(L+CR) Lord El Melloi II Case Files - Anime Discussion

[Frontier]

Didn't they also imply that some of them were manipulated into working on that site? Maybe not kidnapped like Waver and Melvin were, but that's the sense I got.

Man, Reines sure stuck on that "still a virgin" thing. Did she want to know to be able to hold that over his head along with everything else? As if Waver doesn't get teased enough .

[Nachtwandler]

Originally Posted by Frontier

Didn't they also imply that some of them were manipulated into working on that site? Maybe not kidnapped like Waver and Melvin were, but that's the sense I got.

Man, Reines sure stuck on that "still a virgin" thing. Did she want to know to be able to hold that over his head along with everything else? As if Waver doesn't get teased enough .

The only person Reines has hard time teasing is Gray.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by GDB

he only gender bend was Frankenstein, who was clearly modeled after Frankenstein's Bride instead. Or Mordred who is a clone of Arturia, so again it works in-universe lore because of how that was already established.

Unless you're complaining that the serial killer with an unknown identity and several strong cases made that they were female was portrayed as a female instead of male, in which case...

They made Jack the Ripper into a half-naked loli running around wearing a G-String. That's a trashy fanservice to me. Not too much the fact that she's a mere female, but the fact that she's a half-naked loli running around wearing a g-string (or whatever you call such clothes). And Astolfo might as well be a girl with a dick. You do know that there are such type of girls in hentai called "futanari", right? Astolfo is blatantly designed & catered to people who like futanari (or to people who not yet realized that they like such things in anime). That's another "gross genderbent fanservice" for me. And you already mentioned Frankenstein-girl and Mordred-gal, so I don't have to repeat it.

Now, you can go to great length defending such artistic choices by delving into the lore to hell and back, but it doesn't change the fact that fanservice is the ultimate motivation & goal of such genderbent in the Fate franchise (in this case, Apoc).

[AC-Phoenix]

Reines eye color changed from yellow to blue whenever the first encounter was the present.
Kind of like a young cat's just in reverse.

[alex_drian]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I don't think he should feel responsible for his death though. As he mentioned himself, Kayneth would have most likely ended up dying even if he had summoned Iskandar. And no matter how great a mage and teacher he was, he was still a total dick.

You know it and I know it but not Waver and the doubt is plausible in-verse, after all Kayneth was a Lord and a pretty good magi, a dick regardless.

Originally Posted by Kanon

I found it interesting that people believe Kayneth was killed by Saber. This will probably be relevant.

Errr, Saber KILLED Kayneth. Context matters yes.

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

That was a pretty good start. While I get why Waver wants to honor Kayneth, he really shouldn't blame himself for Kayneth's death. Kayneth knew what he was getting himself involved in and it's not like he would have hesitated to screw over Waver if their situations were reversed.

You know it and I know it but not Waver and the doubt is plausible in-verse, after all Kayneth was a Lord and a pretty good magi, a dick regardless.

Originally Posted by Haak

One thing I forgot to mention though: When Waver and his friend were driving off into the sunset in the motorcycle, they started laughing like they had some kind of grand adventure...which seemed kinda odd considering they just killed a load of people...

Magi

Waver is not in the same level of thiking that, errr a dude that gives his second daughter to an obviously suspect old gazer, but is a Magi regardless, weird as himself between them for NOT being...you know, like that.

Originally Posted by GDB

I assume its only purpose is to make Waver further detest Arturia than he already does (after she tried to kill him on the overpass that cost Iskander his chariot).

Also almost eat Excalibur probably.

Originally Posted by GDB

While Waver wouldn't know how badly Diarmuid screwed over Kayneth's plans, he definitely did super screw him over with his knightly honor and curse mark. That said, Iskander likely wouldn't have been having any of Kayneth's nonsense either, so he definitely was screwed either way. But Waver probably felt that if HE could survive with Iskander, Kayneth would too even if he'd lose. It's wrong, but this is Waver.

You know it and I know it but not Waver and the doubt is plausible in-verse, after all Kayneth was a Lord and a such good magi, a dick regardless.

[alex_drian]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

They made Jack the Ripper into a half-naked loli running around wearing a G-String. That's a trashy fanservice to me. Not too much the fact that she's a mere female, but the fact that she's a half-naked loli running around wearing a g-string (or whatever you call such clothes). And Astolfo might as well be a girl with a dick. You do know that there are such type of girls in hentai called "futanari", right? Astolfo is blatantly designed & catered to people who like futanari (or to people who not yet realized that they like such things in anime). That's another "gross genderbent fanservice" for me. And you already mentioned Frankenstein-girl and Mordred-gal, so I don't have to repeat it.

Now, you can go to great length defending such artistic choices by delving into the lore to hell and back, but it doesn't change the fact that fanservice is the ultimate motivation & goal of such genderbent in the Fate franchise (in this case, Apoc).

Not beach episodes to you then.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

They made Jack the Ripper into a half-naked loli running around wearing a G-String. That's a trashy fanservice to me. Not too much the fact that she's a mere female, but the fact that she's a half-naked loli running around wearing a g-string (or whatever you call such clothes). And Astolfo might as well be a girl with a dick. You do know that there are such type of girls in hentai called "futanari", right? Astolfo is blatantly designed & catered to people who like futanari (or to people who not yet realized that they like such things in anime). That's another "gross genderbent fanservice" for me. And you already mentioned Frankenstein-girl and Mordred-gal, so I don't have to repeat it.

Now, you can go to great length defending such artistic choices by delving into the lore to hell and back, but it doesn't change the fact that fanservice is the ultimate motivation & goal of such genderbent in the Fate franchise (in this case, Apoc).

We don't even know if Jack the Ripper was a guy so it's not exactly genderbending. Her outfit makes sense considering she's a wraith born from the amalgamation of prostitute babies drowned in the Thames.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by alex_drian

Not beach episodes to you then.

I don’t mind beach episode if it’s relevant and adds to the main plot of the story. In recent example, the “river episode” from SSSS.Gridman comes to mind.

I also don’t mind fanservice when it makes sense, such as: characters bathing, showering, swimming in bikinis or probably even have sex. But to go out of your way to design the character’s clothes to be as slutty as possible for no good plot-reason other than fanservice is just poor taste except in ecchi or hentai shows.

Originally Posted by bakato

We don't even know if Jack the Ripper was a guy so it's not exactly genderbending.

Maybe not “gender-bent” per se, but more like “loli-bent”. And it’s a crass loli fanservice at that. Don’t you just love it when anime turn a famous figure into a loli and present her in the most fetishistic way possible? Yeah, I don’t belong to that camp and I don’t want to be .

Originally Posted by bakato

Her outfit makes sense considering she's a wraith born from the amalgamation of prostitute babies drowned in the Thames.

Read the second paragraph of my post that you quoted.

And let’s stop here. We’re being off-topic by talking about Apoc. I’m here to enjoy El Melloi 2. My one-off comment about trashy fanservice in Apoc is not meant to start an OT discussion here.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by alex_drian

Errr, Saber KILLED Kayneth. Context matters yes.

No. Maya and Kiritsugu killed him. Saber wanted nothing to do with those schemes and was angry as fuck at what Kiritsugu did.

[alex_drian]

Originally Posted by Kanon

No. Maya and Kiritsugu killed him. Saber wanted nothing to do with those schemes and was angry as fuck at what Kiritsugu did.

Nop, Kiritsugu UTTERLY DESTROY HIM, but in fact aside of the first battle he didn't touch him. Saber killed him, for piety yeah, for that, context.

[Mad Pierrot]

Originally Posted by alex_drian

Nop, Kiritsugu UTTERLY DESTROY HIM, but in fact aside of the first battle he didn't touch him. Saber killed him, for piety yeah, for that, context.

Wait, what? I'm confused. Thought Kiritsugu killed the master just a second after Lancer was forced to kill himself.

Still, it was a fun first episode but I have no idea how the series will be with so many timeskips. A shame about the animation cos Gilgamesh looked like one of those poorly modeled Gold Saints from Toei when the budget was quite bad.

[belatkuro]

Kiritsugu entered a Geis with Kayneth that he won't be able to hurt him and Sola-Ui in exchange for killing Deermud. He exploited that with a loophole and had Maiya shoot the two of them instead. Since Kiritsugu cant kill Kayneth as he begs to be killed after surviving that, Saber put him out of his misery and chopped his head off.

[Mad Pierrot]

Originally Posted by belatkuro

Kiritsugu entered a Geis with Kayneth that he won't be able to hurt him and Sola-Ui in exchange for killing Deermud. He exploited that with a loophole and had Maiya shoot the two of them instead. Saber put him out of his misery and chopped his head off as he was still alive after that.

Decapitation? Did Ufotable censore that? Cos I don't remember in the tv series. I mean Zero was quite gory but I don't remember it got that far in the anime.

[belatkuro]

It wasnt shown but I remember she did a downward swing instead of a downward stab to the ground where KFC was writhing. A swing means she cut something and a kill with that movement is decapitation. At the very least in the novels it was said she cut off his head.

[Applehell]

Not much to say about the first episode. I dig the mood it's going for just as I did with the OVA and Waver remains of better characters in the series. I'm glad he's still doing this waay more to live up Rider ideals than caring about Kayneth on a personal level.

I also believe that outside F/Zero, this is ironically closet to an actual sequel to it and the original series even if lacks the large scale stakes of it's parent show because of the more personal nature this going, which is pretty neat.

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

They made Jack the Ripper into a half-naked loli running around wearing a G-String. That's a trashy fanservice to me. Not too much the fact that she's a mere female, but the fact that she's a half-naked loli running around wearing a g-string (or whatever you call such clothes). And Astolfo might as well be a girl with a dick. You do know that there are such type of girls in hentai called "futanari", right? Astolfo is blatantly designed & catered to people who like futanari (or to people who not yet realized that they like such things in anime). That's another "gross genderbent fanservice" for me. And you already mentioned Frankenstein-girl and Mordred-gal, so I don't have to repeat it.

Now, you can go to great length defending such artistic choices by delving into the lore to hell and back, but it doesn't change the fact that fanservice is the ultimate motivation & goal of such genderbent in the Fate franchise (in this case, Apoc).

I don't really want to get into this argument, but I just have to clarify something. If Astofol is meant to appeal to anyone it's people who like otokonoko, not futanari. Those are two very different things with different appeals.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Cloudedmind

I don't really want to get into this argument, but I just have to clarify something. If Astofol is meant to appeal to anyone it's people who like otokonoko, not futanari. Those are two very different things with different appeals.

I don't want to prolong this OT discussion. So, you can call it the way you see fit. But at least you understand my point on a basic level. That's it.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by belatkuro

It wasnt shown but I remember she did a downward swing instead of a downward stab to the ground where KFC was writhing. A swing means she cut something and a kill with that movement is decapitation. At the very least in the novels it was said she cut off his head.

Owning the DVD, i can certify that Seiba mercy killed Keyneth via décapitation.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Haak

Bear in mind that this is the same guy that was shown mourning a cat and horrified at what Caster had done in the sewers. Sorry, but Waver just never struck me as that kind of person.

Eh, you know....action anime etc. Morality isn't its strong point when its not the focus of the story. FGO kind of does the morality thing better I guess

[magnuskn]

Another excellent episode.

Soooo... Gray. Something something Saber? I mean, with the haircut and her hiding her hair as soon as noticed Waver seeing it not being her cowl?