Log Horizon S2 - Episode 3 Discussion / Poll

[monir]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Log Horizon S2, Episode 3.

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[~Yami~]

The raid explanation is done well... The fatigue of the members are also pictured well
This episode sparks your interest to play online games again (those memories when you raid a dungeon and wiped out by raid boss)
and we got more depth about William's personality and thinking

At the end, we know more about skills and what Akatsuki is aiming for

Next episode might be more emotional than action.. although I really want to see how the raid is going to end

[DQueenie13]

"I screwed up."

"I screwed up again."

I really liked Silver Sword this episode. They were cute.

[silverexorcist]

Shiroe explained that it wasn't unusual for a raid to take a month as if it was perfectly natural, but he'd never taken part in one since the Apocalypse, had he? Does that mean he's speaking from his experiences back when he was playing behind a screen? I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of a single dungeon, even a full raid, taking that long in an MMO...

For some reason, I just enjoy looking at the Silver Sword guild members. Looking at their unique character designs is a good reminder that there are other players in the game who might be interesting aside from the main characters.

[FRS]

Originally Posted by silverexorcist

Shiroe explained that it wasn't unusual for a raid to take a month as if it was perfectly natural, but he'd never taken part in one since the Apocalypse, had he? Does that mean he's speaking from his experiences back when he was playing behind a screen? I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of a single dungeon, even a full raid, taking that long in an MMO...
...

I have not yet watched the episode but in a raid with multiples boss it's not unheard for a raid going in totaly blind to take a month to clear all the boss, it take times to learn how a boss fight.

[Benigmatica]

They done pretty well on explaining the full raid on this episode! Still, it's sucks that they're worried about their supplies.

On the other hand, it's sad that Akatsuki isn't happy without Shiroe. Then again, she's needed to fend off an intruder for next week's episode!

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by silverexorcist

Shiroe explained that it wasn't unusual for a raid to take a month as if it was perfectly natural, but he'd never taken part in one since the Apocalypse, had he? Does that mean he's speaking from his experiences back when he was playing behind a screen? I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of a single dungeon, even a full raid, taking that long in an MMO...

He's was a member of the debauchery tea party, which were a group of people (not guild) known to clear all manners of tough contents like raids.


And yeah, the top 0.1% of elite guilds aside, it's not really unheard of for guilds to take a long time clear raid contents, and this is with online guides and everything. Raids are a whole other experience from normal dungeons- it's not so much that the content is massive, but rather the difficulty is ramp up from normal dungeons.

EDIT: Not to mention real world responsibilities.

[silverexorcist]

Originally Posted by FRS

I have not yet watched the episode but in a raid with multiples boss it's not unheard for a raid going in totaly blind to take a month to clear all the boss, it take times to learn how a boss fight.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

He's was a member of the debauchery tea party, which were a group of people (not guild) known to clear all manners of tough contents like raids.


And yeah, the top 0.1% of elite guilds aside, it's not really unheard of for guilds to take a long time clear raid contents, and this is with online guides and everything. Raids are a whole other experience from normal dungeons- it's not so much that the content is massive, but rather the difficulty is ramp up from normal dungeons.

I understand that Shiroe has been on raids before--the problem is the length of time to complete it once. So, what, when it was still just a game they stayed logged in for months at a time just to complete the dungeon? Trying, failing, and restarting the raid as they learn is one thing, and makes perfect sense, but unless Elder Tales is different, ever member of the raid would literally be keeping their computers running as they keep their characters in the dungeon, since logging out would get them kicked out of the instance area. The concept just really sounds like something reasonable only now that they're physically trapped in the game.

If the people playing Elder Tales are really that dedicated, then I redirect you to the impressed fascination in my earlier comment. Elder Tales has more epic hardcore content than I realized. Culls the number of casuals who can get into the endgame content, but it makes me wish I could play even more.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by silverexorcist

Shiroe explained that it wasn't unusual for a raid to take a month as if it was perfectly natural, but he'd never taken part in one since the Apocalypse, had he? Does that mean he's speaking from his experiences back when he was playing behind a screen? I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of a single dungeon, even a full raid, taking that long in an MMO...

For some reason, I just enjoy looking at the Silver Sword guild members. Looking at their unique character designs is a good reminder that there are other players in the game who might be interesting aside from the main characters.

It is completely normal when raiding a new expansion.

In WoW how long was it until world first kill of Ragnaros after Firelands came out? That's right, TWENTY days.
And that was just a major patch update, not even an expansion!!

Everyone that follows after that defeats the boss faster and faster as information is revealed and gear progresses.
But Shiroe & Co are going into uncharted raids, without any post-expansion raid gears. This is exactly world first kill on an expansion is like.

[Village Idiot]

As a former MMO raid fanatic...

That. Was. Awesome!!!

Captured the aspect of raiding perfectly.

As for the amount of time it takes to clear raids, its true that some can take up to a month, especially if your guild encounters a "wall" they simply cannot clear.

For example, Vaelastrasz...

That raid boss was legendary for destroying guilds, both in battle, and causing them to literally break up.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by silverexorcist

I understand that Shiroe has been on raids before--the problem is the length of time to complete it once. So, what, when it was still just a game they stayed logged in for months at a time just to complete the dungeon? Trying, failing, and restarting the raid as they learn is one thing, and makes perfect sense, but unless Elder Tales is different, ever member of the raid would literally be keeping their computers running as they keep their characters in the dungeon, since logging out would get them kicked out of the instance area. The concept just really sounds like something reasonable only now that they're physically trapped in the game.

If the people playing Elder Tales are really that dedicated, then I redirect you to the impressed fascination in my earlier comment. Elder Tales has more epic hardcore content than I realized. Culls the number of casuals who can get into the endgame content, but it makes me wish I could play even more.

Lol no Raid instance progress are saved to the Raid group, that means you can log out and still come back to where you last left off so long as you're in the same Raid group.

Every week the instance would refresh itself so that's your time limit.

[silverexorcist]

That's even more unlikely. If the instances refreshes every week, then how on earth would you spend an entire month in them on average?

[aohige]

Originally Posted by silverexorcist

That's even more unlikely. If the instances refreshes every week, then how on earth would you spend an entire month in them on average?

Raid refreshes for the sake of people who completed it.
If you're in a middle of one, you can let it stay the same so you can pick up where you left off.

It's a "time limit" as in, if you don't finish the whole raid before next week, you wasted 1 full clear of raid.
Because if you had finished the raid in the first week, you can clear the raid again next week.

silver, I don't think you understand how instanced raids work.
I've raided as a main tank and a officer for raid team in a guild for couple of years, and we raided every single week.
This anime represented it quite well.

It takes month, sometimes two, for a new top-difficulty raid to be first completed after an expansion or a patch is released.
And now that "game is real" and they have NO help from computers, no hate counters, cooldown timers, NOTHING, on top of FEELING PAIN and actual sense present, it's a wonder to even finish the raid in the same time as video games.
I wouldn't be surprised if it took months, or even half a year, taking it as short as a month or so is actually quite a feat.

[Raviel]

Originally Posted by silverexorcist

That's even more unlikely. If the instances refreshes every week, then how on earth would you spend an entire month in them on average?

I think he meant the entire month included all the entering/re-entering, dying, and what not.

[Village Idiot]

Originally Posted by silverexorcist

That's even more unlikely. If the instances refreshes every week, then how on earth would you spend an entire month in them on average?

Basically your guild has to be good enough to clear them in a fast, efficient manner.

Its common for a raid guild to be stuck on a particular boss for weeks to months before they figure out how to defeat it.

After a while, it can reach the point where you just steam roll everything up to the boss your stuck on in less than a day.

Also a lot of raid bosses are cleared much faster these days due to beta testing and wikis.

Basically, someone had to have written up the wiki with boss stratagies, and it required hours and hours of deaths and more in-game money than you've ever seen in equipment repairs.

[silverexorcist]

Ah, I see where the misunderstanding is. I'm not saying that I'm surprised that they're taking so long for this one raid. I understand that it's their first time challenging this dungeon that's clearly new content. Trying again and again and learning with every try, no matter how long it takes, is one of the better sides of games after all. The problem is, Shiroe said that it's pretty much the norm to take a month on full raids, no mention of whether it was the first time or not. Plus, they haven't been going in and out--they finished two bosses and have been wandering the instance since, looking for the third one. Or else they would just restock their dwindling supplies before entering the dungeon again. I was pointing out that the average time per raid in Elder Tales is clearly on a different scale than other MMOs, which I found weird, since all previous aspects of the game seemed to be pretty casual friendly.

[Vash1306]

Loved this episode, explained raiding very well. Being a former WoW player, it makes me want to raid again. But I don't think I have it in me to to progression raid again. :P

[Sheba]

Were instances in Everquest? IIRC Elder Tales IS based on Touno's experiences in Everquest, so we may try approaching Elder Tales differently from WoW, FFXIV or RO.

[Random Wanderer]

I have never done raiding in MMOs, so I'm afraid that part couldn't strike a chord with me, although it certainly comes across as impressive, and makes sense compared with things I've heard.

Really, what got to me in this episode wasn't actually in this episode at all, but in the preview. It talks about Akatsuki wandering Akiba, uncertain and alone, and Lenessia giving up, believing that People of the Land and Adventurers cannot understand each other. That is incredibly disheartening to me, and made the tagline from Shiroe at the end strike home all the more. "Rise up once more."

Do not abandon your purpose, Princess. What you are doing is worth doing: you know it is. However worn down you may become by your repeated failure to understand them, you must not give up. Please, stand up once again, and continue to push forward.

(PS: And please convince the artists to give you back your pupils, so you stop looking like an animated doll or something. It feels like they're trying to imply you're not a real person, and it's really bothering me.)

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Were instances in Everquest? IIRC Elder Tales IS based on Touno's experiences in Everquest, so we may try approaching Elder Tales differently from WoW, FFXIV or RO.

The dungeon they're in is limited to entry of 24 people, so I would expect it to be instanced, yes.
Otherwise it would make no sense from game POV