, they need to prepare themselves to be treated as such terrorist. Even Gawman was prepared for the consequences when he got captured. He was lucky that Lane Aim had too much pride in him and let Gawman go (probably naively so).

And the civilians are always caught in the middle...

[LG-MAX 2.o]

Gundam: Hathaway Film Sells Over 90,000 Blu-ray Discs Just in Theaters : https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...eaters/.174933

[Tactics]

Debunked? Not really, just change of priority AFAIK as physical abuse became alternative to psychological abuse.
So actually there's nothing wrong with physical abuse to Gawman because you can interpret it under two understandings:

First, its following source material that way before psychological abuse became more reliable.
Second, investigation to Gawman is considered impractical by Kenneth for many reasons (e.g. incomplete information; efforts spent to made it effective likely not worth it, time constraint) so Kenneth is quick to resort to physical abuse; if we going to nitpick about moral standing, its just like what Obelisk said, Gawman is a terrorist and the one who made first move, so whatever Kenneth do is justified to prevent future casualties.

If Kenneth did it for fun, feel free to accuse him but you can see he's a responsible person, committed on finding Mafty ASAP as soon as he's in uniform, understand value of prisoner and happy to know he found bread crumbs to Mafty on Hathaway and Gigi. Still better than, "You can shot the hotel, its all good because politicians there will die; of course, as long Hathaway is not dead".

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

It's not as much as "lose" but the two were talking about different goals. Hathaway was talking about the welfare of the planet going forward a thousand years or so while the taxi driver was talking about his everyday life. Furthermore, the driver actually likes it when Mafty is killing off corrupt Feddie officials. He only disagreed with migrating to space (most likely due to the questionable future of living as a spacenoid based on his argument).

Hathaway is so eager about continuing with, "Mafty is right after all!" when the driver said he's okay with Mafty killing corrupt officials but when the driver made point about "What's wrong living on earth; the wrong part is just the officials, living on earth is not that bad either" he pretty much unable to continue the conversation and sulk with brief moment of display showing the "Is Mafty the next Char Aznable".

For me that as good as Hathaway lose an argument in terms of scene delivery, especially when its done after how he's opt to "There's no other way, government is wrong" treatment to Gigi when she told him how she disagree with Mafty method; my favorite scene in this movie as rarely we saw touch of idealist (going to space) vs. realism (I'm old, have job, have family and friend here, the atmosphere is nice, why the hell someone like me need to go to space? Sounds like pain) which often ignored when it comes to this kind of talk.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Hathaway is so eager about continuing with, "Mafty is right after all!" when the driver said he's okay with Mafty killing corrupt officials but when the driver made point about "What's wrong living on earth; the wrong part is just the officials, living on earth is not that bad either" he pretty much unable to continue the conversation and sulk with brief moment of display showing the "Is Mafty the next Char Aznable".

For me that as good as Hathaway lose an argument in terms of scene delivery, especially when its done after how he's opt to "There's no other way, government is wrong" treatment to Gigi when she told him how she disagree with Mafty method; my favorite scene in this movie as rarely we saw touch of idealist (going to space) vs. realism (I'm old, have job, have family and friend here, the atmosphere is nice, why the hell someone like me need to go to space? Sounds like pain) which often ignored when it comes to this kind of talk.

I think Hathaway stopped arguing simply because he thought it won't go anywhere coz, like I said, they had different goals in their minds. And if we see the future UC up to Victory, we all know that Hathaway (and Char) was right that humanity will ruin the planet the longer they live on Earth.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Debunked? Not really, just change of priority AFAIK as physical abuse became alternative to psychological abuse.
So actually there's nothing wrong with physical abuse to Gawman because you can interpret it under two understandings:

First, its following source material that way before psychological abuse became more reliable.
Second, investigation to Gawman is considered impractical by Kenneth for many reasons (e.g. incomplete information; efforts spent to made it effective likely not worth it, time constraint) so Kenneth is quick to resort to physical abuse; if we going to nitpick about moral standing, its just like what Obelisk said, Gawman is a terrorist and the one who made first move, so whatever Kenneth do is justified to prevent future casualties.

If Kenneth did it for fun, feel free to accuse him but you can see he's a responsible person, committed on finding Mafty ASAP as soon as he's in uniform, understand value of prisoner and happy to know he found bread crumbs to Mafty on Hathaway and Gigi. Still better than, "You can shot the hotel, its all good because politicians there will die; of course, as long Hathaway is not dead".

Torture is complicated .