Love Live! Sunshine - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Kairin]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Love Live! Sunshine, Episode 4.

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[Stark700]

Nice episode, the girls working hard as a group especially Ruby. No performances this week but I'm fine with that.

I love how close these girls are staying close together almost like a family.

[zeross87]

lol they even go as far as to plainly tell us "muse equivalent" of each girl
it was still different than hanayo and rin joining so i'm fine with it, i love the way it turned out

next episode is yohane <3

[Seihai]

Man, that was another good episode with some well-done character exposition. Maru's storytelling was intruiging. I still think Ruby has the cutest voice out of all of them and this ep definitely increased my fondness of her. I also like Maru's weird way of speech, but I'm slightly missing a tsukkomi for whenever she says "ora" or "zura". As for the similarities, I guess some people still won't sympathize with them which is somewhat understandable. Running stairs, check. Practice on rooftop, check. Etc. But like zeross87 pointed out, they're going full throttle with the Muse parallels and they aren't even trying to hide it. I personally still don't care, heh. To me Muse is Muse, Aquors is Aquors.

[judasmartel]

Hmm. Those books and lyrics on the whiteboard inside the newly-minted School Idol Club room, Dia's sudden change of heart towards school idols in the past, and Kanan driving off Mari.

Something's telling me they have tried doing it before but failed hard.

Originally Posted by Seihai

Man, that was another good episode with some well-done character exposition. Maru's storytelling was intruiging. I still think Ruby has the cutest voice out of all of them and this ep definitely increased my fondness of her. I also like Maru's weird way of speech, but I'm slightly missing a tsukkomi for whenever she says "ora" or "zura". As for the similarities, I guess some people still won't sympathize with them which is somewhat understandable. Running stairs, check. Practice on rooftop, check. Etc. But like zeross87 pointed out, they're going full throttle with the Muse parallels and they aren't even trying to hide it. I personally still don't care, heh. To me Muse is Muse, Aquors is Aquors.

Hmm, Ruby is my favorite girl now, as well. Ai Furihata as Ruby strongly reminds me of Rina Hidaka.

As for similarities, well, people who can't get over Muse will always find ways to talk shit about Aqours about those similarities.

[blakstealth]

I freakin died with the flashback if Ruby mentioning Hanayo and Dia with Eli. I understand the Ruby hype now. She is extremely endearing. And I can't wait for Hanamaru to really show off her chops in the group. But at the same time, I felt kinda sad at that scene. They must've had a real good relationship until Dia entered high school. Now, Ruby seems really intimidated by her with school idols still a touchy subject. We're getting closer and closer to what happened those two or so years ago. It obviously wasn't good if Kanan reacted with that look of disgust. At any rate, I'm so happy and full of joy that Ruby and Zuramaru have joined the club. Can't wait next week for Yoshik- I mean Yohanne's moment to...shine. I'm expecting some GTA. I rofl'd so hard when she referred to Hanamaru as Zuramaru! xD

[Requiem-x]

In this episode, Sunrise thinks fans can't be asked to add two and two

But putting that issue aside, which really wasn't nearly as bad as the first live, this episode was different, and in a very good way, where it really needed it to be, which is Ruby and Maru, and how they act together. Maru's introduction in the episode was a very nice way to get her background out of the way, and the whole story really showed how much she cares about Ruby (certainly didn't expect her to actually confront Dia on the subject), and viceversa, of course. Honestly, I liked this introduction better, because it handled well just how important this is to Ruby, and it ended in a much less slapstick fashion, with the right amount of dramatic weight. Honestly, I did fear Maru wouldn't be joining yet during that scene of her walking to the library, and that means it clicked with me. Well done, sunshine.

Of course, there's the other big point of the episode, which is to confirm once and for all something happened between the third years, and while the general idea of what came down is clear, the details are very sketchy. Did they get crushed in the LL, or did something else happen between them? Whatever it is, it's giving sunshine a looming feeling in regards to its drama, and that's ok. Better than having to go to college out of nowhere. And good lord, Dia, your idol love is no small thing. Once she joins, my god...

Of course it goes without saying, but both Maru and Ruby are very cute, and that's quite the figure you got there, Maru. My doubts regarding the little redhead have been mostly cleared now, as she proved to be very likable and even cool when she's being honest with herself. Still waiting for a coelacanth plushie, though, that would seal the deal.

Next time, IT'S TIME!! And Riko's face in the preview! What the hell!? Oh, that's gonna be a fun ship

[Triple_R]

This is my favorite Sunshine episode so far.

It was refreshing to see the pacing finally slow down some. It was great to see the show really take some time in fleshing out two of the Sunshine girls (and giving us some nice hints/moments with the 3rd year girls as well). On the whole, it was a warm and beautiful episode.

My only criticism is, yes, that the μ's parallels were a little overdone.

That being said, there's something about this show that all of us, fan and critic and everyone between, should probably accept. It's now clear that a big part of this show is it being a homage to the original Love Live.

So the people behind Love Live Sunshine don't want us to "get over" μ's. If they wanted us to get over μ's, they definitely wouldn't be referencing μ's this much. Much of this show is a love letter to μ's and μ's fans.

Sunshine has made a choice there, and we probably should respect it. Whether or not it's for the best will vary from viewer to viewer, but there are some positives and potential positives here. It does make it a little easier for me to really connect with some of these characters, as I myself am a big μ's fan. So that's something I have in common with Chika, Dia, and now Ruby.


Anyway, a very nice Episode 4. Hanamaru and Ruby have a really sweet and lovely friendship.

[Akito Kinomoto]

I was one of those people who thought Ruby was going to be too manufactured for her own good. I got several degrees of legitimate heartwarming instead. I'm usually not a fan of exposition heavy content, but this knew exactly how to tell it and precisely what to show; it's like a microcosm of a good KEY story rolled into episode, and that is not a statement I make lightly

Hanamaru and Ruby were previously there just to be cute; now they're adorable on the inside~

[Windy]

I actually really appreciate the parallel (more like perpendicular) sunrise made between Rin and Hanamaru here. While Rin had the athletic ability (what with her doing track and what not), she didn't think she had the looks to shine as an idol. On the other hand, Hanamaru has the looks for sure, but she doesn't (currently) have the stamina.

Its actually pretty poetic how 'Maru looks to Rin for inspiration when she finally joins Aqours.

Edit: Haha, was trying to figure out the Dia/Ruby costumes. The Dancing Stars on Me cosplay is real~.

[Sagitta Luminis]

Rin is my best girl, so seeing her giving inspiration to Hanamaru got me really emotional. ;_;

[Tempester]

I cannot believe this shit. It's one thing to have Aqours have some parallels with μ's and make a reference here and there. It's another thing altogether to do it to the extent that this episode did. That flashback with Ruby and Dia was pretty much screaming to our faces "HEY HEY DID YOU KNOW RUBY IS HANAYO, ALSO DIA IS ELI." They could have just shown a distance shot of Hanamaru looking at a magazine with Rin in it for a second to show us that she admires Rin, but no, they had to zoom in on Rin's picture and have Ruby make an explicit remark about Rin's conflict being similar to Hanamaru's and even end the episode on a zoomed in shot of Rin like they're screaming "HEY HEY I HEARD YOU LIKE RIN, WELL HANAMARU IS RIN!" It's not even enough that they are shown using the roof for practice and working out by climbing hillsides like what μ's did, oh no they actually have to verbally tell us that "HEY μ's DID THIS TOO, LET'S DO IT TOO!"

Love Live was never subtle, but this went beyond lack of subtlety to the point where they were pretty much violently ramming the point into my head like a bloody spiked hammer. This stupid episode didn't give its characters a chance to shine on their own, it just kept on fellating μ's and jamming its characters into explicit μ's roles and personalities to mirror μ's in every damn way. As a μ's fan, should I be happy that μ's is getting this level of attention in this episode? No, I'm not. I'm fucking insulted.

Back in μ's' heyday I was expecting a 7th or 8th PV (Umi never got a center role yet and I was willing to vote for her) to continue the anime's legacy even after the anime ended but Sunrise heavily pushed the idea that "the anime is ending" = "μ's is over, no more PVs, etc." They also released a new PV for Aqours that I was initially very conflicted about; as a person who wanted more PVs from μ's it was honestly a little upsetting to see the new PV instead being given to these newbies that I didn't care anything about at the time. But I gave Aqours a chance, I went into the material, I watched the introductory videos and listened to the audio dramas. I followed the communities and downloaded a ton of fanart. And then I realized, I actually *liked* Aqours. They looked fun and interesting, and distinct enough from μ's to make a difference and be something new and fun.

But now the Sunshine anime is shifting the character personalities so that they can force them into μ's parallels and making constant nonstop comparisons to μ's with the subtlety of an elephant stampeding through a china shop. I thought we were supposed to get over μ's? I thought μ's was finished. This nonsense is opening up an old wound that I thought I could avoid. It's insulting to me as a viewer because Sunrise is trying to have their cake and eat it, they killed off μ's but at the same time it looks like they're not giving Aqours their chance to stand out as a great unique group and just keep them stuck inside the shadow of μ's. It's not like there aren't differences here and there from the original show, so I hope that this episode was just a fluke and that Sunshine will find its own place sooner or later. There's a chance that the drama with the 3rd years will play out differently after all.

[judasmartel]

Originally Posted by Tempester

There's a chance that the drama with the 3rd years will play out differently after all.

Speaking of the third years, I think they made an idol group some 1-2 years ago. They had high hopes for themselves, but probably they had a poor performance in LL so they were eliminated pretty early and went home to their city dejected and hopeless. I'm pretty sure that happens a lot when teams get eliminated early in the competition. Hopefully the succeeding episodes will explore more what really happened to the third years prior to the start of the story. Who knows, they may have actually faced Muse before and lost.

AGAIN, as for the similarities between Muse and Aqours, all I can say is, we really need to relax. I'm pretty sure they have something cooked up that will convince people Aqours is its group and Muse as a whole is only a reference to make it easier to write Aqours as a team as opposed to just a group of individuals with a common cause.

SO, let me ask you people. What do you think is the difference between an homage and a rip-off?

[Triple_R]

I completely get where Tempester is coming from, and this certainly isn't how I thought the Sunshine anime would turn out. This isn't my first choice for how the show would be.

However, there's still a lot of potential here, and some good positives. Aqours are very fun and likeable, overall. I am pleasantly surprised by how much I like Ruby, and Hanamaru is everything I could have hoped for.

Big picture-wise, I have mixed feelings on what Sunshine has chosen to do, but I can imagine ways it could be very effective in future episodes.

Originally Posted by judasmartel

SO, let me ask you people. What do you think is the difference between an homage and a rip-off?

The way I view it is that a homage feels less cynical. With a homage, you can kinda tell that what is being borrowed from is also being loved. Most cosplays are homages, for example.

A ripoff is cynically copying something without paying the original any significant respect.

Sunshine is clearly full of respect for the original Love Live, so I think it's more a homage than a ripoff.

[novalysis]

I have an alternate theory about the Third Years. They managed to break through all the way and were on the verge of making nationals. And then one of the girls had to leave the group in a Kotori-like or Honoka-like scenario analogous to the drama in the first season, which torpedoed the group's chances of making finals. But unlike Muse, the club never had a chance to recover, as Mari shortly afterwards left to study overseas.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by novalysis

I have an alternate theory about the Third Years. They managed to break through all the way and were on the verge of making nationals. And then Mari or one of the other girls had to leave the group in a Kotori-like or Honoka-like scenario, which torpedoed the group's chances of making finals. But unlike Muse, the club never had a chance to recover, as Mari shortly afterwards left to study overseas.

Yeah, I agree. Mari's reunion with Kanan in this episode strongly hinted at this, or something like it.

Dia, Kanan, and Mari were an idol trio at some point. Then Mari bailed for some reason, perhaps right on the verge of the trio competing in Love Live. Dia and Kanan understandably harbor hard feelings over this, and it probably hit both of them very hard. It likely caused Dia to feel heart-broken and turn her back on school idols.

[R.LocK]

I'm so conflicted. However, rather than laying out a blanket of words, I'll just say this: I don't think Chika'll stop making Aqours imitate Muse until Kanan comes back to school.

Alright then, now to positive stuff. It is nice to see that Sunrise and Lantis are going deep into girls' personalities. They're well more fleshed out than Muse were at the beginning. There's more food for thought, and dropping the whole "the school is going down" routine certainly helped. And...

And damn, was I waiting for Zuramaru's episode. It was sad, it was melancholic, it was fresh. I love this kind of story-telling, and the beginning of the episode was brilliant. Also, it had a nice shot of Yohane being Yohane. I like what they were going for with the whole Ruby-Maru dynamic, and the only thing missing for me in the whole episode is probably Maru singing in the choir. I got Ruby-Maru duet in the ED, so I'll have to settle for that, I guess.

[judasmartel]

Originally Posted by novalysis

I have an alternate theory about the Third Years. They managed to break through all the way and were on the verge of making nationals. And then one of the girls had to leave the group in a Kotori-like or Honoka-like scenario analogous to the drama in the first season, which torpedoed the group's chances of making finals. But unlike Muse, the club never had a chance to recover, as Mari shortly afterwards left to study overseas.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Yeah, I agree. Mari's reunion with Kanan in this episode strongly hinted at this, or something like it.

Dia, Kanan, and Mari were an idol trio at some point. Then Mari bailed for some reason, perhaps right on the verge of the trio competing in Love Live. Dia and Kanan understandably harbor hard feelings over this, and it probably hit both of them very hard. It likely caused Dia to feel heart-broken and turn her back on school idols.

I like this theory. Much better than mine. No wonder Mari approved Chika's idol club so quickly. She probably wants to make up for whatever she did to cost her old group a chance to make it to the nationals.

[Tempester]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I completely get where Tempester is coming from, and this certainly isn't how I thought the Sunshine anime would turn out. This isn't my first choice for how the show would be.

I'm glad that you seem to understand my issues with Sunshine episode 4 even if you enjoyed the episode more. It's not like the episode was the worst thing ever (a friend of mine hated the episode even more because they heavily despise Ruby), there were still a few fun and interesting moments in the episode especially with the 3rd year girls. It's just that the cynical side of me just can't help but criticize the ridiculous parallels to the original anime. I *want* Aqours to win over my heart and I *want* to see Sunshine become a great anime I could put among my favorite shows of this season or even this year, I just can't agree with the apparent agenda behind it that's limiting its potential.

[R.LocK]

Originally Posted by judasmartel

SO, let me ask you people. What do you think is the difference between an homage and a rip-off?

I'd like to think that I pioneered the whole "it's all a beautiful homage to the original" notion here.

And well, for a rip-off, you'll need a carbon copy of something without any improvement over the original, made by people who weren't involved in the making of the original. At least, that's my take on it.