Mahouka [LN/M] - Character Speculation/Theories: Lu Gonghu

[Kairin]

The purpose of this thread is to provide a place to discuss all speculation, theories, and general discussion related to Lu Gonghu.

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[Jirachier]

Originally Posted by Guest2

Lu was literally near-invincible due to his skin and armour enhancing magics, strolled through gunfire and crushed Japanese magicians and their mobile amours in close combat with just his hands and feet. No other magician has been shown able to mimic such feats with just their bare hands and martial arts. Is this not inline with everything you're saying he should be?

What makes you invincible isn't defeating fodders with ease, Katsuto could've done the same thing with his Phalanx. What matters is what can he do when facing powerful magicians.

Originally Posted by Guest2

While I can understand you found his losses and what happened disappointing, but your facts about who beat him don't match with what I read in the novel.
Spoiler for From what I remember...:


Ultimately, the novel stated Mayumi, the magic sniper he couldn't even see, protected her colleagues and beat him by exploding magic dry ice particles in his lungs. Since he dodged or blocked everything else she fired, she had to slip invisible gas particles inside his body to actually attack him successfully. Everyone who engaged him in CQC was defeated by him instantly except Naotsugu or when he had to dodge magic sniper fire.

I was mostly talking about the fight vs Erika+Leo+Mari+Mayumi. All of those explanations are just excuses, he's one of the top 10 out of like what, 1 million magicians/magic fighters in the world, defeating him should not be that easy and the victory should come at a price especially against teenage magicians regardless of their so-called talent.

Originally Posted by Guest2

Okay some students beat him and it was disappointing. I personally don't see the point of emphasizing they are students or teenagers when the story has always been about high school magicians, and I believe age has no relevance if the attacker has a deadly weapon they know how to use. But this doesn't really cover what I was saying.

Actually age is completely relevant when comparing magicians to each others, especially against the absolute best in the entire world. Lu is also a magician, and an extremely talented one at that, combined with amazing martial prowess and years and years of experience and practice. So yeah it doesn't make sense for him to lose to teen magis who aren't even the best teenagers out there.

Originally Posted by Guest2

Are you saying strolling and tearing through machine gunfire, amoured vehicles and magician blockades like they weren't there, easily beating down everyone in close combat except 1 person who is also a top world ranking magic CQC expert, while countering ambushing sniper/backup fire, while being heavily injured with nothing but one's bare hands, is Not Enough superlative and expected only from top world-rankers in magic CQC?

It is indeed expected from a world-class magician to be able to do those things, but it is also expected of him to troll 4 teenagers. Let me make a quick ranking system to explain myself
Let's say magic fighters(i prefer this to magicians, cos a lot rely on the combination of magic with martial arts and the level of both is important not just magic) were ranked between D being the lowest and S+ being the highest. I'd put Lu at S class(I'd give S+ to ones who are the strongest magicians in the world regardless of range like Maya), Mayumi/Mari/Erika at A+ and Leo at A, it shouldn't take just this many A+ and A to defeat an S class fighter. How many people in the world exist that are on the same level as Mari/Mayumi/Erika ? I'm pretty sure you'll at least find like 2 thousands worldwide, so does this mean that you can randomly pick 4 of them and send them against one of the top 10 and he'd lose ? That's dumb.

[zerozeronine]

my two cents with Lu losing to teenagers,didn't Mari cheated by using her magic to make Lu inhale something (actually forgot what it was),while he was distracted?And it was 3 on 1 with 3 teenage but capable CQC magicians.With that fight Erika is a strong CQC magician but actually lose to him that easily.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Guest2

Dude, in this novel you should understand by now that if you encounter exceptionally powerful magicians who have you targeted, you do not adapt, you RUN or instantly DIE. No matter how great your magic aided close combat skills in the world are, in an upfront confrontation a person who can kill you from long distance with their mind can only be countered by a similarly exceptional super power.

I find you are underestimating CQC magicians a little here. An excellent one should be able to reach his target even at long distance IMO. Naotsugu for example easily beat USNA soldiers with his speed. Contrarly to him, Lu uses his Steel Qigong but with Gram Demolition + one of the best long range magician with the help of Mari. He couldn't do much, I wonder how Naotsugu would have dealt with this situation, one thing is sure he would have done much better.

Originally Posted by zerozeronine

my two cents with Lu losing to teenagers,didn't Mari cheated by using her magic to make Lu inhale something (actually forgot what it was),while he was distracted?And it was 3 on 1 with 3 teenage but capable CQC magicians.With that fight Erika is a strong CQC magician but actually lose to him that easily.

It wasn't cheating. It was magic and it's part of her fighting style, something like this would be useless against Tatsuya thought. Erika is a good CQC fighter given her level as a swordsman, the problem is that her magic isn't that good. She would be a Bloom otherwise.

[Echizen777]

Let's say magic fighters(i prefer this to magicians, cos a lot rely on the combination of magic with martial arts and the level of both is important not just magic) were ranked between D being the lowest and S+ being the highest. I'd put Lu at S class(I'd give S+ to ones who are the strongest magicians in the world regardless of range like Maya), Mayumi/Mari/Erika at A+ and Leo at A, it shouldn't take just this many A+ and A to defeat an S class fighter. How many people in the world exist that are on the same level as Mari/Mayumi/Erika ? I'm pretty sure you'll at least find like 2 thousands worldwide, so does this mean that you can randomly pick 4 of them and send them against one of the top 10 and he'd lose ? That's dumb.

Erika and Leo certainly aren't A. But Mayumi and Mari are S IMO. Erika and Leo are way weaker than them. Tatsuya, Katsuto and Miyuki are the only ones at 1st high who are a match for these 2 .

[pampz21]

Originally Posted by zerozeronine

my two cents with Lu losing to teenagers,didn't Mari cheated by using her magic to make Lu inhale something (actually forgot what it was),while he was distracted?And it was 3 on 1 with 3 teenage but capable CQC magicians.With that fight Erika is a strong CQC magician but actually lose to him that easily.

Erika was trolling in the fight.

[Guest2]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

What makes you invincible isn't defeating fodders with ease, Katsuto could've done the same thing with his Phalanx. What matters is what can he do when facing powerful magicians.

You've misunderstand what I was saying. I replied to your point about - He is supposed to be one of the top 10 specialist in close combats in the ENTIRE world, so after all these decades of experimenting on creating magicians, polishing martial arts and magic, researching them etc etc, we got 10 people of everyone and he's one of them. -

Katsuto can do the same thing only because he's a ridiculously powerful magic barrier specialist from Japan's most successful magician enhancement programs.

No one else in the novel has been shown able to do what Lu did, the way he did it. Through magically aided and overpowering bare handed martial prowess. No One.

Originally Posted by Jirachier

I was mostly talking about the fight vs Erika+Leo+Mari+Mayumi. All of those explanations are just excuses, he's one of the top 10 out of like what, 1 million magicians/magic fighters in the world, defeating him should not be that easy and the victory should come at a price especially against teenage magicians regardless of their so-called talent.

As I said, I do understand it was disappointing on his part because of how quickly and cleanly the author ended it. But I pointed out he did easily counter and beat down everybody he could reach in that final scene.

Victory only comes at a price in long dawn out fantastic battles. I can understanding wishing for more fantasy-style battle damage to make the story more gripping. But being the world best doesn't mean another person's personal defensive magic powers stop working or that their genetically enhanced trait of shrugging off ridiculous damage suddenly disappears.

I just don't agree with using the reason that their magic talent doesn't matter, since the whole theme of the novel is how magic talent allows magicians, young and old, to do the impossible. Tatsuya constantly abuses his innate magic abilities to defend or restore himself.

Either way I do understand that it wasn't an impressive scene to you. I just feel if they didn't use the abilities they are known for to survive his blows that were aimed to kill, there would have been no serious injuries. They would have just instantly died after each single strike. And I personally don't want them to die yet.

Originally Posted by Jirachier

Actually age is completely relevant when comparing magicians to each others, especially against the absolute best in the entire world. Lu is also a magician, and an extremely talented one at that, combined with amazing martial prowess and years and years of experience and practice. So yeah it doesn't make sense for him to lose to teen magis who aren't even the best teenagers out there.

But you point here has no bearing on what happened in the novel or with what I pointed out. Firstly there was only one student who was able to match him in CQC, no one else did. Secondly, that student, Naotsugu, was stated to be around the same age as Lu. Thirdly, the other students who were actually able to halt his rampage used magic from outside his close combat range. If you can actually use a powerful gun(especially one that nearly always hits like magic does), the age difference has no relevance towards whether you get hurt or not.

Originally Posted by Jirachier

It is indeed expected from a world-class magician to be able to do those things, but it is also expected of him to troll 4 teenagers.

But he did troll the ones he could reach was my point. He couldn't troll the one that could kill from long distance with their mind, and was most likely unable to even see her. Mayumi didn't meet up with any of the others once the battle ended. Raw magic powerhouses like Tatsuya, Mayumi, Juumonji, Lina and Miyuki don't waste time with martial arts when they can go all out. They crush from a distance.

Originally Posted by Echizen777

I find you are underestimating CQC magicians a little here. An excellent one should be able to reach his target even at long distance IMO. Naotsugu for example easily beat USNA soldiers with his speed. Contrarly to him, Lu uses his Steel Qigong but with Gram Demolition + one of the best long range magician with the help of Mari. He couldn't do much, I wonder how Naotsugu would have dealt with this situation, one thing is sure he would have done much better.

Your comparison is a little off. Mayumi can magically create rapid-fire projectiles from any angle while being out of sight. Lu was able to successfully block or dodge nearly all of her attacks. Except when Tatsuya destroyed his defense or when Mayumi gave up attacking from the outside and decided to slip a gas bomb through his mouth and nose. There is little evidence in the novel to indicate to me Naotsugu could do any better.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Guest2

Your comparison is a little off. Mayumi can magically create rapid-fire projectiles from any angle while being out of sight. Lu was able to successfully block or dodge nearly all of her attacks. Except when Tatsuya destroyed his defense or when Mayumi gave up attacking from the outside and decided to slip a gas bomb through his mouth and nose. There is little evidence in the novel to indicate to me Naotsugu could do any better.

Naotsugu's switching make him able reach top speed and stop completely while creating afterimages. He could have fled or dodged attacks more easily , Lu resisted to her shots but Mayumi raised her shots's power, he was also victim of oxygen deprivation after being shot a few times, decreasing the power of her barrier one of the advantage of her magic is that she can control the speed and power of her shots.

[Jirachier]

Originally Posted by Guest2

Katsuto can do the same thing only because he's a ridiculously powerful magic barrier specialist from Japan's most successful magician enhancement programs.

No one else in the novel has been shown able to do what Lu did, the way he did it. Through magically aided and overpowering bare handed martial prowess. No One

It doesn't matter how he did it, every overpowered character has his own way of doing things, this isn't anymore impressive than what Miyuki/Katsuto/etc can do just because it's barehanded considering he is clad in magic.

Originally Posted by Guest2

Victory only comes at a price in long dawn out fantastic battles. I can understanding wishing for more fantasy-style battle damage to make the story more gripping. But being the world best doesn't mean another person's personal defensive magic powers stop working or that their genetically enhanced trait of shrugging off ridiculous damage suddenly disappears.

Being the world best means when facing people of lower power you should either defeat them or leave them in an extremely bad shape. And why are you making it sound like it's either they're gonna die or be completely safe, why isn't there a middle ground where they're injured. Random fodder fighters were able to give Isori and Kirihara serious injuries yet one of the top 10 close combat specialists in the world couldn't do it.

Originally Posted by Guest2

I just don't agree with using the reason that their magic talent doesn't matter, since the whole theme of the novel is how magic talent allows magicians, young and old, to do the impossible. Tatsuya constantly abuses his innate magic abilities to defend or restore himself.

I'm not denying magic talent, on the contrary. My point was that Lu is actually MORE talented than Erika/Mari/Mayumi/Leo(if you're gonna ask how do I know he's more talented, it's because he is one of the top 10 specialists in the world, is any of them gonna become that ? they have potential but not that much potential, especially not all of them), and not only is he so but he also has more experience and more time to polish his talent. Talent doesn't ignore age, it's just that if you're more talented than an older person then it makes sense to better or such, that's how these teenagers win against adults. But when facing a more TALENTED and OLDER person then it's a different story, they're the ones at a massive disadvantage.

Originally Posted by Guest2

Either way I do understand that it wasn't an impressive scene to you. I just feel if they didn't use the abilities they are known for to survive his blows that were aimed to kill, there would have been no serious injuries. They would have just instantly died after each single strike. And I personally don't want them to die yet.

You make it sound that in a magic battle, you either die or get out of it COMPLETELY unharmed, that literally only applies to Tatsuya because he has Regrowth. For example Erika was sent flying and lost consciousness, couldn't the author just make her hit the wall harder an break her bones or something ?

Originally Posted by Guest2

But you point here has no bearing on what happened in the novel or with what I pointed out. Firstly there was only one student who was able to match him in CQC, no one else did. Secondly, that student, Naotsugu, was stated to be around the same age as Lu. Thirdly, the other students who were actually able to halt his rampage used magic from outside his close combat range. If you can actually use a powerful gun(especially one that nearly always hits like magic does), the age difference has no relevance towards whether you get hurt or not.

I just want to say that I really have no problem regarding the fight between Lu and Naotsugu, it made perfect sense seeing how the latter is also one of the top 10 close combat specialists in the world.
As for the students, what you're doing is just explaining how they won, if you're one of the 10 best in the world you should have a way out of such a predicament. What Lu did against them would have been impressive if he was just another strong fighter, but when he's called one of the 10 best, it changes everything.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

I'm not denying magic talent, on the contrary. My point was that Lu is actually MORE talented than Erika/Mari/Mayumi/Leo(if you're gonna ask how do I know he's more talented, it's because he is one of the top 10 specialists in the world, is any of them gonna become that ? they have potential but not that much potential, especially not all of them), and not only is he so but he also has more experience and more time to polish his talent. Talent doesn't ignore age, it's just that if you're more talented than an older person then it makes sense to better or such, that's how these teenagers win against adults. But when facing a more TALENTED and OLDER person then it's a different story, they're the ones at a massive disadvantage.

He may be a talented magician but there is no way is talent is comparable to Mayumi, a descendant of the TMC. He is a talented martial artist. Age doesn't obligatorily make you stronger.

[Jirachier]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

He may be a talented magician but there is no way is talent is comparable to Mayumi, a descendant of the TMC. He is a talented martial artist. Age doesn't obligatorily make you stronger.

You're saying Mayumi is more talented than Lu ? The guys is literally one of the top 10 close combat specialists in the entire world, how do you think he got to that position ?
Age doesn't necessarily make you stronger unless you're more talented and older, in which case it does.

[millie10468]

Why on earth does Lu have his own thread when he's a minor character who shows up in a a few volumes. I mean, I can understand why Lina would have her own thread considering she also only showed up in a few volumes but Lu? LKK, wouldn't this do much better in the Other Characters thread?

[Rava]

Don't underestimate the power of RAGE to fuel discussion.

Although to be honest, being upset about him being taken out by Mayumi using Dry Meteor is both understandable yet silly. He basically lost to the power of her trolling.

Keeping in mind that she normally uses Hale Particles, Dry Meteor on first glance looks exactly like a much bigger version of Hale Particles. So it makes sense that he got suckered by the spell.

But it's kind of bad form to introduce a one shot ability like that, because it makes it feel more like an asspull. It probably would have been a bit better if she demonstrated use of CO2 in ways other than just Hale Particles to lead up to this.

[LKK]

Originally Posted by millie10468

Why on earth does Lu have his own thread when he's a minor character who shows up in a a few volumes. I mean, I can understand why Lina would have her own thread considering she also only showed up in a few volumes but Lu? LKK, wouldn't this do much better in the Other Characters thread?

No good deed goes unpunished, eh?

To be honest, ever since his introduction in the novels, I've felt that Lu was intended to be one of the series' Big Bads. So I've been a little surprised that no character thread for him has been requested yet. But when I identified 10 lengthy posts about him in the Tatsuya thread, I decided adding them to the Other Characters thread would turn that thread into a LU plus other characters thread rather an Other Characters thread. Therefore to maintain the balance in the Other Characters thread, I split him off into his own thread.

[My Zodiac Aries]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

You're saying Mayumi is more talented than Lu ? The guys is literally one of the top 10 close combat specialists in the entire world, how do you think he got to that position ?
Age doesn't necessarily make you stronger unless you're more talented and older, in which case it does.

of course she's more talented.
every younger generation are more talented.
Lina and Miyuki is also more talented than Yotsuba Maya.

Originally Posted by millie10468

Why on earth does Lu have his own thread when he's a minor character who shows up in a a few volumes. I mean, I can understand why Lina would have her own thread considering she also only showed up in a few volumes but Lu? LKK, wouldn't this do much better in the Other Characters thread?

i think so.
Lu is already dead, right ?

[Rava]

Originally Posted by My Zodiac Aries

of course she's more talented.
every younger generation are more talented.
Lina and Miyuki is also more talented than Yotsuba Maya.



i think so.
Lu is already dead, right ?

No, he's just captured. Again.

KOed by Mayumi.

[Jirachier]

of course she's more talented.
every younger generation are more talented.
Lina and Miyuki is also more talented than Yotsuba Maya.

She is not more talented.
The way it works is that if you take two talented magicians and they have a child, the child will probably be more talented than either of them, but this method will not keep working forever at one point it hits the limit of talent possible to achieve.
Second Mayumi is talented but she's not even on the level of talent of the BEST teenagers, Miyuki and Lina for example are on a different level. Finally this thing works when you take weaker magicians and try to keep making their children stronger and stronger, it's not some rule that say that EVERY single new teenage magician is stronger than EVERY adult, that makes absolutely no sense. Lu is CURRENTLY, in the presence of all these supposedly super talented teenagers, he is considered one of the top 10 close combat specialists in the entire world. He is more talented.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

She is not more talented.

To be more precise, he is not more talented than any magician of the 28 families.

The way it works is that if you take two talented magicians and they have a child, the child will probably be more talented than either of them, but this method will not keep working forever at one point it hits the limit of talent possible to achieve.

They said the magicians are becoming stronger by generation, it's overall. It doesn't mean that the child will be necessarily more talented than the parents. But a marriage between 2 gifted magicians will give birth to a gifted child for sure. You have Kudou for example who was the most gifted of his clan and his descendants, who are gifted but not at the same level as him. Still, their talent is absolutely superior to talented magicians who are not from the 28 families like Hanzo, Morisaki, Shizuku etc. Talent for a magician is your MP at birth. Lu's talent i.e. MP at birth must be that of a Bloom but it is not even close to the talent of a magician of the 28 families.

MP doesn't mean Combat Power. Although Lu's MP is certainly that of a talented mage from a normal family he is able to beat TMC magicians thanks to his mastery of martial arts. Maya for example, have less talent than Miyuki but in a battle Miyuki would have no chance to beat her Meteor Stream.

[Ultragunner]

Originally Posted by millie10468

Why on earth does Lu have his own thread when he's a minor character who shows up in a a few volumes. I mean, I can understand why Lina would have her own thread considering she also only showed up in a few volumes but Lu? LKK, wouldn't this do much better in the Other Characters thread?

Because pretty much everybody have been debating about the fact the Lu - who was supposed to be 1 of the TOP 10 CQC combat magicians in the world - lost to a bunch of teenagers

IMO, the most appropriate thing to say is that he was VERY VERY UNLUCKY, to be at the wrong place at the wrong time .

Let's break down a bit, shall we?

* His first (serious fight) in the LN was vs Naotsugu and Mari. For this, we all can agree that it was somewhat natural and reasonable for Lu to lose as Naotsugu was on par with him. If it was 1 vs 1 then the result would have been unpredictable, but Mari was backing up Nao so....

* 2nd fight - vs Tatsuya + Mayumi + Mari: first it needs to be mentioned that Lu wasn't in top form because he had been injured after the fight with Nao; second, it was Tatsuya who was the game-changer, Mari and Mayumi would have been easily killed if our MC hadn't been there.

* 3rd fight - vs Erika + Leo + Mayumi + Mari: to be fair, he did live up to his name as he did not struggle much to take out both Leo and Erika in such a short (or not so long) time. However, I do admit that this fight was a bit anti-climatic.

If I was the author, I would have put Erika's eldest brother - Toshikazu into the fight as well. And if that had been the case, I think nobody would be disagree about Lu losing for the 3rd time

* a little note for my point about Toshikazu: perhaps he is not the most talented of the Chiba siblings (Naotsugu, with little to no doubt, is the one), but he must possess a certain degree of skills to be the heir of Chiba *looking at Tatsuya*.

And if the two brothers were to fight to the death, I don't think Naotsugu would come out unscratched, I would even put my two cent for Toshikazu

[Sinarblood]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

She is not more talented.
The way it works is that if you take two talented magicians and they have a child, the child will probably be more talented than either of them, but this method will not keep working forever at one point it hits the limit of talent possible to achieve.
Second Mayumi is talented but she's not even on the level of talent of the BEST teenagers, Miyuki and Lina for example are on a different level. Finally this thing works when you take weaker magicians and try to keep making their children stronger and stronger, it's not some rule that say that EVERY single new teenage magician is stronger than EVERY adult, that makes absolutely no sense. Lu is CURRENTLY, in the presence of all these supposedly super talented teenagers, he is considered one of the top 10 close combat specialists in the entire world. He is more talented.

Mayumi is that at a level of talent that is at the same level as Lu, I was rereading volume 7 today, read a particular quote and immediately thought of this thread :P .

Originally Posted by volume 7 chapter 12

One of the finest close combat Magicians fell before the onslaught of the young woman nicknamed the "Magic Shooter" for her prowess in long-range precision shooting that ranked in the top 10 in the world.

Magic Shooter is Mayumi's nickname. Well she isn't at Miyuki's level at wide area magic, or lina's level at wide area magic or close quarters, she is stated by text, to be ranking in the top 10 of long-range precision shooting, so Lu is in the top 10 of close combat and Mayumi is in the top 10 in what is basically sniping, which is the foil of close combat.

So with that revealed, all battles in which Lu lost either had someone of similar world wide ranking in close quarters combat or in sniping.

edit: while this is a bit of topic, I personally think Mayumi would be able to beat Lina or Miyuki if she was at a range that she could use her abilities to their maximum effectiveness (and if Lina is not using stragetic type magic), but THAT will only cause an even greater debate, so I won't go there in arguing the case and it would really need to be a topic discussed in the Mayumi thread not here XD.