Archer - discuss Ep. 14 hints

[Archer]

Originally Posted by riznar

Archer,

Spoiler for just in case:

So Heroic Spirit EMIYA as you put it has all of the abilities of every Shirou from every timeline?

Spoiler:

No.

Not every Shirou becomes a Heroic Spirit, obviously. There are certain requirements that must be fulfilled.

[sniperz]

countless emiyas setlling the holy grail war? ;p

they nid deep explanatation on those too !!

yea since archer already knew.. does tat mean this is like part of the life cycle of their world? yea we need infos on that

[chImp]

Is there an English version of the game by the way? I only stumbled upon Japanese versions, which I cannot understand.

[Hemisphere]

No english version.

Spoiler:

Every EMIYA that fulfills the Heroic Spirits requirement doesn't become a heroic spirit entity of their own - they just get imprinted onto the existing EIREI EMIYA that is within the Holy Grail. Think of it as additional data being added onto an already existing program.

[Mandrake]

I wonder, did the future emiya participate in the same war they were in now? If so..who did he see as Rin's servant, also himself?

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Mandrake

I wonder, did the future emiya participate in the same war they were in now? If so..who did he see as Rin's servant, also himself?

Future Shirou's (Archer) past in the war was not the same one in every detail to what we're seeing now.

[ChainLegacy]

Spoiler for Archer and Shirou:

I read somewhere that by the end of the War the Shirou from this timeline surpasses the 'Archer version' of Shirou in terms of power. Is this true? I know it could be, since Archer is from a parallel timeline.

Originally Posted by IMSabbel

what i REALLY wonder:

If, for summoning reasons, a connection between the original soul of the servant helps to select who gets whom (like using berserkers club), why

Spoiler:

did shirou get anybody else than archer? what bigger connection than actually being your servant could there be?

I would also like to hear an answer to this question, if there is one.

[Archer]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Spoiler for Archer and Shirou:

I read somewhere that by the end of the War the Shirou from this timeline surpasses the 'Archer version' of Shirou in terms of power. Is this true? I know it could be, since Archer is from a parallel timeline.

I would also like to hear an answer to this question, if there is one.

Telling you the answer to this question will give away the secret to Saber's summoning.

[ChainLegacy]

Okay, do you know the answer to my other question, then?

[Archer]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Okay, do you know the answer to my other question, then?

Depends on which Shirou you're talking about.

Spoiler:

Fate Shirou (the Shirou that most resembles the anime Shirou) will probably not surpass Archer. UBW Shirou will, most likely. HF Shirou does not survive to surpass Archer.

[MiniTeddy]

from what i know

Spoiler:

Archer is Shriou i worked this out because well it was rather blatent when he summoned those swords and had that pedant on when he died cos that pedant kept shirou alive

[SlashZero]

Originally Posted by Archer

Telling you the answer to this question will give away the secret to Saber's summoning.

Well, we can also take into account Rin summoned Archer before Shirou summoned his servant. I don't know if it's possible to summon the same servant twice in the same war, though.

[anim4niac]

so archer has the powers of every shirou who became a heroic spirit? is that what ya mean arch? (i have no idea how to put up that spoiler thing -_-||)

[Archer]

Originally Posted by anim4niac

so archer has the powers of every shirou who became a heroic spirit? is that what ya mean arch? (i have no idea how to put up that spoiler thing -_-||)

Spoiler:

Pretty much. But those Shirous basically all went through the same thing to become a Heroic Spirit, so there's not much of a difference between them, if any at all.

[Bahumat]

Originally Posted by MiniTeddy

from what i know

Spoiler:

Archer is Shriou i worked this out because well it was rather blatent when he summoned those swords and had that pedant on when he died cos that pedant kept shirou alive

I agree with teddy. Although it is alluded who he is in ep 14:

Spoiler:

such as when he flashbacks to his old memories....at least that's how I interpret it. When Shirou images Kashoi and Bakuya is when Rin realises who Archer really is.

to respond to IMSabbel:

Spoiler:

The calalyst for summoning has to be something important to the Heroic Soul themself. This is like Berserker's club/sword. Shirou was never important to himself, and thus would not be able to summon himself. He can summon Saber, as he has something important to her, and Rin can summon Archer as she has something important to him (the pendant she saved him with).

[lftwgr]

Questions about the Anime, not the Game (ok maybe the Fate ending):

Is Archer from the same timeline as Shirou? If he is not, then was he ever Saber's master in that timeline? If he was, then why is it that during the scene where, after receiving a pounding from Heracles and regaining his memories, the flashback sequences featured only 2 characters - Rin and his younger self? Does this mean that after accepting that Saber and himself were never meant to be together, he goes on to be romantically linked to Rin? (which would explain his fondness / teasing of Rin at the start of the season and his unconscious memory of how Rin likes her tea despite the fact that he has no knowledge of his true identity)

Oh and does Shirou know that Archer is actually his future self? You would've thought that after imaging Kansho and Bakuya, Caliburn, Avalon, a wooden bow, one arrow, countless iron kettles, etc. that he would be wise to the fact that imaging is a rare skill no one else possesses.

[mlai]

1. Archer and Shirou are 2 separate timelines.

2. He was Saber's master, but he never developed a romantic relationship with her. However, even Archer remembers Saber's summoning in the shed with a certain fondness; her striking elegance at that moonlit moment was forever seared into the mind of every Shirou.

3. In Archer's own timeline, he became close with Rin rather than Saber. It is hinted that he failed to save Rin from death when they were both older.

4. Shirou is an idiot.

5. One thing I would have changed about the anime... When Archer injured an arm after over-exerting himself while fighting Berserker, it was the opposite arm from the one Saber-dragon bit off in spirit mode. In the game, there is a reason why it's not the same arm. But for the anime, I would have made it the same arm. It would have offered a very nice explanation.

[lftwgr]

Originally Posted by mlai

2. He was Saber's master, but he never developed a romantic relationship with her. However, even Archer remembers Saber's summoning in the shed with a certain fondness; her striking elegance at that moonlit moment was forever seared into the mind of every Shirou.

3. In Archer's own timeline, he became close with Rin rather than Saber. It is hinted that he failed to save Rin from death when they were both older.

4. Shirou is an idiot.

5. One thing I would have changed about the anime... When Archer injured an arm after over-exerting himself while fighting Berserker, it was the opposite arm from the one Saber-dragon bit off in spirit mode. In the game, there is a reason why it's not the same arm. But for the anime, I would have made it the same arm. It would have offered a very nice explanation.

3. This explains a lot about his behavior with Rin when he is her servant. Of all the master/servant pairings, these two seem to hit it off right from the start. I wonder if the Fate Shirou would follow Archer's romantic path now that he has fallen for (and lost) Saber. I know: I'm a hopeless romantic who is just looking for any excuse for a happy ending, so don't rub it in.

4. He is an idiot. But not as jaded / world-weary as Archer. Too bad Archer didn't regain his memories during his conversations (pre-Berserker) with Shirou. I would've preferred if he shared his thoughts on what were his past mistakes (in a enigmatic and cryptic manner of course) with his younger self.

5. I thought the way Archer got injured was weird - he slices Heracles with the reinforced versions of Kansho and Bakuya and suddenly there is a blast that injures only his left arm? I don't even see anything that indicates an injury (blood, torn clothing, etc.)

I guess Rin would be Shirou's anchor in reality to tame his 'hero of justice' ideology in the future? I thought Rin cracked a little in trying to save Sakura from Caster though.

Spoiler for Off-topic: Summoning Process:

It is implied that the summoning process requires a significant object to focus on (e.g. Excalibur's scabbard for Saber, or the Tosaka jewel in Archer's case). However, during the meeting at the Emiya residence after Shirou's first encounter with Shinji as a master, Rin seems to be saying that which servant is summoned depends on the characteristics of the master. So is she confused? What happens if someone like Shinji were to use the Scabbard and try to summon Arthuria?

[mlai]

1. I think anime Shirou would end up with Sakura, if anybody. Rin loves her little sister too much to steal her man away from her.

2. Archer's "exploding swords" was Studio Deen's incorrect use of his Broken Phantasm. The act of magically enhancing a traced weapon so that it rises one grade in power, but in so doing the weapon becomes unstable and shatters in a discharge of energy. Looks like he miscalculated the timing of his Broken Phantasms, and got caught in the ensuing explosion. His arm is hurt from a past trace-training accident; it's his weak arm.

3. I feel anime Rin's character development was unfinished. The early episodes made a point of establishing her as a young woman ruled by the ideology and the legacy of her magus lineage. Shirou's influence softened her somewhat and allowed her to act for the sake of others according to her own moral center, rather than be led solely by the pride of dead ancestors. At the end of her arc, she was able to act on her own behalf, and reclaim a sister who was abandoned by her father. But this is not the end of her rebellion. In the game, she goes on to overthrow the patriarch of the Matou clan, one of the few remaining old magi with vested interest in the Grail War. This was her final triumph as one who re-examined her inherited values and found them lacking, cast off the curse of the War which had given only misfortune to her clan, and live and fight for her own beliefs. This wasn't shown clearly in the anime.

4. The nature of the Servant depends on both the Master and the artifact, but the artifact holds greater priority.

[Archer]

Originally Posted by lftwgr

3. This explains a lot about his behavior with Rin when he is her servant. Of all the master/servant pairings, these two seem to hit it off right from the start. I wonder if the Fate Shirou would follow Archer's romantic path now that he has fallen for (and lost) Saber. I know: I'm a hopeless romantic who is just looking for any excuse for a happy ending, so don't rub it in.

4. He is an idiot. But not as jaded / world-weary as Archer. Too bad Archer didn't regain his memories during his conversations (pre-Berserker) with Shirou. I would've preferred if he shared his thoughts on what were his past mistakes (in a enigmatic and cryptic manner of course) with his younger self.

5. I thought the way Archer got injured was weird - he slices Heracles with the reinforced versions of Kansho and Bakuya and suddenly there is a blast that injures only his left arm? I don't even see anything that indicates an injury (blood, torn clothing, etc.)

I guess Rin would be Shirou's anchor in reality to tame his 'hero of justice' ideology in the future? I thought Rin cracked a little in trying to save Sakura from Caster though.

Spoiler for Off-topic: Summoning Process:

It is implied that the summoning process requires a significant object to focus on (e.g. Excalibur's scabbard for Saber, or the Tosaka jewel in Archer's case). However, during the meeting at the Emiya residence after Shirou's first encounter with Shinji as a master, Rin seems to be saying that which servant is summoned depends on the characteristics of the master. So is she confused? What happens if someone like Shinji were to use the Scabbard and try to summon Arthuria?

Point Number 4: Archer does recover his memories before Saber is even summoned; Saber's attack prevents him from accomplishing his true goal of killing Emiya Shirou.

And that's the reason why Emiya Shirou does not see Archer as himself. Archer's character is too fundamentally different; they are like opposing forces. They get on each other's nerves. Would you like to see someone that is completely opposite your character as yourself?

Also, Shinji can't be able to summon anything, he's too weak for that.

Oh, and I don't think Rin would care. At all. Heck, she didn't even rescue him in the beginning for his sake, she rescued him for the sake of somebody else.