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Old 2020-11-03, 06:02   Link #1
Garr
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Join Date: Mar 2011
The Invasions of Shikoku, Kyushu, and Ryukyu by the Industrial Japanese Empire

From 1585-1609, Toyotomi Hideyoshi led the Japanese Empire in expeditions to invade and conquer the small kingdoms and tribes in the islands south of the Imperial Japanese Mainland.

In 1585, Shikoku Island was occupied by the Japanese Empire in a campaign of imperial expansion led by Toyotomi Hideyoshi.

Toyotomi Hideyoshi went to Shikoku with a large army and navy consisiting of 113,000 men and 703 battleships. By this time, the Japanese already had sail powered junk ships armed with large caliber arquebuses and cannons that were later called Red Seal Ships in 1592 by Toyotomi Hideyoshi and even ironclad battleships called Atakebune and Atakemaru that were also armed with large caliber arquebuses and cannons which were designed and comissioned by Daimyo Oda Nobunaga and Fleet Admiral Mukai Shōgen Tadakatsu for Tokugawa Hidetada and Tokugawa Iemitsu. The Japanese also learned how to make gunpowder through trade with the Chinese Empire and possessed the following weapons:

Fire Gourd
Fire Lance
Muzzle Loading Hand Cannon Gun
Wick Fired Muzzle Loading Cannon
Howitzer
Mortar
Breech Loading Swivel Cannon
Wick Ignited Explosive Shell
Wick Ignited Hand Grenade
Smoke Bomb
Stink Bomb
Toxic Vapor Bomb
Signal Flare
Coil Wick Ignited Landmine
Time Fused Water Mine
Multiple Rocket Launcher
Portable Multiple Rocket Launcher
Solid Shot Rocket
Solid Rocket Fuel
Rocket-Bomb
Multi-Stage Rocket
Matchlock Pistol
Matchlock Musket
Matchlock Arquebus
Matchlock Fire Arrow Arquebus
Fire Arrow Howitzer
Fire Arrow Mortar

Below is an image of a Japanese Red Seal Battleship:



Below is an image of a Japanese Atakebune Ironclad Battleship:

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Below are images of Japanese Matchlock Muskets and Matchlock Arquebuses called Tanegashima:



Below are images of Japanese Matchlock Fire Arrow Arquebuses called Hiya Zutsu, Fire Arrow Howitzers called Bo-Hiya, and Fire Arrow Mortars called Hiya Taihou:



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Below is an image of a Japanese Breech Loading Swivel Cannon:

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Below is an image of a Japanese Wick Ignited Hand Grenade:



Within a span of only 3 months, the 113,000 Imperial Soldiers defeated a total of 40,000 soldiers coming from the small kingdoms and tribes in Shikoku Island.

Toyotomi Hideyoshi then launched an invasion of Kyushu in 1586-1587 and defeated the small kingdoms and tribes in the island, numbering 30,000 soldiers, with a superior force of 200,000 Imperial Soldiers armed with ordinance.

Toyotomi Hideyoshi again launched another invasion in 1609 of the small kingdom of Ryukyu in the southernmost tip of the Japanese archipelago. He went to the islands with a fleet of 100 battleships and 3,000 soldiers and defeated the technologically inferior Ryukyuans using ordinance.

After the conquest of the southern island kingdoms and tribes in Shikoku, Kyushu and Ryukyu, Toyotomi Hideyoshi ordered the confiscation of all of the weapons and armor of the enemy soldiers and prohibited the civilians of the occupied territories from possessing armor and weapons which include bladed close combat weapons such as daggers, swords, spears, and bladed staffs, projectile weapons such as reflex bows, guns, cannons, and rocket launchers, and explosives such as fire jars, grenades, smoke bombs, and landmines.

Because of the prohibition on owning any weapon and armor, the subjects of the small kingdoms and indigenous tribes developed martial arts to defend themselves without the aid of weapons and the protection of armor. This is where martial arts like, Aikido, Iaido, Judo, Karate, Kendo, Kyūdō, Shorinji, Kempo, and Sumo originated.

The Japanese Imperial Soldiers on the other hand trained in hand-to-hand combat and weapons techniques that were designed for killing opponents either unarmed or armed and only the personnel of the Imperial Government such as the Samurai, Ninja, and Shinsengumi were allowed to study these techniques, called Ko-budō, which include Battōjutsu, Bōjutsu, Hojōjutsu, Iaijutsu, Jōjutsu, Jujutsu, Jittejutsu, Kenjutsu, Kyūjutsu, Naginatajutsu, Ninjutsu, Shurikenjutsu, and Sōjutsu. During training the soldiers were dressed in lacquered armor which is comprised of helmets, face masks or grid iron face masks, breastplates, and hip guards, and underneath the armor they wore silk coats, britches, and boots.


Below are images of Prince Yamato Takeru in Imperial Uniform:






Below is an image of the Imperial Japanese Soldiers wearing the Imperial Uniform with lacquered armor and firing Tanegashima Guns:



By the time of the invasion of the southern islands, the Japanese had upgraded their factory mills and now had watermills and windmills in addition to their water scoop mills which allowed them to mass produce goods at an even greater scale. Aside from forge mills used to mass produce metal, sawmills used to mass produce wood, stamp mills used to process mined ore, fullers used to make wool textiles, and pottery mills used to make pottery, the Japanese now had the following mill factories:

Noodle Extruder - used for mass producing noodles.

Smokehouse - used for mass producing smoked food that does not easily spoil.

Spinning Wheel - used to spin fabrics for mass producing textiles.

Hammer Mill - used for mass producing clay, stone, metal and other materials.

Hulling Mill - used for hulling rice.

Gristmill - used for grinding grains into flour.

Ore Mill - used for processing ore.

Bellow - used for blowing air into blast furnaces.

Paper Mill - used for mass producing paper.

Hand Hulling Mill - a portable device for hulling rice.

Hand Gristmill - a portable device for grinding grains.

Edge Mill - uses a rolling stone revolving around a central power shaft to grind various materials. It is especially useful for mass producing oil from plant and animal parts.

Oil Mill - uses an edge mill to mass produce oil, including cooking oil.


Below is a video of a Noodle Extruder in action:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Peng_Zhou.ogv


Below is an image of a Japanese Watermill:



Below is an image of Japanese Windmill:



Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Shikoku_(1585)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABsh%C5%AB_campaign
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Ryukyu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_seal_ships
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atakebune
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanegashima_(gun)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo-hiya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chongtong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_arrow
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_lance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillery_of_Japan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobud%C5%8D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato_Takeru
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chines...les#Production
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F..._panoramio.jpg
https://twitter.com/PeterIntheswim/s...52233645293568 (Japanese Windmill)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cd-V7MfXIAESFkt.jpg (Japanese Windmill)
https://www.windmillworld.com/world/japan.htm
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Last edited by Garr; 2024-02-09 at 14:48. Reason: added images tag
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Old 2020-11-06, 23:58   Link #2
Cosmic Eagle
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None of these people except Yamato Takeru can even be considered "imperial."

And Yamato Takeru is over 600 years before Hideyoshi in a time when Japan was semi-theocratic so he has nothing to do with this period.
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Old 2020-11-07, 02:21   Link #3
Garr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
None of these people except Yamato Takeru can even be considered "imperial."

And Yamato Takeru is over 600 years before Hideyoshi in a time when Japan was semi-theocratic so he has nothing to do with this period.
The fact is that Japan was an Empire since it was founded in 660 BCE by its 1st Emperor Jimmu.

Though there were periods of rule by Shoguns, who are military dictators rather than emperors, Japan is still an Empire throughout its history because it conquered neighboring kingdoms and tribes to expand its territory.

The 1st conquests occurred when Jimmu defeated several small kingdoms and tribes and occupied the whole island of Honshu and this became the mainland of the Empire.

Then in 658-660, General Abe no Hirafu occupied the island of Hokkaido, defeating the Mishihase tribes living there and annexing the island.

https://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=155521

From 1585-1609, Toyotomi Hideyoshi then launched an expedition to occupy the southern islands of Shikoku, Kyushu, and the Ryukyu Kingdom.

The conquests of the southern islands occurred at the same time as the invasion of Korea in 1592 by the Japanese Empire.

https://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=154680

In 1697, Japan became even more powerful when the rice merchants created the Dojima Rice Exchange, which is the world's 1st market for buying and selling goods using futures contracts. The high productivity of the farms owned by these rice merchants, who even possessed hullers to mass produce rice on an industrial scale, and the increased profits resulting from the Dojima Rice Exchange, allowed the Merchants to grow so powerful that they monopolized the rice industry.

https://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=155993
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Old 2020-11-07, 03:04   Link #4
Cosmic Eagle
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Empire when applied to Japan has a very specific meaning, ie rule by the Yamato dynasty.

And if you would include Yamato Takeru to give the impression the Imperial house had anything to do with Hideyoshi's decisions.....That's inaccurate. Also "industrial Japanese Empire" is a weird way to put things given that Japan's development wasn't any more or less than the Chinese next door. It was just far more militarized during the 1500s given it had spent a century at civil war. You make it sound as if Meiji era industrialization applied throughout its entire history. Or that Japan was somehow more warlike than the other Asian powers (not so.....Japan in fact before the 1500s was a relatively minor power compared to continental Asia).
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Old 2020-11-07, 03:13   Link #5
Garr
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Empire here has a very specific meaning, ie rule by the Yamato dynasty. Otherwise practically every country in existence is an empire even present day Japan
An empire is a sovereign state that consists of several formerly independent states that were invaded, occupied, and are then subject to a single ruling authority from the invading state. The ruler may be an emperor, or a dictator such as a Shogun.

The many kingdoms and tribes in Honshu, Hokkaido, Shikoku, Kyushu, and the Ryukyu Kingdom were once independent until they were invaded and conquered by the Japanese Empire.

Japan even attempted to invade Korea but they failed despite their numerical and technological superiority because the Koreans sought military support from the Chinese Empire.

Though the aid from the Chinese Empire would come at a great cost, because the Chinese Empire, under Emperor Hong Taiji, would later invade Korea and force it to become a tributary state, that is, a state that is mandated by the law of the occupying forces to pay a tribute, using a percentage of their tax revenue as the payment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
And if you would include Yamato Takeru to give the impression the Imperial house had anything to do with Hideyoshi's decisions.....That's inaccurate. Also "industrial Japanese Empire" is a weird way to put things given that Japan's development wasn't any more or less than the Chinese next door. It was just far more militarized during the 1500s given it had spent a century at civil war. You make it sound as if Meiji era industrialization applied throughout its entire history. Or that Japan was somehow more warlike than the other Asian powers (not so.....Japan in fact before the 1500s was a relatively minor power compared to continental Asia).
I did not say that Yamato Takeru and Toyotomi Hideyoshi lived in the same time period, and it was not just Japan that was industrialized and militarized, the whole of Asia and Europe was industrialized and militarized. The Asians and Europeans used animal mill, watermill, windmill factories, blast furnaces, and oil refineries to mass produce goods on an industrial scale.

The Asian and European Empires also had other advanced structures like the Stonehenge astronomical calendar, farms, ranches, agricultural terraces, aquaculture centers, cisterns, apartment blocks, animal mill, watermill, and windmill factories, blast furnaces, oil refineries, roads, highways, cantilever bridges, drawbridges, suspension bridges, causeways, mass transit in the form of chariots, rickshaws, hand carts, carts, carriages, wagons, ferry rafts, ferry boats, and ocean going ships, telecommunications in the form of signal horns, signal trumpets, smoke signals, zoetropes, bells, and semaphore flags, computers such as the suanpan, also known as the abacus, siege machines such as the battering ram, mobile siege ladder, mobile moat crossing bridge, armored siege tower, ballista, and catapult, oar powered battleships armed with catapults, incendiary bombs such as the fire jar, fire pot, and fire stone, and even artificial islands that were used as commercial and naval relay stations for ships.

Here is a list of Asian Empires:

China
Egypt
India
Persia
Japan
Mongolia
Islamic Caliphate
Tibet
Khmer
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Old 2020-11-07, 03:31   Link #6
Cosmic Eagle
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Or a sovereign state ruled by an emperor. Generally empires that follow your given definition have distinct heterogeneous cultures and nations under them, like the British, Mongols, Chinese, Xiongnu, Tibetans etc.

Yamato expansion meanwhile effectively subsumes the conquered tribes into a single national identity. And these days, Empire of Japan generally refers to the state from the Meiji era to end of WWII or at the very least when the emperors actually have control
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Old 2020-11-07, 03:51   Link #7
Garr
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Or a sovereign state ruled by an emperor. Generally empires that follow your given definition have distinct heterogeneous cultures and nations under them, like the British, Mongols, Chinese, Xiongnu, Tibetans etc.

Yamato expansion meanwhile effectively subsumes the conquered tribes into a single national identity. And these days, Empire of Japan generally refers to the state from the Meiji era to end of WWII or at the very least when the emperors actually have control
Assimilation is a very good idea, because of assimilation, the countries that were empires in the past still exist today despite some of them losing territory, with their culture, knowledge, and technological infrastructure completely intact and their economies have kept on growing to the point that some countries are already making trillions of dollars in GDP a year.

A negative side effect of continuous human scientific and technological progress is overpopulation: the population soared to 1 billion by 1800, 2 billion by 1900, 6 billion by 2000, and 7.8 billion as of 2020.

We really need population control if we are to reduce the depletion of the world's natural resources and pollution.

This especially applies to Asia which already has a population of 4.6 billion and has thick clouds of smog all over its ancient cities because of thousands of years of burning fuel for light, cooking, heat, and industry and recently for electricity and motor vehicles.
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Old 2020-11-07, 04:42   Link #8
Cosmic Eagle
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
 
 
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Nevertheless, total assimilation where factional identites were subsumed under a greater nation rarely happened with the polities commonly defined as "empires" purely because short of genocide you will not stamp out a people's beliefs and practices. In fact the tribes that were totally assimilated into the Yamato identity still retained their local practices which can be seen today in different local shinto shrines and their related lore and customs

And if total assimilation has occured you are no longer an empire or confederacy but rather a kingdom, republic, khanate, junta etc

Japan is an empire rather than a kingdom simply because it has an emperor in charge. Even the times when shoguns ruled were called bakufu rather than teitoku

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garr View Post


The Asian and European Empires also had other advanced structures like farms, ranches, agricultural terraces, aquaculture centers, apartment blocks, roads, highways, drawbridges, suspension bridges, causeways, ocean going ships, and even artificial islands that were used as commercial and naval relay stations for ships.

Here is a list of Asian Empires:

China
Egypt
India
Persia
Japan
Mongolia
Islamic Caliphate
Tibet
Khmer
Which is why calling Japan "the industrial empire" is a bit weird because it isn't unique in this regard. Unless you meant to highlight Japan's economic growth throughout the ages which is impressive but still par for the course in Asia

Quote:
We really need population control if we are to reduce the depletion of the world's natural resources and pollution.
Modern lifestyle is taking care of that just fine. If you read the recent paper in the Lancet, by 2100 most of the developed countries including upcoming ones like India will be full of elderly. The real question for everyone is if quality of life improvements can keep up
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Old 2020-11-07, 05:14   Link #9
Garr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Nevertheless, total assimilation where factional identites were subsumed under a greater nation rarely happened with the polities commonly defined as "empires" purely because short of genocide you will not stamp out a people's beliefs and practices. In fact the tribes that were totally assimilated into the Yamato identity still retained their local practices which can be seen today in different local shinto shrines and their related lore and customs

And if total assimilation has occured you are no longer an empire or confederacy but rather a kingdom, republic, khanate, junta etc

Japan is an empire rather than a kingdom simply because it has an emperor in charge. Even the times when shoguns ruled were called bakufu rather than teitoku
That is true, the empires in history never completely erased the superstitious practices of the tribes and kingdoms that they conquered. Though the Asian and European empires all did missionary work to spread organized religion, the superstitious practices of the conquered peoples were mixed with the religions, creating a hybrid of superstitious and religious traditions that still persist to this day.

Here is a list of great religions and the powerful empires that practiced religious imperialism:

Indian Empire:

Hinduism
Jainism
Buddhism
Sikhism

Chinese Empire:

Shenism
Confucianism
Taoism

Persian Empire:

Zoroastrianism

Japanese Empire:

Shintoism

Catholicism:

French Empire
1st German Reich
Viking Empire
Spanish Empire
Portuguese Empire

Orthodox Christianity:

Moravian Empire
Bulgarian Empire
Georgian Empire
Russian Empire

Islamic Caliphate

Buddhist Empires:

Tibetan Empire
Khmer Empire
Kingdom of Thailand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Which is why calling Japan "the industrial empire" is a bit weird because it isn't unique in this regard. Unless you meant to highlight Japan's economic growth throughout the ages which is impressive but still par for the course in Asia
Considering that Japan already had ironclad battleships called Atakebune and Atakemaru that were armed with large caliber arquebuses and cannons by the 1500s and futures contracts and agricultural monopolies by 1697, and has the 3rd highest GDP in the world today at 5 trillion dollars a year, I would say that their continuous industrial growth is impressive for such a small nation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Modern lifestyle is taking care of that just fine. If you read the recent paper in the Lancet, by 2100 most of the developed countries including upcoming ones like India will be full of elderly. The real question for everyone is if quality of life improvements can keep up
People need to avoid substance abuse to prevent health problems that will cost the social welfare systems of developed countries should they fall ill in later life as a result of addictions and seek free healthcare, and also avoid overspending so that they can save enough money for emergencies.
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