AnimeSuki Forums

scififan · 2015-05-03, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

I have no idea what you want to tell me with anything past the first sentence.
My point was that it isn't too alien to add italian ships to the game, and that by doing that they'd play it rather safe considering how the Italians wee both amongst the Allies as well as the Axis powers.
The other point was that another ship that could have been added was prince of wales since there the event was close to her launch date.

Whether she was actually there doesn't really matter in that regard because Bismarck was nowhere near the pacific either.

I have no idea why you are so obssessed to add inlcude non-Japanese ships for a Japanese centric game. Adding those ships is fine for Japanese gamers, if they are interested. Your interest is not equivalent to their interest. It's why the game make the forign ships as the demon hime. The game has demon ship modeled after USS Washington and demon seaport hime modeled after Australia's Darwain city. If the game is going to bring Prince of Wales, the greater chance is she's going to be an enemy boss.
Bismarck analogy was nonsense, because German navy was not foe of IJN.

Kakurin · 2015-05-03, 02:52

*sigh*

The Abyssals are not representing the Allies. The Abyssals have CLTs, which is something only the Japanese had. The Abyssals have BBVs, which again is only something the Japanese had. Some Abyssal boss opponents are clearly kanmusu based (CL Seiki as cross between Agano and Naka, DD Seiki as Harusame, just to name two). I don't even know who you are talking about when saying somebody is modeled after USS Washington. Because neither the BB Hime, nor the BB Suiki are.

AC-Phoenix · 2015-05-03, 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by scififan

I have no idea why you are so obssessed to add inlcude non-Japanese ships for a Japanese centric game. Adding those ships is fine for Japanese gamers, if they are interested. Your interest is not equivalent to their interest. It's why the game make the forign ships as the demon hime. The game has demon ship modeled after USS Washington and demon seaport hime modeled after Australia's Darwain city. If the game is going to bring Prince of Wales, the greater chance is she's going to be an enemy boss.
Bismarck analogy was nonsense, because German navy was not foe of IJN.

Lets start with the fact that if you make it cute it will sell in Japan, thus you cannot say that there is no interest at all.

And e facto Allied ships would have far more reasons to be in the pacific than Bismarck has.

For the other things, see Kakurin's post. - the Abyssals ARE NOT the allied ships.
I don't know how many times people said that by now...

chaosprophet · 2015-05-03, 06:18

One thing I would agree with scififan. This is a game to the Japanese so If there is any ship girls added from the allies, and from any foreign country too, then it would be likely the ones that are well known / liked by the Japanese, which are not necessary the same that are well known / liked by the people from that country.

Sheba · 2015-05-03, 06:27

Seriously, ask yourself IF Japanese would welcome shipgirls who were personification of ships like the Missouri or those who sunk their navy?

AC-Phoenix · 2015-05-03, 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

Seriously, ask yourself IF Japanese would welcome shipgirls who were personification of ships like the Missouri or those who sunk their navy?

The one in question right now was PoW.
Missouri for one is the exact ship I expect that hell would freeze sooner than her being added, but I said that somewhere already.

Strictly said, Italia and Roma are technically Allied ships too btw, hence why I said they played it safe.

As for the sinking part:
And yet that would actually bring in a gorgeous dynamic, especially for the anime.

My point is people grow out of the past after a while.
Take all the ship models being sold in both Japan, the US and Europe.

You easily get models of Japanese ships in the US too for example, and they snak a good portion of their ships too.

Ithekro · 2015-05-03, 15:26

However, on a gaming level, should they continue on for more than another year, they will need to add Allied shipgirls in order to maintain a quota of large rewards for events.

Why is this? Because at this point, unless they start going into never where ship or ships that were built before Kongo, the IJN has exactly one capital ship left to bring out as an event reward. The armored carrier Shinano.

Even if they stay with just Axis vessels, there is a very limited pool of capital ships left that aren't functionally weaker than Fuso and Kongo. The German Navy has one more 15 inch gun battleship (Tirpitz) and then two 11 inch gun battlecruisers (Scharnhorst-class) along with the three 11 inch gun armed armored cruisers (pocket battleships) and a pair of very old 11 inch gun armed pre-dreadnoughts. Most of the 11 inch armed ships will be undergunned verse any existing battleship ship girl, thought the battlecrusiers will have reasonable range and were designed to have their main batteries swapped out for 15 inch guns. It was started for the last one, but never finished as Hitler was done with the Navy by the end of 1943. There is also the unfinished carrier Graf Zepplin.

The Italian Navy had one remaining completed 15 inch gun battleship and one incompleted battleship of that same class. In addition they have four dreadnought of Kongo's age that had been heavily upgraded to 10 x 320mm cannons and 27 knots. They would still be undergunned compared to Fuso. They Italians had one or two incomplete aircraft carriers under construction during the war.

If the game designers don't want to add ships that are functional worse than the Fuso-class and not as useful as the Kongo-class, that the Axis have basically two battleships left to add and one carrier. The two German battlecruisers might be viable as their 11 inch guns had extreme range and accuracy as Scharnhorst share the record for longest range ship to ship gunnery hit with HMS Warspite at around 24,000 meters. The pocket battleships are functionally no better than a Japanese heavy cruiser, just their 11 inch guns will be able to penetrate thicker armor.

The Allies have a huge reserve of capital ships to exploit by the game designers. Even before they started building their new fast battleships, the UK and US had 15 battleships each. Of which only USS Wyoming is reasonably inferior to Fuso, with the New York and Nevada classes being around the same. The fast battleships add potentally 6 more British ships (if Vangard is kept) and 10 more American ships. Add to this the aircraft carriers. The British had seven carriers at the start of the war (three Couragous-class, Argus (tiny), Hermes (tiny), Eagle (tiny), and Ark Royal (very lightly armored deck)). Then built four Illustrious-class armored carriers, two Implacable-class armored carriers, light carrier Unicorn, and seven of ten Colossus-class light carriers finished during the war.

For the Americans, there are seven carriers in service at war's start. Then an additional 14 of 24 Essex-class carriers that saw action in the war, and 9 Independance-class light carriers. This makes for a lot of potental growth in the game in terms of event rewards.

Remaining Axis capital ships: 3 (16 maximum)
Potential Allied capital ships: 96 (roughly)

scififan · 2015-05-04, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

*sigh*

The Abyssals are not representing the Allies. The Abyssals have CLTs, which is something only the Japanese had. The Abyssals have BBVs, which again is only something the Japanese had. Some Abyssal boss opponents are clearly kanmusu based (CL Seiki as cross between Agano and Naka, DD Seiki as Harusame, just to name two). I don't even know who you are talking about when saying somebody is modeled after USS Washington. Because neither the BB Hime, nor the BB Suiki are.

I was going to respond to you, but I realized that you already made up your mind. So, I am not going to convince you. It's wasting our time.

How Japanse Kan Colle players view Battle of Surigao Strait.

How Jpn Kan Colle players view Battle of Midway.

Kakurin · 2015-05-04, 01:20

You do know that this is from a collection of representation of historical battles via Kancolle, not what the girls actually represent in Kancolle? Seriously, you look like you never dug into the game, never looked at the lines, never looked at the designs. You just claim come here without any real Kancolle knowledge and claim random stuff.

By the way, in the first Surigao battle screen, half of the girls are Chi-class torpedo cruisers. The only nation that had torpedo cruisers in the fleet during World War 2 were the Japanese.

I have laid out facts that are verifiable, you just claim things with the only thing "backing" them up being a series of screens by a couple of artists taking the liberty of using Kancolle to represent historical battles. Nowhere was it ever stated that the artist actually thinks that those girls are representing USN. And to generalise those two screens into what "Japanese KanColle players" are thinking is folly.

Ithekro · 2015-05-04, 01:23

There are still many things wrong with interpreting the Abyssal as the American or Allies in general. Most of the newer more human shaped Abyssal are clearly corrupted versions of existsing Japanese based shipgirls. Also the mentioned fact that no other country has Aviation Battleships or Torpedo Cruisers during World War II except Japan. The only thing that points to the Abyssal being American are their armaments and later aircraft names (guns using Imperial or US customary units and Hellcats).

The thing is a allusion to World War II. The places are similar and the situations are similar, but it is not the same. The theory is starting to go around that the Abyssal are the demons of the shipgirls themselves rather than an allusion of the Americans.

The designers appear to be interested in adding Allied shipgirls in the future and it would be reasonable to do so in order to continue the game, as they still have several events styled on World War II operations and battles they can do. That and if they plan to keep providing carrier, battleship, and cruiser rewards, they are going to have to start using Allied shipgirls as the Axis based ship girls are too few to continue as rewards. As mentions there are only a few viable Axis capital ships left and the number of cruisers is just as small. The Italians had 7 heavy cruisers and 16 light cruisers while Germany had in addition to the already introduced Prinz Eugen 2 more heavy cruisers (plus two incomplete of the class), 3 armored cruisers, and 6 light cruisers. As well at two very old pre-dreadnought battleship used as coastal defense ships, both commissioned in 1908. Otherwise all the player will be getting is destroyer shipgirls and submarines.

msg · 2015-05-04, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

Seriously, ask yourself IF Japanese would welcome shipgirls who were personification of ships like the Missouri or those who sunk their navy?

What? I can assure you not all the japanese in general and playing the game are thinking like that.A lot of them even anticipate and welcome the "allied" ships (if introduced)... stop generalizing.It's just a game

...there is one (unique)class of ship that i would like to see in kancolle that the ijn doesn't have it serving in the ww2.I would also consider it a "capital" ship.This country/ies also happens to be allied to the axis...or some of you called it co- belligerent

Finland coastal defence ship - Väinämöinen-class ship.
and the japanese made thailand coastal defence ship the Thonburi class ship

...of course there are others like the Sverige class from Sweden but i just list the "Axis" ships only.Well there's another "axis"ship ( or boat) from bulgaria which they consider the "capital" ship but ...

Ithekro · 2015-05-04, 14:00

Those ships would be interesting, but both are painfully slow and armed to take on cruisers (at best).

basinz123 · 2015-05-06, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by scififan

I was going to respond to you, but I realized that you already made up your mind. So, I am not going to convince you. It's wasting our time.

How Japanse Kan Colle players view Battle of Surigao Strait.

How Jpn Kan Colle players view Battle of Midway.

did you know that the US Navy have 3 Carriers and the IJN have 4 Carriers at the Battle of Midway. The other ships like Hoshou, Nagato, etc. just came after Hiryuu burns if Im not wrong XD

Sheba · 2015-05-06, 20:19

Just a reminder that there is a difference between this fan representation of Midway and the actual Midway event in the game. As for the Abyssals = Allies topic, it's as if one can tell who play the game and who dont from how they take that theory.

basinz123 · 2015-05-06, 21:42

sorry I thought it like based on the actual battles and I don't believe that the US Navy are the Abyssals because I have Enterprise on my side XD.

Saint X · 2015-05-07, 09:30

LF Actual Allied ship ingame.

just one is enough to kill the Abyssal Allies theory for me.

just one...

AC-Phoenix · 2015-05-07, 10:21

Like Littario and Roma who were actually on their way to defect when they were sunk?

Sheba · 2015-05-07, 10:23

Roma did sink. Littorio managed to limp her way to Malta.

AC-Phoenix · 2015-05-08, 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

Roma did sink. Littorio managed to limp her way to Malta.

Thats even better then.

--------------
Also Littorio/Italia doesn't seem to be too happy about meeting german ships either

"10:00 AM. Ah! Those German shipgirls are also here? Really..."

Ithekro · 2015-05-11, 04:26

A technical question. Assuming none of the Pearl Harbor carriers were sunk, and that all the ships converted in the 40s were still converted, by Leyte Gulf, just after Katsuragi is commissioned, what would the Carrier Divisions look like?

Or in game terms, assume you have all the carrier shipgirls plus Shinano. What divisions are they in?

Akagi
Kaga
Soryu
Hiryu
Shoukaku
Zuikaku
Taiho
Shinano (potentally, the Navy were already deciding what to do with her in December of 1941, as they questioned the effectiveness of battleship after bombers took out Repluse and Prince of Wales, plus all those in Pearl Harbor)
Unryuu
Amagi
Katsuragi - viable by October 1944
(potental if things need to be even with the fleet carriers)
Kasagi - (fourth carrier of the Unryuu class stopped constuction in April 1945 at 84% complete. Scheduled for June 1945).

Houshou
Ryuujou
Zuiho
Shouhou
Hiyo
Junyou
Ryuuhou
(popentially - both were designed for easy conversion to carrier as part of a shadow program to get around the treaties tonnage restrictions.)
Chitose
Chiyoda

2015-05-03, 02:52	Link #82
Kakurin 大佐 Join Date: Jun 2013	sigh The Abyssals are not representing the Allies. The Abyssals have CLTs, which is something only the Japanese had. The Abyssals have BBVs, which again is only something the Japanese had. Some Abyssal boss opponents are clearly kanmusu based (CL Seiki as cross between Agano and Naka, DD Seiki as Harusame, just to name two). I don't even know who you are talking about when saying somebody is modeled after USS Washington. Because neither the BB Hime, nor the BB Suiki are. __________________

2015-05-03, 06:18	Link #84
chaosprophet Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brazil	One thing I would agree with scififan. This is a game to the Japanese so If there is any ship girls added from the allies, and from any foreign country too, then it would be likely the ones that are well known / liked by the Japanese, which are not necessary the same that are well known / liked by the people from that country. __________________

2015-05-03, 15:26	Link #87
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	However, on a gaming level, should they continue on for more than another year, they will need to add Allied shipgirls in order to maintain a quota of large rewards for events. Why is this? Because at this point, unless they start going into never where ship or ships that were built before Kongo, the IJN has exactly one capital ship left to bring out as an event reward. The armored carrier Shinano. Even if they stay with just Axis vessels, there is a very limited pool of capital ships left that aren't functionally weaker than Fuso and Kongo. The German Navy has one more 15 inch gun battleship (Tirpitz) and then two 11 inch gun battlecruisers (Scharnhorst-class) along with the three 11 inch gun armed armored cruisers (pocket battleships) and a pair of very old 11 inch gun armed pre-dreadnoughts. Most of the 11 inch armed ships will be undergunned verse any existing battleship ship girl, thought the battlecrusiers will have reasonable range and were designed to have their main batteries swapped out for 15 inch guns. It was started for the last one, but never finished as Hitler was done with the Navy by the end of 1943. There is also the unfinished carrier Graf Zepplin. The Italian Navy had one remaining completed 15 inch gun battleship and one incompleted battleship of that same class. In addition they have four dreadnought of Kongo's age that had been heavily upgraded to 10 x 320mm cannons and 27 knots. They would still be undergunned compared to Fuso. They Italians had one or two incomplete aircraft carriers under construction during the war. If the game designers don't want to add ships that are functional worse than the Fuso-class and not as useful as the Kongo-class, that the Axis have basically two battleships left to add and one carrier. The two German battlecruisers might be viable as their 11 inch guns had extreme range and accuracy as Scharnhorst share the record for longest range ship to ship gunnery hit with HMS Warspite at around 24,000 meters. The pocket battleships are functionally no better than a Japanese heavy cruiser, just their 11 inch guns will be able to penetrate thicker armor. The Allies have a huge reserve of capital ships to exploit by the game designers. Even before they started building their new fast battleships, the UK and US had 15 battleships each. Of which only USS Wyoming is reasonably inferior to Fuso, with the New York and Nevada classes being around the same. The fast battleships add potentally 6 more British ships (if Vangard is kept) and 10 more American ships. Add to this the aircraft carriers. The British had seven carriers at the start of the war (three Couragous-class, Argus (tiny), Hermes (tiny), Eagle (tiny), and Ark Royal (very lightly armored deck)). Then built four Illustrious-class armored carriers, two Implacable-class armored carriers, light carrier Unicorn, and seven of ten Colossus-class light carriers finished during the war. For the Americans, there are seven carriers in service at war's start. Then an additional 14 of 24 Essex-class carriers that saw action in the war, and 9 Independance-class light carriers. This makes for a lot of potental growth in the game in terms of event rewards. Remaining Axis capital ships: 3 (16 maximum) Potential Allied capital ships: 96 (roughly) __________________

2015-05-04, 01:20	Link #89
Kakurin 大佐 Join Date: Jun 2013	You do know that this is from a collection of representation of historical battles via Kancolle, not what the girls actually represent in Kancolle? Seriously, you look like you never dug into the game, never looked at the lines, never looked at the designs. You just claim come here without any real Kancolle knowledge and claim random stuff. By the way, in the first Surigao battle screen, half of the girls are Chi-class torpedo cruisers. The only nation that had torpedo cruisers in the fleet during World War 2 were the Japanese. I have laid out facts that are verifiable, you just claim things with the only thing "backing" them up being a series of screens by a couple of artists taking the liberty of using Kancolle to represent historical battles. Nowhere was it ever stated that the artist actually thinks that those girls are representing USN. And to generalise those two screens into what "Japanese KanColle players" are thinking is folly. __________________

2015-05-04, 01:23	Link #90
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	There are still many things wrong with interpreting the Abyssal as the American or Allies in general. Most of the newer more human shaped Abyssal are clearly corrupted versions of existsing Japanese based shipgirls. Also the mentioned fact that no other country has Aviation Battleships or Torpedo Cruisers during World War II except Japan. The only thing that points to the Abyssal being American are their armaments and later aircraft names (guns using Imperial or US customary units and Hellcats). The thing is a allusion to World War II. The places are similar and the situations are similar, but it is not the same. The theory is starting to go around that the Abyssal are the demons of the shipgirls themselves rather than an allusion of the Americans. The designers appear to be interested in adding Allied shipgirls in the future and it would be reasonable to do so in order to continue the game, as they still have several events styled on World War II operations and battles they can do. That and if they plan to keep providing carrier, battleship, and cruiser rewards, they are going to have to start using Allied shipgirls as the Axis based ship girls are too few to continue as rewards. As mentions there are only a few viable Axis capital ships left and the number of cruisers is just as small. The Italians had 7 heavy cruisers and 16 light cruisers while Germany had in addition to the already introduced Prinz Eugen 2 more heavy cruisers (plus two incomplete of the class), 3 armored cruisers, and 6 light cruisers. As well at two very old pre-dreadnought battleship used as coastal defense ships, both commissioned in 1908. Otherwise all the player will be getting is destroyer shipgirls and submarines. __________________ Last edited by Ithekro; 2015-05-04 at 01:40.

2015-05-03, 06:27	Link #85
Sheba RUN, YOU FOOLS! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	Seriously, ask yourself IF Japanese would welcome shipgirls who were personification of ships like the Missouri or those who sunk their navy?

2015-05-04, 14:00	Link #92
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Those ships would be interesting, but both are painfully slow and armed to take on cruisers (at best). __________________

2015-05-06, 20:19	Link #94
Sheba RUN, YOU FOOLS! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	Just a reminder that there is a difference between this fan representation of Midway and the actual Midway event in the game. As for the Abyssals = Allies topic, it's as if one can tell who play the game and who dont from how they take that theory.

2015-05-06, 21:42	Link #95
basinz123 a Fan of Criken Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Philippines	sorry I thought it like based on the actual battles and I don't believe that the US Navy are the Abyssals because I have Enterprise on my side XD. __________________ There are no extraordinary men... just extraordinary circumstances that ordinary men are forced to deal with. Fleet Admiral William Frederick Halsey Jr.

2015-05-07, 09:30	Link #96
Saint X VxR Productions IT Support Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Philippines	LF Actual Allied ship ingame. just one is enough to kill the Abyssal Allies theory for me. just one... __________________

2015-05-07, 10:21	Link #97
AC-Phoenix Detective Join Date: Aug 2010 Age: 36	Like Littario and Roma who were actually on their way to defect when they were sunk? __________________ Those who forget about the past are condemned to repeat it - Santayana Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.

2015-05-07, 10:23	Link #98
Sheba RUN, YOU FOOLS! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	Roma did sink. Littorio managed to limp her way to Malta.

2015-05-11, 04:26	Link #100
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	A technical question. Assuming none of the Pearl Harbor carriers were sunk, and that all the ships converted in the 40s were still converted, by Leyte Gulf, just after Katsuragi is commissioned, what would the Carrier Divisions look like? Or in game terms, assume you have all the carrier shipgirls plus Shinano. What divisions are they in? Akagi Kaga Soryu Hiryu Shoukaku Zuikaku Taiho Shinano (potentally, the Navy were already deciding what to do with her in December of 1941, as they questioned the effectiveness of battleship after bombers took out Repluse and Prince of Wales, plus all those in Pearl Harbor) Unryuu Amagi Katsuragi - viable by October 1944 (potental if things need to be even with the fleet carriers) Kasagi - (fourth carrier of the Unryuu class stopped constuction in April 1945 at 84% complete. Scheduled for June 1945). Houshou Ryuujou Zuiho Shouhou Hiyo Junyou Ryuuhou (popentially - both were designed for easy conversion to carrier as part of a shadow program to get around the treaties tonnage restrictions.) Chitose Chiyoda __________________