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ashesatdusk · 2007-05-26, 07:08

It was stated by the Gikon during Rukia's fight the arrancar, D-Roy, that Rukia is strong enough to be a seated officer, but is not ranked because Baykuya arranged for her to be taken off the promotion list. Through the Soul Society Arc it wasn't really clear how strong, Rukia was due to her weakened state. So where do you guys think Rukia would seat at this point. My guess is at least a 3rd or 4th Seat, due to the quick work she made out of D-Roy.

Scep · 2007-05-26, 08:11

vice probably. Defeating an arrancar, no matter the strength of it, is quite a feat, and whats more, she even took out an espada, whose strength i believe is undeniable.

intercostalspace · 2007-05-26, 09:36

i am thinking vice as well, but i am quite suspicious though why everytime (as in everytime) Rukia wins it's as if KT is telling my subconscious that it was a fluke. WHY?

i guess we have never really seen her fully recovered even during her fight with D-Roy???

i have posted this in some other forum as well:

Spoiler for powerful enough to be seated?:

bkzjester · 2007-05-26, 09:46

I believe 3rd seat, no higher nor lower.

Opayk · 2007-05-26, 14:11

Yup, i'd'a thought 3rd or 4th, bearing in mind her captain is Ukitake, and he's supposed to be really quite strong.

ashesatdusk · 2007-05-26, 15:29

>i am thinking vice as well, but i am quite suspicious though why everytime (as in everytime) Rukia wins it's as if KT is telling my subconscious that it was a fluke. WHY?

Because the whole of SS Rukia, is portrayed as a weaker character because of her lack of shinigami powers. From episode 1 she gets beat by that hollow, and gives Ichigo his powers. We actually never see her do fighting on her own... until you get to the arrancar arc.

If you watch the anime ( I watched the anime, before reading the manga) the fillers reinforce a perception of Rukia with a lack of strong Shinigami powers. Of course you have to disregard that. That's why Rukia winning a fight can seem like a fluke. Also, theres a strong tendency for people to underestimate her. Ichigo's whole " You beat him? with D-Roy" and the enemy him self under estimating the power of her shikai

The fight With Espada 9 I'm not sure we can count because of powers. She beat him after he though she was dead. Its almost as if he died out of stupidity. But the fight with Espada 9 does illustrate something. Rukia seems to win battles by thinking things out more so than Ichigo, who dives first face. She seems to exploit weaknesses analyze her enemies more.

I'm reluctant to also give her vice, I don't think we haven't seen her use shunpou yet or anything like that. I don't think she could even Renji or Matsumoto in a fight, at least one involving swords. Though Renji, seems to excel in that area.

kagato3 · 2007-05-26, 21:20

I'm fairly sure she would have been VC by now had she not been taken out of the running. I mean there is a reason Ukitake has had an empty VC seat for so many years.

The first fight realy did not show she lacked skills, as she was winnig until Ichigo started to distract her by yelling at her durring the fight, even through his power was makeing it difficult to sence the hollow, and she only got wounded because she saved his life.

after that she is next to powerless untill D-roy comes along, a Gilian class arrancar, and kills it in 1 hit. Ichigo at full power was only able to dirve one back with 1 hit when he was I'd say 3 or 4 seat level and as a Arrancar D-roy should be stronger then a normal menos grande. So she seems to be stronger then Ichigo was pre-SS arc.

The SS arc showed us that a persons power level must be somewhat close to or higher then someone in order to cut them. While 7 and lower seem to be much weaker then Grimjaw and the other higher numbers they still should be at least VC level, most likely they are captain level, or else SS greatly outclasses Azein's current forces which I find hard to belive. Rukia was able to have an extended fight and come out on top vs #9 and even kill him useing only her shikai and kidou, granted she was badly wounded, some thing Renji has failed to do vs #8(yes, kidou and his Shikai still work vs #8)

Adam E · 2007-05-26, 21:26

At least Vice-Captain.

Melodymix · 2007-05-27, 00:51

Spoiler:

ashesatdusk · 2007-05-27, 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by kagato3

after that she is next to powerless untill D-roy comes along, a Gilian class arrancar, and kills it in 1 hit. Ichigo at full power was only able to dirve one back with 1 hit when he was I'd say 3 or 4 seat level and as a Arrancar D-roy should be stronger then a normal menos grande. So she seems to be stronger then Ichigo was pre-SS arc.

Definitely now, but I almost feel like KT changes how strong his characters are portrayed. Like Ikkaku, Ichigo took him out quick in the SS, with out sustaining to many major injuries, then fights renji and sustains a ton of injuries after winning... But later in the manga, KT portray Ikkaku as stronger than Renji... or any of the other VC, because he has a Bankai, and the whole renji trying to get him to replace one of the missing captain slots.

Has anyone ever seen Rukia do flash steps at any point in the manga? I'd willing to give her the Vice Captain status if she could do that. Otherwise I think a high 3rd seat.

deadroot · 2007-05-27, 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashesatdusk

Has anyone ever seen Rukia do flash steps at any point in the manga? I'd willing to give her the Vice Captain status if she could do that. Otherwise I think a high 3rd seat.

I think it was during chapter 201 with her fight with D-Roy. After she released her Zanpakutou's shikai form she immediately appeared behind him using her Tsuki Shirou.

ashesatdusk · 2007-05-27, 06:28

>On the one hand this shows, that strenght isn't everything you need to win, but on the other hand it also means, that she isn't really as powerful as some of you seem to think she is. And power seems to be the only scale to decide which seat someone ge

Thats what I'm thinking.

Marsala · 2007-05-27, 09:51

She's vice captain level, at least. Remember how Chad easily beat a 3rd seat and then was almost instantly killed by Deeroy? That puts the old Chad on 3rd seat level or above and Deeroy above him. Unlike Chad, Rukia was able to keep up with Deeroy's speed and even managed to kill him. Rukia must be VC level.

Opayk · 2007-05-27, 10:21

That is indeed true, but bear in mind that all divisions aren't equal. We've seen that she'd probably be placed higher in Hitsugaya's division, than in Yamamoto or Kenpachi's division. And Ukitake shouldn't be taken lightly in terms of power. He and Shunsui are supposed to be 'the most feared on the battlefield'. So the question should be: Where would Rukia seat in 13th division?

Scep · 2007-05-27, 11:05

No, the captain has absolutely nothing to do with this. Yamatomo is a monster on the battlefield, but his VC is a absolute weakling. I do think, however that since we're talking about division wise, the question to be asked is can rukia defeat both the 3rd seats of the current 13th division. Seeing how the guy was defeated by just one hit of soi fong's.... hair? I think it won't be that hard for rukia to win.

Thewanderer · 2007-05-27, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

She just came from a blind spot.

I think that's the real problem: After she got back her power, she hasn't really defeated her enemies by strength, but mainly by surprise.
On the one hand this shows, that strenght isn't everything you need to win, but on the other hand it also means, that she isn't really as powerful as some of you seem to think she is. And power seems to be the only scale to decide which seat someone gets.
Personally I would place her at 3rd or 4th seat. She seems to be top in kido, but her swordskills are only average. I can't remember her showing any kind of talent for hand to hand combat, and the same goes for Shunpo.

I agree here, except the 3/4th seat thing. Sure she seems weak compared to Renji and even 3rd seater Ikkaku, but those are exceptions to the standard powerlevels for their positions.

Lendial · 2007-05-27, 17:23

id guess vice, main characters get powered up to the point where they can at least beat trashy arrancars

ashesatdusk · 2007-05-27, 17:37

>Sure she seems weak compared to Renji and even 3rd seater Ikkaku, but those are exceptions to the standard powerlevels for their positions.

Hmm... this does bring up interesting that their is a power deviation with in each class. 11th Squad though it seems their seated officers are under rated, many of their seated officers seem to go off to other squads for higher ranks. Renji Vice captain of 6th Squad, Ikkaku who wants to stay under Zarachi, but could easily be a vice captain, Yumichika Ayasegawa is 5th division... but could probably be vice captain class, if he was willing to actually use his shikai. Tetsuzaemon_Iba left 11th squad to become lieutenant in 7th, Ikkaku claims thats because he wouldn't even get Vice in 11th squad.

I don't think its actually accurate to compare their officers as a benchmark. It seems their seats are underrated. Each officer could place in a higher seat than they actually are.

>So the question should be: Where would Rukia seat in 13th division?

not necessarily, I think their is a certain skill level that defines Vice captain class. I think theirs that general feeling with in the soul society. I mean when Ichigo first confronts Baykuya in the SS (in front of the white tower)... when he's approaching Ukitake says his reitsu is clearly captain class (Chapter 116). Urahara tells ichigo during training, too fight evenly with Vice captains he must be able to attack with resolve everytime, right now he's a 3rd seat at best (Chapter 97). My question is which class of fighter does Rukia fall into. With holding Renji, would she be able to fight against a Vice Captain, say Kira or Hinamori, or matsumoto (which I would think are roughly the same level) evenly or would she be out matched.)

Marsala · 2007-05-27, 18:45

Let's not ignore Rukia's battle against Aaroniero. Rukia dodged his first surprise attack and managed to hold him off for some time in his unreleased state with only Shikai and kidou. Compare that to Renji's similar performance against the Octava Espada. Rukia also put Aaroniero into a position where she could have hit him with a powerful kidou if she had chosen to aim at him and not the wall behind him; Aaroniero admitted that she could have at least wounded him. Renji needed to blow himself up to score a similar hit on Szayeloporro. Finally, remember that Aaroniero was fighting with the skills and power of Kaien, a vice captain at a minimum. Putting all of that together, it's clear that Rukia must be at least vice captain level.

ashesatdusk · 2007-05-27, 19:23

>it's clear that Rukia must be at least vice captain level.
Thats strong argument except a lot of the fighting was because espada 9 was toying with her at first... again a lot of it seems to be here opponent under estimate her completely. The main thing though that keeps me from wanting to give rukia vice captain level is she hasn't demonstrated the ability to use Flash-steps, I think just about every other captain can, to some degree. Not like Yoruichi, Ichigo, or Baykuya.

2007-05-26, 07:08	Link #1
ashesatdusk Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: La La Land	[Manga] Where would Rukia Seat ? It was stated by the Gikon during Rukia's fight the arrancar, D-Roy, that Rukia is strong enough to be a seated officer, but is not ranked because Baykuya arranged for her to be taken off the promotion list. Through the Soul Society Arc it wasn't really clear how strong, Rukia was due to her weakened state. So where do you guys think Rukia would seat at this point. My guess is at least a 3rd or 4th Seat, due to the quick work she made out of D-Roy. __________________ Sig never posted, because the mods would remove it for exceeding the size limit.

2007-05-26, 09:36	Link #3
intercostalspace Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2007	i am thinking vice as well, but i am quite suspicious though why everytime (as in everytime) Rukia wins it's as if KT is telling my subconscious that it was a fluke. WHY? i guess we have never really seen her fully recovered even during her fight with D-Roy??? i have posted this in some other forum as well: Spoiler for powerful enough to be seated?: http://www.onemanga.com/media/mangas/00000003/00000230/06.jpg Ukitate says "it's still short a time to heal the heart; it's even a shorter time to collect ones powers" the continuation of Rukia panel is at 235 http://www.onemanga.com/media/mangas...0000235/17.jpg Ichigo says "what an awesome power"

2007-05-26, 15:29	Link #6
ashesatdusk Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: La La Land	>i am thinking vice as well, but i am quite suspicious though why everytime (as in everytime) Rukia wins it's as if KT is telling my subconscious that it was a fluke. WHY? Because the whole of SS Rukia, is portrayed as a weaker character because of her lack of shinigami powers. From episode 1 she gets beat by that hollow, and gives Ichigo his powers. We actually never see her do fighting on her own... until you get to the arrancar arc. If you watch the anime ( I watched the anime, before reading the manga) the fillers reinforce a perception of Rukia with a lack of strong Shinigami powers. Of course you have to disregard that. That's why Rukia winning a fight can seem like a fluke. Also, theres a strong tendency for people to underestimate her. Ichigo's whole " You beat him? with D-Roy" and the enemy him self under estimating the power of her shikai The fight With Espada 9 I'm not sure we can count because of powers. She beat him after he though she was dead. Its almost as if he died out of stupidity. But the fight with Espada 9 does illustrate something. Rukia seems to win battles by thinking things out more so than Ichigo, who dives first face. She seems to exploit weaknesses analyze her enemies more. I'm reluctant to also give her vice, I don't think we haven't seen her use shunpou yet or anything like that. I don't think she could even Renji or Matsumoto in a fight, at least one involving swords. Though Renji, seems to excel in that area. __________________ Sig never posted, because the mods would remove it for exceeding the size limit.

2007-05-26, 21:20	Link #7
kagato3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006	I'm fairly sure she would have been VC by now had she not been taken out of the running. I mean there is a reason Ukitake has had an empty VC seat for so many years. The first fight realy did not show she lacked skills, as she was winnig until Ichigo started to distract her by yelling at her durring the fight, even through his power was makeing it difficult to sence the hollow, and she only got wounded because she saved his life. after that she is next to powerless untill D-roy comes along, a Gilian class arrancar, and kills it in 1 hit. Ichigo at full power was only able to dirve one back with 1 hit when he was I'd say 3 or 4 seat level and as a Arrancar D-roy should be stronger then a normal menos grande. So she seems to be stronger then Ichigo was pre-SS arc. The SS arc showed us that a persons power level must be somewhat close to or higher then someone in order to cut them. While 7 and lower seem to be much weaker then Grimjaw and the other higher numbers they still should be at least VC level, most likely they are captain level, or else SS greatly outclasses Azein's current forces which I find hard to belive. Rukia was able to have an extended fight and come out on top vs #9 and even kill him useing only her shikai and kidou, granted she was badly wounded, some thing Renji has failed to do vs #8(yes, kidou and his Shikai still work vs #8) __________________ Higurashi: Its a bit like watching a trainwreck, except you keep getting to see different trains wrecking with roughly the same passengers, into a variety of different objects. Also, the trains are driven by monkeys. On LSD.

2007-05-27, 00:51	Link #9
Melodymix Ying Yang Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: .::NeW zEaLaNd ::. Age: 31	Spoiler: In chapter 267 the Espada said while fighting Rukia "The number of hollows I've eaten until now is 33,650. From now on in this fight think of it as though you are fighting alone against a Hollow army more than 30,000" And Rukia defeated (well sort of...) the Arrancar so she has to be seated somewhere between Vice-Captain~3rd Seat Last edited by Melodymix; 2007-05-28 at 22:57.

2007-05-26, 08:11	Link #2
Scep commands you to...! Artist Join Date: Apr 2006	vice probably. Defeating an arrancar, no matter the strength of it, is quite a feat, and whats more, she even took out an espada, whose strength i believe is undeniable.

2007-05-26, 09:46	Link #4
bkzjester Member Join Date: Jun 2006	I believe 3rd seat, no higher nor lower.

2007-05-26, 14:11	Link #5
Opayk Right Arm of the Giant Join Date: May 2007 Location: UK Age: 34	Yup, i'd'a thought 3rd or 4th, bearing in mind her captain is Ukitake, and he's supposed to be really quite strong.

2007-05-26, 21:26	Link #8
Adam E Riskbreaker Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Canada Age: 37	At least Vice-Captain.

2007-05-27, 06:28	Link #12
ashesatdusk Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: La La Land	>On the one hand this shows, that strenght isn't everything you need to win, but on the other hand it also means, that she isn't really as powerful as some of you seem to think she is. And power seems to be the only scale to decide which seat someone ge Thats what I'm thinking. __________________ Sig never posted, because the mods would remove it for exceeding the size limit.

2007-05-27, 09:51	Link #13
Marsala Delurker Join Date: Jan 2007	She's vice captain level, at least. Remember how Chad easily beat a 3rd seat and then was almost instantly killed by Deeroy? That puts the old Chad on 3rd seat level or above and Deeroy above him. Unlike Chad, Rukia was able to keep up with Deeroy's speed and even managed to kill him. Rukia must be VC level.

2007-05-27, 10:21	Link #14
Opayk Right Arm of the Giant Join Date: May 2007 Location: UK Age: 34	That is indeed true, but bear in mind that all divisions aren't equal. We've seen that she'd probably be placed higher in Hitsugaya's division, than in Yamamoto or Kenpachi's division. And Ukitake shouldn't be taken lightly in terms of power. He and Shunsui are supposed to be 'the most feared on the battlefield'. So the question should be: Where would Rukia seat in 13th division?

2007-05-27, 11:05	Link #15
Scep commands you to...! Artist Join Date: Apr 2006	No, the captain has absolutely nothing to do with this. Yamatomo is a monster on the battlefield, but his VC is a absolute weakling. I do think, however that since we're talking about division wise, the question to be asked is can rukia defeat both the 3rd seats of the current 13th division. Seeing how the guy was defeated by just one hit of soi fong's.... hair? I think it won't be that hard for rukia to win.

2007-05-27, 17:23	Link #17
Lendial Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006	id guess vice, main characters get powered up to the point where they can at least beat trashy arrancars

2007-05-27, 17:37	Link #18
ashesatdusk Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: La La Land	>Sure she seems weak compared to Renji and even 3rd seater Ikkaku, but those are exceptions to the standard powerlevels for their positions. Hmm... this does bring up interesting that their is a power deviation with in each class. 11th Squad though it seems their seated officers are under rated, many of their seated officers seem to go off to other squads for higher ranks. Renji Vice captain of 6th Squad, Ikkaku who wants to stay under Zarachi, but could easily be a vice captain, Yumichika Ayasegawa is 5th division... but could probably be vice captain class, if he was willing to actually use his shikai. Tetsuzaemon_Iba left 11th squad to become lieutenant in 7th, Ikkaku claims thats because he wouldn't even get Vice in 11th squad. I don't think its actually accurate to compare their officers as a benchmark. It seems their seats are underrated. Each officer could place in a higher seat than they actually are. >So the question should be: Where would Rukia seat in 13th division? not necessarily, I think their is a certain skill level that defines Vice captain class. I think theirs that general feeling with in the soul society. I mean when Ichigo first confronts Baykuya in the SS (in front of the white tower)... when he's approaching Ukitake says his reitsu is clearly captain class (Chapter 116). Urahara tells ichigo during training, too fight evenly with Vice captains he must be able to attack with resolve everytime, right now he's a 3rd seat at best (Chapter 97). My question is which class of fighter does Rukia fall into. With holding Renji, would she be able to fight against a Vice Captain, say Kira or Hinamori, or matsumoto (which I would think are roughly the same level) evenly or would she be out matched.) __________________ Sig never posted, because the mods would remove it for exceeding the size limit.

2007-05-27, 18:45	Link #19
Marsala Delurker Join Date: Jan 2007	Let's not ignore Rukia's battle against Aaroniero. Rukia dodged his first surprise attack and managed to hold him off for some time in his unreleased state with only Shikai and kidou. Compare that to Renji's similar performance against the Octava Espada. Rukia also put Aaroniero into a position where she could have hit him with a powerful kidou if she had chosen to aim at him and not the wall behind him; Aaroniero admitted that she could have at least wounded him. Renji needed to blow himself up to score a similar hit on Szayeloporro. Finally, remember that Aaroniero was fighting with the skills and power of Kaien, a vice captain at a minimum. Putting all of that together, it's clear that Rukia must be at least vice captain level.

2007-05-27, 19:23	Link #20
ashesatdusk Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: La La Land	>it's clear that Rukia must be at least vice captain level. Thats strong argument except a lot of the fighting was because espada 9 was toying with her at first... again a lot of it seems to be here opponent under estimate her completely. The main thing though that keeps me from wanting to give rukia vice captain level is she hasn't demonstrated the ability to use Flash-steps, I think just about every other captain can, to some degree. Not like Yoruichi, Ichigo, or Baykuya. __________________ Sig never posted, because the mods would remove it for exceeding the size limit.