Isekai gripes

[Fireminer]

Hate it or love it, Isekai as a genre will not go away soon. With that in mind, which flaws would you usually see in Isekai shows and you would like future authors to fix?

With me, the protagonist is always the biggest weak point of Isekai. It is in these cases that someone broken like Light or Tatsuya would be fitting - Can you imagine the shock that a person will suffer when transported in a world completely different from his? Especially in world with magic (no one has ever tried to illustrate the effect of a magic-saturated world on a protagonist's body and mind.)

Secondly, newer Isekai protagonists usually get it easy. In older shows such as Magic Knight Rayearth, the protagonists usually are confused and as such they were herded on a path pre-destined (the chosen one), and en route they begin to develop doubt, yada yada. However, if a boy is transported to an unknown world nowaday, he almost immediately know what he want to do, and more prosperously, knowing HOW to do it. (In short, going to another world won't 100% give you a raison d' etre, or making you from a failure to a hero.)

[Klashikari]

My biggest gripe with Isekai genre is that the vast majority of the series do not exploit the background of the main character whatsoever, and we are actually left in the dark when it comes to their backstory or whatever that happens on the other side.

That and the fact that kind of main character always seem to be confused or excited without actually taking advantage of their knowledge from the original world.
The latter is somewhat present in few works like GATE, but generally speaking, series like Re:Zero and whatnot outright ignore anything that is related to the original world, making the whole point of "isekai protag" borderline moot.

[Tanuki.]

I don't think there is anything wrong with an isekai setting per se, but there are so many ideas that are being recycled (male MC, harem-y story, RPG elements etc.) that it gets tedious very quickly.

I definitely like the general framework and setup – a character being thrown into a different time or world –, and works like The Twelve Kingdoms handle it in a interesting way. My problem is not the isekai part itself, but that the modern isekai Light Novels are usually aimed at a male otaku audience and contain many tropes and pandering I'm not particularly fond of. I'm also pretty tired of the RPG-like settings.

But I definitely agree with Fireminer, the MCs usually accept their strange fate rather quickly, this is not how a real human would act. I also agree with Klashikari. I liked, for example, that both worlds were still relevant in Arata Kangatari (or in fantasy novels like Narnia and His Dark Materials) and similar works.

[Fireminer]

This article may explain something about isekai genre: https://frogkun.com/2016/05/05/whats...ggers-explain/

Well, when will Isekai protagnist stop being placeholders?

I do think that the LN is experiencing a Gold Rush - that is, everyone is jumping into the market and (potentially) strike it rich.

[IceHism]

If we're talking about narou here, then it's bad prose and weird tendencies to turn their MCs into gods and lomoing the story up. Too many authors on narou that can't write and seem to not be able to pull out a writing book for reference. Then again, it is literally fanfiction so I don't expect much.

[Diluc]

The problem in isekai genre, the genre suffer from lacking creativity.
1.Why mc must be people from another world?
2. Why mc must OP
3. Why they must have harem?

[Kanon]

The MCs are my problem with isekai as well. It seems to me the only reason authors go with isekai instead of plain old fantasy nowadays is so they can have a MC the audience can identify with (either a high school student or a NEET). That's it. The protagonists have no trouble adapting to life in a completely different world because this new world is actually strikingly similar to their favorite video game, and the shows in fact completely forget the MC comes from another world after a while. Why even bother with Isekai if you don't even make use of the premise?

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Roxis

The problem in isekai genre, the genre suffer from lacking creativity.
1.Why mc must be people from another world?
2. Why mc must OP
3. Why they must have harem?

Answer for 1. and 2. Is simple, It's wish fulfilment. But it's not like that's bad on it's own. Everyone want their wishes come true and if they can project themselves into hero of story they can experience it for once. Problem is if it's overdone it stop be relatable by audience and became author masturbation. That's 90% percent Narou.

As for why it has to be isekai. Well it doesn't have too, but this kind of settings has lot of potential. You can get clash of cultures, dealing with loosing family and friends and it gives character chance reevaluate own values and maybe even start anew. .

...Or it can be used to give MC cheat to have everything handed to him on silver plate, but again that's not fault of settings, is it?

[Archon_Wing]

I think it'd be a good idea to stop being so meta. Basically people think they're clever by putting out a dumb trope and then ridiculing said trope.... and then that's it.

I mean it's fine a vacuum but it seems like too much is built around it. It's like writing retarded shit is okay if you point out it is retarded.

The other thing is that there's never any links to the original world, and then sometimes you wonder why we even bother in the first place. Yea I know dimensional portals only happen in Japan but still.

[zztop]

Originally Posted by Tanuki.

... My problem is not the isekai part itself, but that the modern isekai Light Novels are usually aimed at a male otaku audience and contain many tropes and pandering I'm not particularly fond of. I'm also pretty tired of the RPG-like settings.

The RPG-like settings of modern Narou isekais are highly interconnected with Japanese gamer culture, which grew up playing epic RPG games set in Western-inspired fantasy worlds with emphasis on stats and leveling (ex. Final Fantasy series). As such, they'd write their stories drawing from their knowledge of JRPG conventions and cliches. For example, the author of the "Grimgar of Ash & Fantasy" novels admitted his love of RPG and console games inspired him to become an author in the 1st place.

I idscussed on on Reddit, where another member also said the following
"...a lot of these stories, it's not just that they take place in an RPGesque world with RPG stats and abilities. But that the story is almost like watching someone [doing a Youtube Let's Play] of an RPG. It's about stats and abilities, and getting more stats and abilities, and finding out how to properly play your 'class' by making use of its stats and abilities to get around its limitations and counter the stats and abilities of mobs and other classes. But what they lack is the kind of personality traits and flaws that makes the characters become people in a story rather than stat blocks in a game."

I don't think there is anything wrong with an isekai setting per se, but there are so many ideas that are being recycled (male MC, harem-y story, RPG elements etc.) that it gets tedious very quickly.

On the flipside, I think a lot of authors greatly overlook the potential of the reverse isekai genre, where it's the fantasy characters that get thrown into our modern world/a more tech-advanced world and must adjust to a modern lifestyle and amenities. Like Hataraku Maou-sama.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

My biggest gripe with Isekai genre is that the vast majority of the series do not exploit the background of the main character whatsoever, and we are actually left in the dark when it comes to their backstory or whatever that happens on the other side.

That and the fact that kind of main character always seem to be confused or excited without actually taking advantage of their knowledge from the original world.

I can think of 2 isekai titles where the MCs do use their original world knowledge:

How a Realist Hero Rebuilt the Kingdom - MC uses his socioeconomic knowledge (and workaholic habits) to modernize his newly acquired kingdom.
Choujin Koukousei-tachi wa Isekai demo Yoyuu de Ikinuku you desu - The 7 MCs each use their Danganronpa-like special skill/knowledge set to improve the world they've been sent to whilst searching for an actual way home

[Botan_TM]

Originally Posted by zztop

On the flipside, I think a lot of authors greatly overlook the potential of the reverse isekai genre, where it's the fantasy characters that get thrown into our modern world/a more tech-advanced world and must adjust to a modern lifestyle and amenities. Like Hataraku Maou-sama.

I let myself to disagree with that. It have the same risk, like isekami stories - to make it real it have to have a MC covering a lot time with learning about world and providing basic living stuff and having a bunch of comedic relief with constant misunderstandings. It's boring after reading a few of those. Anyway, Hataraku Maou-sama is great, but because characters have a great dynamic between them, a whole hell of story behind, but transfer to this world forced them to challenge their believes and ideas.

Originally Posted by zztop

I can think of 2 isekai titles where the MCs do use their original world knowledge:

There is more for sure, like currently adapted to anime Youjo Senki, or Risou no Himo Seikatsu.

Youjo Senki is the proof, that premise do not matter in reality. It pull some of red flags (isekai bender-bender into OP cheat loli in world with magic), yet it do things well, because MC is for sure broken, not just dump evil for evilly pragmatic, yet somehow relatable to moral and existence dilemmas of current world and constantly struggling with it (and God), also author indeed studied and have knowledge of real military history and knows how to create a plot with it.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

That and the fact that kind of main character always seem to be confused or excited without actually taking advantage of their knowledge from the original world.
The latter is somewhat present in few works like GATE, but generally speaking, series like Re:Zero and whatnot outright ignore anything that is related to the original world, making the whole point of "isekai protag" borderline moot.

Actually in case of Re:Zero the original world is important, though not quite to the degree it is in GATE. Unfortunately it was one of the few important world-buluding and foreshadowing elements was cut in the adaptation.

[kari-no-sugata II]

I'd say that the main reason for the poor quality of stories written on narou is because most of them are complete amateurs. It takes time to learn how to write good stories - years and years. Putting it another way, the poor authors will be poor no matter what genre they write in and if something other than isekai was popular then that genre would be getting the blame instead. That being said, that's no excuse for badly written published works which should have run past a decent editor at least.

A lot of WNs have the problem of using some gimmick or implausible setup to start the story off. With "isekai" this is often a "cheat ability". It's basically a form of "what if" stories or "wish fulfilment". It would be nice if the authors put more effort into such things - such as explaining why huge amounts of power would simply be granted for minimal reasons. If power is handed out so easily then it should be common.

A lot of "isekai" stories have very generic worlds. But this isn't any worse than "generic high-school" stories, though it's more annoying - if you're going to do "fantasy" then it's a shame to skimp on the world-building since you have so much more opportunity. I don't have an intrinsic problem with worlds that have "game like" aspects - so long as background for this is explained. I've only ever seen one series do this though.

A lot of "isekai" stories have very plain MCs. But I see the same problem with non-isekai stories as well. It's rather depressing how much effort is put into giving the MC a personality, some meaningful hopes and dreams, issues to overcome etc. A lot of them do little more than wander around reacting to events.

Etc...

[zztop]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

I'd say that the main reason for the poor quality of stories written on narou is because most of them are complete amateurs...

A lot of "isekai" stories have very generic worlds. But this isn't any worse than "generic high-school" stories, though it's more annoying - if you're going to do "fantasy" then it's a shame to skimp on the world-building since you have so much more opportunity. I don't have an intrinsic problem with worlds that have "game like" aspects - so long as background for this is explained. I've only ever seen one series do this though.

I think this again has to do with the writer's amateur level - I once heard of a narou webnovel that was criticised in its thread as lacking worldbuilding, and the author replied that he couldn't be bothered as it was too complicated for him to think up of a good background. I think he just lacked the skills and imagination.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by zztop

I think this again has to do with the writer's amateur level - I once heard of a narou webnovel that was criticised in its thread as lacking worldbuilding, and the author replied that he couldn't be bothered as it was too complicated for him to think up of a good background. I think he just lacked the skills and imagination.

A lot of it comes down to practice as well... but if the basic effort to try isn't even made then it's not surprising that the end result is poor. Makes one wonder why the person even wants to try writing in the first place.

Even if you lack the imagination you can research what others have done. Maybe take a similar concept but focus on a different aspect. Or mix two different concepts. Unfortunately, a lot of authors seem to base their "research" on games which is a very bad place to go to for world-building (in most cases) because what works for a game doesn't necessarily make sense in the real world.

[Botan_TM]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

Maybe take a similar concept but focus on a different aspect. Or mix two different concepts.

That do not make thing works. Interesting concept itself can carry a story for a very short time though,

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by Botan_TM

That do not make thing works. Interesting concept itself can carry a story for a very short time though,

A frequent piece of advice is to mix a "familiar" concept with a "strange" concept. For example, the setting for Youjo Senki could be said to be a mix of "world wars" (familiar) and "magic" (strange).

[Kafriel]

Isekai titles require the MC to have a defining ability in order to stand out from the crowd, otherwise they're just mooks who get lucky. Their main trait is usually either athletic disposition, combat experience, online perseverance (yes, staying logged for 48h straight is a SKILL!) or, in the case of non-VR settings, meta knowledge.

1. This advantage is usually long forgotten by the time the protagonist gets better power-ups, devolving from a serious character with an edge over others to a ridiculous treasure hoarder who has it easy. For MCs with cheat items, the opposite occurs; they rely so much on their cheats that they don't have any actual skill, so the MC is just a really lucky guy who could have been anyone else (unless he's a Chosen, which is a very bullshit way to start a story).

2. Even when they're not so well-off, the plot armor is real. Be it lightning reflexes, backup clones or an army of squishies taking the bullet for them, the MC can never die or be severely incapacitated. This makes their position in the Otherworld even more solid...and the story becomes much more predictable.

3. The psyche of the MC is left unexplored. Random guy finds himself killing monsters or having to slay hundreds of people and their reaction is ...ok. A peace-loving average person can turn into a genocidal maniac, but even then it won't matter - it won't be allowed to matter - because the PLOT moves said MC. Which brings us to the next point...

4. Isekai is a whole new world. Who cares about just one person? While the author expands (and rightfully so) on the world they have imagined, the intricate diplomatic relationship between the factions of that world overshadow the power and importance of the MC, making them a tool for others to use, while desperately trying to preserve a sense of freedom through cynicism. There are some rare exceptions like Overlord, Warlock of the Magical world or ISSTH, but the MC is usually like weed - to be used and passed around until everyone's had enough of them, at which point they can travel elsewhere to be used by other people.

[Diluc]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Answer for 1. and 2. Is simple, It's wish fulfilment. But it's not like that's bad on it's own. Everyone want their wishes come true and if they can project themselves into hero of story they can experience it for once. Problem is if it's overdone it stop be relatable by audience and became author masturbation. That's 90% percent Narou.

As for why it has to be isekai. Well it doesn't have too, but this kind of settings has lot of potential. You can get clash of cultures, dealing with loosing family and friends and it gives character chance reevaluate own values and maybe even start anew. .

...Or it can be used to give MC cheat to have everything handed to him on silver plate, but again that's not fault of settings, is it?

To be fair the generic setting is not wrong but a lot writers overusing the same concept is very annoying.
Is wish fulfilment really the core reason? I am aware about self-mc insert by fandom but it ridiculous to think that the shared reason by 123.433.543 authors who write isekai genre

[Tenzen12]

Yes, I think so. Question was "Why MC has to be from different (our) world" And answer is obviously "because we can relate that". Basically If random boy was chosen (to defeat Voldemort) I can be too. That's core of " standard" isekai.

It's different if it's sci-fi protagonist -> Fantasy, Fantasy MC -> real, or whatever american cavalry man-> feudal Japan (yes I think that " Last Samurai " have all traits of isekai where it counts).

Well there are also cases where MC need meet certain requirement needed by story like being soldier, lawyer, yankee, veterinary, ect where it's still someone whose perspective we can understand even if we can't see it as our personal proxy.

And then finally deconstructions, where reason is simply "because I can do it better"

Huh? I think I just proved myself wrong But seriously these should be considered exceptions of rule if anything.