Utawarerumono Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[Srin Tuar]

Originally Posted by Zaris

- (my initial interpretation) Eruruu never saw a connection between Hakuoro and the entity. Her body is bound to the being, which means she can't devote herself to the one she desires most, which is Hakuoro. Yuzuha told us what she wanted, and Urutorii said that it was ok for Eruruu to do what she wants. With that, she joins Hakuoro in his room.
- (this is the most likely answer) Eruruu sees a connection between Hakuoro and the entity. But because she is bound to him and for reasons of inappropriateness, she is unable to identify and express her true feelings for him. Not after Yuzuha tells Eruruu what it is she wants and Urutorii telling her it is okay for her to follow her heart that the young girl goes to Hakuoro and puts her body against him.

Hmm, Its nothing that dramatic. What I gather is that
Eruru has always liked Hakuoro, but once she learns that she he is the one
she is bound to by her promise, she can't help but feel trapped by the loss
of her freedom of choice. (its like aruru is a hostage to keep her with him)

Hakuoro made that feeling especially acute when he asked her to always
stay by his side. She probably heard it as him reminding her of her contract.
(I think he's not fully aware of it yet, so he didnt know it would touch a nerve)

However, Urutori told her that her heart belongs to her, no matter what
contracts with whatever gods she was bound by, its something that only
she can give. (so he owns her body and soul by contract, but her heart
is her own to give or deny)

So Eruru no longer felt trapped, and could simply be content about her
feelings again.

Yuzuha was especially poetic

[Zaris]

Originally Posted by Srin Tuar

Hmm, Its nothing that dramatic. What I gather is that
Eruruu has always liked Hakuoro, but once she learns that he is the one
she is bound to by her promise, she can't help but feel trapped by the loss
of her freedom of choice. (its like Aruruu is a hostage to keep her with him)

Hakuoro made that feeling especially acute when he asked her to always
stay by his side. She probably heard it as him reminding her of her contract.
(I think he's not fully aware of it yet, so he didnt know it would hit a nerve)

However, Urutorii told Eruruu that her heart belongs to her, no matter what
contracts with whatever gods she was bound by, its something that only
she can give. (so he owns her body and soul by contract, but her heart
is her own to give or deny)

So Eruruu no longer felt trapped, and could simply be content about her
feelings again.

I think you put it over the top.

You helped me clarify a very important detail - especially making clearer the thing Hakuoro asks Eruruu everytime she was tending to his injuries in this episode. Like, I KNEW he was asking her something very important, but I couldn't quite put my finger on what it was. If what you're saying is correct, that Hakuoro unsuspectedly reminded her of the contract in that first incident, which rubbed salt on her wound, then I think that answers many of the doubts I've had over the past 24 hours.

The other thing you've helped clarify is separating the three nouns apart - body, soul, heart. I was under the impression that the human heart and soul were the same thing, but I can see now they're not. Reviewing episode 22, there is no mention of heart - only soul and body. So if you can't separate the 3 like I did, then it's just amass of confusion.

A body is the physical structure and material substance of a person. The soul, according to wikipedia, is a self-aware ethereal substance particular to a unique living being, incorperating the inner essence of each being (essentially marking sentience). The heart, however, is the source of all emotion, the seat of all joy and sadness. It is not a subtance per say that can be controlled (most cases, anyway). So obviously after doing some research, they're not the same.

So putting together Srin Tuar's interpretation and my newfound revelation, it sounds to me like she was feeling coersed in some way, forced into unconditional servitude. And when Hakuoro struck that nerve that evening by asking her to stay by him always, it made things totally worse. It was all she could think about, and the more she thought about it, the worse she got. Yuzuha tells us, the audience, what her heart desires, but Eruruu doesn't want it to be a forced, meaningless relationship. It's after Urutorii telling her that her heart is her own that reminds Eruruu that she DOES has a choice - the choice to make something special happen with her unique, unobtainable heart. And indeed, she does follow her heart, and this time the same question posed onto her doesn't affect her the way it did the first time. She says "yes" because it is what she wants, not what she must do.

I personally felt that Hakuoro has given Eruruu a lot of freedom over the course of the series, consciously or unconsciously. But I suppose being forced to surrender a portion of herself is that serious to her. Maybe just being reassured that she does have a choice is enough for her. Maybe, JUST MAYBE...she had forgotten.

In short, this episode was all about doing something without a purpose and doing something with meaning and heart. Hence the title.

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Originally Posted by Key Board

I think you're putting too much emphasis on Eruru x Hakuoro which I don't think what this story is about.

I will admit that I put a lot of 'wishful thinking' on the Eruruu/Hakuoro relationship. But I disagree with the fact that Utawarerumono isn't about Hakuoro and Eruruu. It is most definately about them. EVERY episode has featured them talking to or about each other at least once (Aruruu was not present for any V.A. on episode 7).

Now you could argue that the only principle protagonist in the series is Hakuoro. He is the man in the mask that doesn't know his past, his origin, his power. This is a 26-episode quest for identity, you could say. The problem here is that all the antagonists that try and impose their will upon him keeps dying (minus Dii, but they haven't even met yet), so there's no lasting dramatic effect. Drama normally involves a conflict between people; therefore you need at least two lasting characters, and Eruruu fits that role. In cases where only one person is in a dramatic scene and no other characters are present, it is usually the environment that plays the role of antagonist. But it's pretty obvious that this isn't Hakuoro vs. Utawarerumono because the environment isn't out to get him.

You could also say that this is a story about war, but it's not. War is one of the genres here, but we're not being fed lessons about warfare or the consequences of taking another life every single episode. No, we're learning something about Hakuoro and Eruruu every week. They're talking to another, smiling and hugging each other. There are moments of conflict between the two, and conflict is drama. Action (beit physical or emotional) is character, and character is the foundation of any story.

Utawarerumono is about Hakuoro and Eruruu.

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My synopsis has been adjusted. Thanks so much, Srin Tuar.

[Grey]

Originally Posted by Zaris

A body is the physical structure and material substance of a person. The soul, according to wikipedia, is a self-aware ethereal substance particular to a unique living being, incorperating the inner essence of each being (essentially marking sentience). The heart, however, is the source of all emotion, the seat of all joy and sadness. It is not a subtance per say that can be controlled (most cases, anyway). So obviously after doing some research, they're not the same.

A legitimate category distinction, although there are other ways to draw the line. If the 'soul' is emphasized as containing the core character of a person (everything that makes them 'them'--ie. their personality), then this would include their emotional tendencies. If the body is emphasized, then emotions may be reduced to the processes of the brain; 'heart' becomes simply a metaphor with no actual place in defining a person.

Then there's the point that the japanese terms translated as 'soul' and 'body' do not hold the same distinction with the term 'heart' that english has. ('Soul' and 'heart' may be overlapping in connotation).

-------

In other news, I'm relatively disappointed that the Yuzuha-Hakuoro relation probably won't happen. It certainly would have been...an interesting twist, and I've always thought of it as a nice finishing touch on Yuzuha's story.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Originally Posted by Grey

In other news, I'm relatively disappointed that the Yuzuha-Hakuoro relation probably won't happen. It certainly would have been...an interesting twist, and I've always thought of it as a nice finishing touch on Yuzuha's story.

Yeah its a bitter sweat story, typically Japanese, it's a shame we won't see that. but then if we could change the ending i would rather go with a touka/Kakura ending

dammn must ge the game....

[Key Board]

On another note, Dii is voiced by Char Aznable

Or if you don't know who that is, Gilbert Durandal

AWESOME

[Zaris]

Dii has a cool voice (V.A. by Shūichi Ikeda), but I think it's oddly deep for a character that looks so young (but heck, he could be very very old for all we know). No wrinkles, no blemishes. Probably uses a lot of women's makeup products. :O

On yet ANOTHER note, you'd think Touka and Genjimaru would be happy to see a member of their own kind again, but nothing has come of them yet. Hopefully the next episode will. = |

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Key Board

On another note, Dii is voiced by Char Aznable

Or if you don't know who that is, Gilbert Durandal

AWESOME

9 out of 10 times the character he voice is evil

[saravis]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

9 out of 10 times the character he voice is evil

So what is the other 1 out of 10

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by saravis

So what is the other 1 out of 10

Shouka,

Shuurei's father in Saiunkoku Monogatari. He is the royal librarian.

[ChainLegacy]

This episode was a beast, despite the fact that none of the characters actually fought (except for some Genjimaru ownage). The flashback with unthawed Hakuoro and Mikoto was pretty interesting, and I now have some new ideas and theories for the storyline. Any anime that makes me seriously contemplate and theorize the plot is win.

[d1no]

Yea this episode was a BEAST they smashed and are gunna continue to smash and just BEAST around.

[Hazardous]

I do agree with D1no, however I do also belive that it is a BEAST because it can smash.

[vietpimp]

Anyone else got this feeling that Genjimaru will betray them sooner or later?

Maybe I'm just weird but from the conversation he hadd with Dii I think that he will betray the group.

[Deathkillz]

^ thats is wht i though...hes acting too good to be true...it has to be some soret of trap IMO

i liked this ep and yea there is the question of where is that place in hakuoro's flashback >.<!!!

awh and eruruu needs some love shes feeling left out imo

[Cardiac Glycoside]

Eruruu needs to shop around for better male lovers or become lesbian. Her date history is pretty bad, when you consider it:

Nuwangi--became a gov't employee and an asshole.
Hakuoro--became THE gov't employee, calls her sister/mother, and made Eruruu his bitch.

We are all joyfully anticipating a threeway with Karura and Urutorii.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Cardiac Glycoside

Eruruu needs to shop around for better male lovers or become lesbian. Her date history is pretty bad, when you consider it:

Nuwangi--became a gov't employee and an asshole.
Hakuoro--became THE gov't employee, calls her sister/mother, and made Eruruu his bitch.

We are all joyfully anticipating a threeway with Karura and Urutorii.

Threeway? You think too small.

Fourway with Touka, Urutorii and Karura

[Cardiac Glycoside]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

Threeway? You think too small.

Fourway with Touka, Urutorii and Karura

Touka is IMHO the odd (even?) one out in this case because she hasn't interacted much with Erururutorii (besides for a few seconds in ep. 14) and she seemingly resents Karura.

Perhaps her three way is with Aruruu and Gachatara. *insert various outrage here*

[Deathkillz]

its true that touka doesnt get enough of the spot light...but still she deservers better than aruruu and gachatara in her 3 way -.-

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Cardiac Glycoside

Touka is IMHO the odd (even?) one out in this case because she hasn't interacted much with Erururutorii (besides for a few seconds in ep. 14) and she seemingly resents Karura.

opposites attract.

Perphas Touka's resentment is a manfestation of her attraction to Karura. Karura probably have no problems with it

[jtrog]

I liked the ep 23 a whole lot. It filled in possibly some unknown info. But most of all was the ending area where

Spoiler for eruruu asks him to repeat :

'I wish for a goddess like you to be with me forever,,, Keichii! Belldandy KieChii! ... Lmao. I replayed that part and spoke the words and it looked like it fit as she said it.

It really was a cool show. 10+