Shin High School Volume 1 Discussion

[Lord Kai]

Originally Posted by XFire

Meaning Vali needed help to access his own power. Which would be worse.

For that matter Ophis was just awakening the power inside Issei after being reborn. She wasn't remotely channeling energy into him.

Sairong didnt train for the ability to equip one of his allies, lol wut.

And again Issei is just receiving help to awaken his own power as opposed to basically doing a fusion dance.

Not to mention that Pseudo doesnt rely on Ophis since it restricts the PoI, and is still stronger than everyone you mentioned.

Not really, again DxD L is just the awakening of Lucifer power mixing in with Albion's power so the potential is far less while Issei is actually given the power of infinity.

Nothing was stated she was awakening Issei's hidden power. She actually gave him the power of infinity but had to take it back because his body couldn't handle it.

Sairaorg's BxB is a collaboration technique with Regulus. Sairaorg isn't a human so he wasn't born with power of Regulus but their junction is the result of training like it is for Rias Balor form and Xenovia CDD.

Issei wouldn't even have Pseudo DxD if not for original having DxD and even then he still needed Amrita to not only extend the time limit but also allow him to summon Ddraig. Again, so many handouts that Issei didn't need to work for.

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by TheWu8128

So Issei is only that strong because outside help, he never trained or work hard or overcome anything just had all the power handed to him. And everyone else trained, work hard, gain all their power-ups on their own merit? You know this sounds dumb right?

CxC was possible because of the adjustments that Ajuka made to his evils pieces, Penetrate seemed to come out of nowhere, DxD G was through Ophis, PDxD extended time limit and his ability to summon Ddraig was from the Amrita drink that Indra gave him, Nyuutron Beam Canon was from his grandfather.

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by syzorst

CxC was possible because of the adjustments that Ajuka made to his evils pieces, Penetrate seemed to come out of nowhere, DxD G was through Ophis, PDxD extended time limit and his ability to summon Ddraig was from the Amrita drink that Indra gave him, Nyuutron Beam Canon was from his grandfather.

Why are you responding to my comment you didn't refute anything I said? Can you say he never overcame, or trained, or worked hard?

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by TheWu8128

Why are you responding to my comment you didn't refute anything I said? Can you say he never overcame, or trained, or worked hard?

Just adding my 2 cents. I never said Ise didn't work hard.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Not really, again DxD L is just the awakening of Lucifer power mixing in with Albion's power so the potential is far less while Issei is actually given the power of infinity.

Nothing was stated she was awakening Issei's hidden power. She actually gave him the power of infinity but had to take it back because his body couldn't handle it.

Sairaorg's BxB is a collaboration technique with Regulus. Sairaorg isn't a human so he wasn't born with power of Regulus but their junction is the result of training like it is for Rias Balor form and Xenovia CDD.

Issei wouldn't even have Pseudo DxD if not for original having DxD and even then he still needed Amrita to not only extend the time limit but also allow him to summon Ddraig. Again, so many handouts that Issei didn't need to work for.

Again, that makes it worse since Vali needed assistance to use far less power than Issei.

No, she awakened the power inside of him from when his body was rebuilt.

So again, a fusion dance rather than simple outside assistance. Meaning a much more significant boost.

He got DxD as a direct result of his rebirth through Ophis and GR, which only happened because he saved Ophis at the cost of his second life. It's a "handout" in the same way Vali's natural talent is, except Issei actually did something to earn it.

If the Amrita counts as a handout then so does the lifetime of instruction Vali and Cao Cao got from their respective mentors.

[Jedsada]

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Not really, again DxD L is just the awakening of Lucifer power mixing in with Albion's power so the potential is far less while Issei is actually given the power of infinity.

Nothing was stated she was awakening Issei's hidden power. She actually gave him the power of infinity but had to take it back because his body couldn't handle it.

Sairaorg's BxB is a collaboration technique with Regulus. Sairaorg isn't a human so he wasn't born with power of Regulus but their junction is the result of training like it is for Rias Balor form and Xenovia CDD.

Issei wouldn't even have Pseudo DxD if not for original having DxD and even then he still needed Amrita to not only extend the time limit but also allow him to summon Ddraig. Again, so many handouts that Issei didn't need to work for.

Without training, Issei wouldn't be able to handle or withstand powers blessing to him. Also, those powers were granted to Issei after he had proved his worth through hard works and several near-death experiences.

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by syzorst

Just adding my 2 cents. I never said Ise didn't work hard.

Oh its fine I just don't think he should be shot bail for a couple reasons, it being wrong for one. Secondly so what? Even if you want to say that what does it matter in the grand scheme anyway? Are you going to stop reading it or something? Not like you can change it so why cry about it.

[Lord Kai]

Originally Posted by XFire

Again, that makes it worse since Vali needed assistance to use far less power than Issei.

No, she awakened the power inside of him from when his body was rebuilt.

So again, a fusion dance rather than simple outside assistance. Meaning a much more significant boost.

He got DxD as a direct result of his rebirth through Ophis and GR, which only happened because he saved Ophis at the cost of his second life. It's a "handout" in the same way Vali's natural talent is, except Issei actually did something to earn it.

If the Amrita counts as a handout then so does the lifetime of instruction Vali and Cao Cao got from their respective mentors.

How is DxD G compared to Vali's natural talent? Also how is Amrita comparable to a life time of intructions? He went from a 10 second time limit to the ability to a 88 minute time limit and ability to summon Ddraig. (Which by the way came out of nowhere)

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

How is DxD G compared to Vali's natural talent? Also how is Amrita comparable to a life time of intructions? He went from a 10 second time limit to the ability to a 88 minute time limit and ability to summon Ddraig. (Which by the way came out of nowhere)

Because it's literally something that exists inside him that he can't access normally yet, so Ophis helped pull it out. Exactly as she did Vali's own latent power.

Because it's something they got from knowing other people as opposed to their own merits?

And since you apparently forgot, the Amirita nearly killed Issei. He earned it by surviving it.

[Lord Kai]

Originally Posted by XFire

Because it's literally something that exists inside him that he can't access normally yet, so Ophis helped pull it out. Exactly as she did Vali's own latent power.

Because it's something they got from knowing other people as opposed to their own merits?

And since you apparently forgot, the Amirita nearly killed Issei. He earned it by surviving it.

He didn't train for that though since it just happen as a gift from Ophis.

Maybe you would be right if every time he used PDxD that he had a risk of dying when the time limit was up but that's not the case. The price is irrelevant because it didn't amount for anything. Also Issei didn't know Amrita had a chance to kill him before he drank it.

[Royalknightftw]

Originally Posted by syzorst

CxC was possible because of the adjustments that Ajuka made to his evils pieces, Penetrate seemed to come out of nowhere, DxD G was through Ophis, PDxD extended time limit and his ability to summon Ddraig was from the Amrita drink that Indra gave him, Nyuutron Beam Canon was from his grandfather.

CxC has always been a combination of both internal and external influence. Had issei not been able to persuade his past possessor, then Ajuka's intervention would have meant nothing. Penetrate has always been Ddraig's abilities though sealed, and Issei acquired it due to starting the whole "Boob dragon and ass dragon" fiasco ,making both ddraig and albion able to reach mutual understanding.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

He didn't train for that though since it just happen as a gift from Ophis.

Vali didn't train to be born a Lucifer either, so again, literally the same thing. Minus the fact that Issei got his because of his selfless actions and not an accident of birth.

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Maybe you would be right if every time he used PDxD that he had a risk of dying when the time limit was up but that's not the case. The price is irrelevant because it didn't amount for anything. Also Issei didn't know Amrita had a chance to kill him before he drank it.

Okay, so then everyone's training is also irrelevant since it didnt permanently cripple them.

Lol wut?

Issei overcame a trial and got stronger. The Amirita was not a free power-up.

[Parry999]

So Ingvild knows she's part devil and can live forever yet didn't have wings?

[X102reddragon]

Originally Posted by Parry999

So Ingvild knows she's part devil and can live forecer yet didn't have wings?

Her devil powers hadn’t totally awakened

[The Infinite Dream]

@Lord Kai. She didnt take the Infinite back. He still has the power within him he still cant unleash it yet.

I wore the black and crimson armor that manifested the power of a Dragon God. —Dragon Deification. It’s my strongest form. …That being said, some restrictions were applied to the chant as the power of infinity was too powerful

All he has to do is say the actual chant but he'll probably get injured again.

[Ka-el]

Originally Posted by The Infinite Dream

@Lord Kai. She didnt take the Infinite back. He still has the power within him he still cant unleash it yet.

I wore the black and crimson armor that manifested the power of a Dragon God. —Dragon Deification. It’s my strongest form. …That being said, some restrictions were applied to the chant as the power of infinity was too powerful

All he has to do is say the actual chant but he'll probably get injured again.

Ophis took the power back, it’s when her body grew up to adult size after Issei collapsed. The infinite power of Issei right now is the one he already possessed

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Not really, again DxD L is just the awakening of Lucifer power mixing in with Albion's power so the potential is far less while Issei is actually given the power of infinity.

Balberith and the fact Vali thinks he can reach Great Red debunks this.

[Lord Kai]

Originally Posted by XFire

Again, that makes it worse since Vali needed assistance to use far less power than Issei.

No, she awakened the power inside of him from when his body was rebuilt.

So again, a fusion dance rather than simple outside assistance. Meaning a much more significant boost.

He got DxD as a direct result of his rebirth through Ophis and GR, which only happened because he saved Ophis at the cost of his second life. It's a "handout" in the same way Vali's natural talent is, except Issei actually did something to earn it.

If the Amrita counts as a handout then so does the lifetime of instruction Vali and Cao Cao got from their respective mentors.

Ophis awakening it is irrelevant because it's still a handout. Issei didn't even know he had it and just to happen to be given to him by Ophis.

How is it being a fusion change the fact the technique was earned through hard work?

My previous point has been made.

Which makes zero sense because Amrita gave him unknown ability like summoning Ddraig which came out of nowhere.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Ophis awakening it is irrelevant because it's still a handout. Issei didn't even know he had it and just to happen to be given to him by Ophis.

How is it being a fusion change the fact the technique was earned through hard work?

My previous point has been made.

Which makes zero sense because Amrita gave him unknown ability like summoning Ddraig which came out of nowhere.

Yeah, no. It's something Issei recieved as a result of his actions. And you keep shifting the goalposts around to try and salvage your point, just to make things worse on yourself.

First, it being a fusion means it literally isnt that persons power and is something they themselves can't achieve. Second, Sairong and Vidar didnt train for theirs, and we're shown none of Rias' so by your logic its irrelevant.

Your point was made, dissected, and discarded as fatally flawed. Glad you've moved on though.

Oh no, the divine drink helped him overcome the divine seal keeping Ddraig locked in the SG. The seal that's been gradually unlocking this whole time as Issei develops. People were speculating about Ddraig coming out as far back as the Trihexia fight.

[Lucidrago]

Issei and Vali achieved their DxD forms in the same way. They had an emotional change of heart and they had reached the next stage since Sacred Gears respond to the possessor's feelings and desires. And Ophis just gave them her blessing to achieve those forms. But both Issei and Vali reached the point to achieve those forms on their own.

And Issei couldn't handle the full power of DxD G and the second time he used it he would have died had Ophis not taking most of the drawback from Issei using DxD G. So now Issei puts a limit on the form itself as Issei has slightly changed the chant to go into Pseudo DxD, which is a nerfed DxD G. But then again 'nerfed' doesn't mean it has a power decrease as Issei's Infinity Blaster seems as powerful as it did before in DxD G.

The reason why it seems Issei gets more handouts is because he has only been using his power for a year while the others have had several years to use and master their power. And not to mention the overpowered existences he has to fight almost all the time. So if he gets a 'handout' It's out of necessity more than anything else. Does it really matter though? Issei being very powerful is the only thing that should matter.

And Issei could have died from Amrita and there was really no guarantee it would work or that he would survive.