Macross Delta the Movie 2: Absolute LIVE!!!!!! Discussion Thread

[Dragonria]

new trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4_5e_nYST4

mirror:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/lqyw5S1AQEY

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[Dash_Hunter]

Originally Posted by Dragonria

new trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4_5e_nYST4

mirror:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/lqyw5S1AQEY

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New drones, new Booster Packs, new Enemy and a completely new unit since there's a Delta 6 in the squadron now. My expectations are low but as long as the music is good an there's a good battle like Messer vs. Keith or the Last Battle of the first movie I'll give it a watch whenever it's available.

[Yu Ominae]

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...-debut/.174785

New updates on when the movie's coming out.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Dragonria

new trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4_5e_nYST4

mirror:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/lqyw5S1AQEY

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This judgment I'm about to give is subject to change upon the official release so take all of this with a grain of salt:

My initial reaction for the trailer was "what the hell is the music? It's god awful." Then I read comments for the trailer on YouTube and slowly realization crept in. Kawamori has always liked to parody older Macross' in his newer series if only for laughs or satire; however, this time it feels like he's crying for help.

The consensus on YouTube appears to be the person singing in the trailer is an artificial idol and the goal of the movie (in their eyes) is likely to destroy this "fake" idol. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Did anyone ask for a modern version of Plus? I know I didn't. If I had wanted to watch Plus again, I would simply watch Plus. This goes beyond how Frontier parodied Zero for an episode while in the movie it got a passing mention.

Considering it's been announced since 2018 I believe (initial announcement), and even now it's only dropping what amounts to teaser trailers tells me this production is not the greatest. And on top of that, Frontier is reviving in a short film. At this point, why bother chasing Delta if all he wants to do is revive Frontier? Because it's not like the recap movie fixed issues people had with the TV series version. And it's been over 5 years since the TV series ended and 3 since the last movie; people don't really care anymore. It's really kind of sad.

The odds are though: I'll likely still watch it. Because at this point it's like going through the final episodes of Guilty Crown and seeing how the train is gonna crash. My expectations are really low now. The only thing I can hope is that it has good animation. Given how little all the teasers have shown so far (and how poorly composited it is), I don't have my hopes high for that either. Then again, Frontier's final trailer before its second movie had bad animation and limited detailed backgrounds which were finalized for the official release so maybe that's something that'll be fixed and shouldn't be judged too harshly but it's worth being mentioned regardless considering how long the project's been "in production" overall.

As I said, take all of this with a grain of salt; it's subject to change as new info comes out but as it is now, those are my impressions of the movie.

[Tak]

You just had to remind me of Guilty Crown, didn't you. Who ever did the last episode of that series needs to be shot... metaphorically speaking... of course...

I will watch the movie too, even with my misgivings for the TV series. Though I expect something proper for Mirage as befitting someone from the Jenius line.

- Tak

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Tak

You just had to remind me of Guilty Crown, didn't you. Who ever did the last episode of that series needs to be shot... metaphorically speaking... of course...

- Tak

Not even the last episode itself, to be honest. I believe episode 20 was like the super big flashback episode explaining like 95% of the plot for the entire anime all at once with like no shame because what the hell at that point. And if episode 15 and 18 had not existed, it likely would've gone on alright but sadly those episodes existed so it turned into a slow moving car crash which resulted in outrage online. And I specifically remember thinking at the time, "Isn't this also directed by Yoshino who helped in directing Frontier? So I guess everyone is probably glad now that Frontier ended like it did even if areas of it did drop the ball." Because I remember now how Guilty Crown and Frontier both have a similar "flashback" type episode wherein 95% of the plot is explained. Frontier had episode 23, after all. And now I realize no Macross TV series prior really was like "let's sit everyone down for a full episode and explain the plot." Then Delta had a similar episode and I'm kind of like "of all the things Kawamori could learn from his time working with Yoshino and this had to be it..."

In Delta, however, it's more forgivable if you consider people in Japan watch this weekly in between stuff in real life and likely they don't remember everything about the plot by the time the second half is in motion, especially because there's so many characters.

On topic, I don't have a lot of hopes for the movie; but maybe that comes from it being "in production" for so long. After all, in 2016, this movie and the recap movie were announced literally at the same time; only this movie had no title at the time. So it's been "in production" (meaning draft scripts, voice recording, and animation) since at least late 2017 when production on the recap movie ended. That's... a long time to sit on something... Makes me wonder how many drafts Kawamori had to pitch before this got greenlit.

[Tak]

To be fair, Covid was a thing until recently. Actually, scratch that, it is still very much a thing. Delta movie 2 wasn't even the only victim to this pandemic. Many big Japanese movies were slated to be released in 2020, only to face a grinding halt when Covid decided to pay a visit.

I am not even sure if the current Delta movie 2 is the one we were supposed to see from a couple years back, or one that was recently in production.

- Tak

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Tak

To be fair, Covid was a thing until recently. Actually, scratch that, it is still very much a thing. Delta movie 2 wasn't even the only victim to this pandemic. Many big Japanese movies were slated to be released in 2020, only to face a grinding halt when Covid decided to pay a visit.

I am not even sure if the current Delta movie 2 is the one we were supposed to see from a couple years back, or one that was recently in production.

- Tak

Actually, it got delayed once before the pandemic even was a thing. Right before the Live announcement back in 2018 I think it was, they announced it and slated it for the next year; it then got delayed to 2020. Then it got delayed again because of the pandemic. And now it's supposedly coming out Fall of this year. So it's not really the pandemic's full fault for the skepticism I have for the quality of this movie. The initial delay has me anxious over the film in general. It's been in production for a long time, as I said before, from at least the end of 2017 or early 2018. So the fact all we've seen is teaser trailers (for 2 years!) less than one minute in length each doesn't give me a lot of hope. It also doesn't help that in the new teaser there is no new voice overs...

Look, it's not to be a downer; it's just observation. I really do hope the movie proves all of my initial feelings wrong. But it's just... you know when you get those times where the more you see of something, the more your gut feeling tells you to wait for the other shoe to drop? I'm experiencing it now.

[Tak]

Well, as for me, I am not expecting a downer (or upper), I am just patiently waiting.

At the end, I'd probably be content with what I can get. My 'fervor' (if you can even call it that) for Delta is nowhere, and I mean not even an iota to where I was with Frontier.

So... meh...

- Tak

[HirouKeimou]

The "fervor" dying for Delta is likely because it's been so long. Frontier announced its movies not long after the TV series aired. Then those movies released roughly 2 years apart, with very little wait time to the movies compared to Delta. So the hype was still there. I don't know about Japan, but the hype abroad has pretty much died off. If I remember, I occasionally check every 3 months or so for any new info. It's hard to stay invested in something that's constantly on delay, I guess.

[Tak]

It's simpler than that. I just don't like Delta that much.

With Frontier, I was emotionally and financially invested in it. With Delta, not quite...

- Tak

[magnuskn]

Yeah, same here. Frontier is still my favorite anime show of all time. Delta... was not. It was a gigantic let-down as the successor series to Frontier.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Yeah, same here. Frontier is still my favorite anime show of all time. Delta... was not. It was a gigantic let-down as the successor series to Frontier.

Not gonna lie, Delta had us on the first half. Then the rest happened.

After how the show ended I really didn't have much in the way of Hype going into the movies. Movie 1 was pretty decent though so I'm looking forward to the next one but all hype I had was completely gone after the middle of the TV season.

[HirouKeimou]

I did not have really any "hype" going into the movies (especially after the first one). Most of my hopes (not hype) revolved around wondering if the first movie would do like Frontier and fix things from the TV series people didn't like (re: episode 8 and 10 of Frontier). Sadly, Delta did a reverse Frontier: The first movie chose to focus on the second half of the TV series and didn't really include much from the first half outside of throwaway lines and segmented scenes with new backgrounds. And amazingly, it was worse than the original because even though that second half was slow, you basically understood everything going on. The movie requires prior knowledge of the show itself in some areas, and that's not something Frontier needed once.

For whatever reason, Kawamori (in theory) believed the second half was the best and keeps trying to reinvent the situations in it to sell it. Sadly, I don't think he really understands the execution is what failed, not the ideas. And you know, I keep reminding myself that even if I wrote all of that on Twitter, the man would clearly not care. But I commend him for sticking to his guns.

The second movie... I can only hope it's not gonna try to reinvent the first half of the TV series since the first movie skipped over 85% of it.

As for Frontier and Kawamori himself: Looking back at those movies, I slowly realized those movies didn't age well. Not in animation or quality; but the direction of the plot in the first movie really doesn't work for the second movie. I never really noticed it until I re-watched it last month. Can't really go into it here because this is the wrong thread but I bring it up because looking at how the first movie ends vs. how the second movie begins and how much is skipped over in-between those movies actually helps me understand what Kawamori himself considers "chopping up a TV series for a theatrical presentation". There is a lot of context (and character development) lost for people who didn't watch the TV show. And considering both movies and TV series live in separate universes, it's not ideal for it to be like that. I had to sit down and explain a lot of the Delta TV series to a friend who literally thought she could watch through the first movie and not need to see the TV series. When it's supposedly a recap/retelling, you don't expect to need prior knowledge. But I notice this is a long-standing issue with his works; because I watched the Sousei no Aquarion movie prior to the TV series and I was lost. But I was more confused about the movie after because it had really nothing to do (plot-wise) with the TV series. It's... baffling, really.

[Nachtwandler]

I still prefer Frontier movies way better than the series as it has way more consistent script.

Still, each Macross had its flaws. It is mainly just a matter of taste. I just hope Delta is not the last one.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Nachtwandler

I still prefer Frontier movies way better than the series as it has way more consistent script.

Still, each Macross had its flaws. It is mainly just a matter of taste. I just hope Delta is not the last one.

True. And I'm not gonna argue the movies had more consistent animation either. But when I look at it in comparison to Plus and Do You Remember Love, I feel like those movies did a better consistent job of the plot delivery but Frontier and Delta likely have so much loaded onto them that Kawamori is not willing to give up when adapting it to a theater, and maybe that's why they don't age as well overall.

[Nachtwandler]

I have a bit controversial relationship with Macross Plus. Though, it is mainly related to how much I hated the MC.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Nachtwandler

I still prefer Frontier movies way better than the series as it has way more consistent script.

Hell to the max no. Frontier TV was a much better story overall than the movies with better character work as well.

[Nachtwandler]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Hell to the max no. Frontier TV was a much better story overall than the movies with better character work as well.

I would argue with it.

- They killed Michael just because;
- They made Sherils manager and Rankas brother behave out of character as generic villians in final parts of the story just because, instead of exploiting the whole plot with crazy goverment of their homeplanet;
- The whole situation with Sherils potential imprisonment was abandonned;
- They ended the series with generic happy end that did not resolve romantic triangle any way.

And these are just from the top of my head. It is pretty clear that the script was rewritten during the process and scriptwriters just were not sure what to do with trhe plot.

Despite movies being much more condenced I like the general storyline and ending way more there.

[HirouKeimou]

Originally Posted by Nachtwandler

I would argue with it.

Spoiler for Frontier stuff is a spoiler so use spoiler tags please:

- They killed Michael just because;
- They made Sherils manager and Rankas brother behave out of character as generic villians in final parts of the story just because, instead of exploiting the whole plot with crazy goverment of their homeplanet;
- The whole situation with Sherils potential imprisonment was abandonned;
- They ended the series with generic happy end that did not resolve romantic triangle any way.

And these are just from the top of my head. It is pretty clear that the script was rewritten during the process and scriptwriters just were not sure what to do with trhe plot.

Despite movies being much more condenced I like the general storyline and ending way more there.

To be fair, in order:

Spoiler for Frontier isn't the greatest writing in the world but it's not terrible...:

- Not an excuse for it but Michael's death served as a push for Alto because their slopping writing of Alto's character throughout the first half of the series left him as this completely indecisive character following wherever the wind blew. And this infuriated a lot of characters on the show, including Ozma, who in the movie got to freaking punch him. Talk about not critically thinking about things, Alto took Mishima's words about the Vajra at face value and failed to think for himself, which he later regretted but alas his character having flaws essentially meant other characters had to pay for it.

- Grace is an enigma. On one hand, it's foreshadowed a couple of times earlier in the story with her relationship with Mishima prior. However, her actions and complete disregard for Sheryl, at least, were confusing at first. Because it did sort of come out of left field in episode 15. And it's like they felt Mishima didn't work as enough of a villain so then they decided Grace was but then also Galaxy, except Galaxy isn't Grace herself, she's a part of Galaxy. The whole thing got super hive mined in the final episode, especially. So it's like, I look at Delta, and I get it considering Frontier's reveal in episode 24.

- This is valid. But I always took it as by the time Mishima had power to do so (death of Catherine's father), the situation was in such a dire strain and Sheryl was already compromised so he could blackmail her into doing his bidding. And once the show finished, they'd basically cleared Sheryl's name. Ranka, on the other hand, is one I'm kind of bitter about in the TV series because they basically glossed over how she temporarily (for good reasons, but I digress) swapped sides and if it would have any negative consequences for her as a person once the war had ended. They dropped this in the movies and thank goodness. Because the switch itself still baffles lots of people; her sudden choice to go with the Vajra in the context of the show and her character makes no sense at all; however, as an outsider looking in it could be perceived differently; so it's been a mixed bag and one of the most inconsistent writing in the show by far.

- Didn't really care about the triangular ending but not gonna lie, I look back at the ending and feel it really didn't deliver on where the consequences for the villains. And I've talked in prior forums on here about how Galaxy is still at large (the main ship) at the end of the TV series. And as far as I remember, the movies didn't resolve that either. So it's like, I could write that off as lazy writing, but the show is kind of about the people who live on Frontier, specifically. So it's no surprise if Galaxy one day shows up as an enemy in a new Macross. The most interesting aspect would be to see how Kawamori would keep their affiliation to the ship a secret.

On topic, at the end of the day, Delta is ironically better as a TV series because of how much it sadly wants to cover in one go. Whereas the movie can't focus on one plot or the other. So it's like eight stories all going on at once with very little resolution for each one. And I know I said it's a lot more compact back when the movie first hit Blu-ray, and it's true; but that can be a detriment. After all, as I said for Frontier, it's not simply a retelling of events because a lot of those events are mixed up so much that the original context of the TV series no longer works. Everything about the characters is changed or swapped around. I said ages ago how Sheryl got watered down in her movie appearance to a point where if you didn't watch the TV show you wouldn't know this girl suffered much outside of a passing mention in the movie. But it's a real plot point in the TV series that's supposed to help you sympathize with her. And it's sort of why I wish they would stop doing a retelling of an established series and make a sequel movie for an existing plot. They did this with 7, what's so hard about other Macross'? (And no, I'm not counting Frontier's second movie being a completely different beast from the original series or Delta's new movie because it's still in the movie verse; I mean something following the TV adaption.)