Attack on Titan - Episode 57 Discussion / Poll

[Kairin]

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[Kanon]

They covered more ground than I expected. I thought they would flesh some parts out.

This episode provided more answers than you'd have imagined, and raised a few questions in the process.

Spoiler for episode content:

Most shocking revelations were Zeke/Beast titan being Eren's brother, and Grisha's former wife being the titan who killed Eren's mother.

[Mad Pierrot]

So the "Kawai Titan" from season 1 was born here?

[Nivek von Beldo]

Wonder if the mangaka did played tactics ogre when younger, the whole eldian marley people remind me a lot how the valerian island unify of the previous king roderick regime versus Dorgula own regime, and the whole paralel the ethno-religious mess the balkans are.

And loved Owl was that guy all along. so another court martial for eren?

[Wandering Soul]

At the rate they were going I thought they would finish the flashback in one episode.

So Zeke is actually Eren's half brother, though Eren had the benefit of being raised by Grisha after he seemingly learned a few lessons about parenting. Also, Dina's promise is funny considering how finding her way to Grisha led her to his home where she killed his current wife.

[maximilianjenus]

I'd say that eren got a better mother because grisha was quite a bad parent to eren too.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot

So the "Kawai Titan" from season 1 was born here?

I believe most if not all of the titans created in this episode were seen and killed in earlier seasons.

[Haak]

Wow, there’s a lot to unpack here.

So first of all let me get this out of the way: I totally didn’t expect Grisha’s sister to just be killed off like that - That was abrupt as hell. However, finding out later that she was killed by a pack of dogs unleashed by the police was horrifying. Even more horrifying than being eaten by a titan, considering a titan doesn’t understand what it’s doing. The story did a great job making that Sargent who killed Grisha's sister truly despicable in his hypocrisy and shamelessness. Ironically he got the fate I thought Grisha's sister would get. XP

So Eren’s country are a race called Eldians. Ironically a country that is now besieged by Titans was originally the founder and user of these Titans. And apparently they practised oppression and “eugenics” but of course that was ancient history and the King’s shying away from conflict ultimately led them to be oppressed…okay, it’s kinda hard to ignore some pretty obvious far right victim complex tropes here. It’s hard to ignore how despicably evil these Marlyans are and how cruel they to the people they oppress and the Eldian’s only crime is having a dark past in ancient history is kind of laughable if it’s meant to be analogous to the Japanese who supported Nazi’s in WW2. Also kinda hard to ignore that the Eldians fled to a small island on the East...

Then again, I’m not entirely sure it’s that simple either. Fundamentally, even without the Marlyans making things worse, the Eldians are still caged in walls besieged by weapons of their own creation. And Grisha isn’t entirely being painted in a good light here. His fundamentalism ultimately turned his son against him. And then there’s that perverse bit of irony that Grisha’s first wife promises him that regardless of turning into a mindless titan her love is so strong that she’d find him again….and that love ends up leading her to Eren’s house where she eats Grisha’s second wife. If the story is treating Grisha as being righteous it sure isn’t rewarding him for it. And then there’s that King Fritz/Reiss who Kenny was friends with. He obviously sides with his supposedly coward ancestor who retreated to the island but he was portrayed in a totally admirable light. He was seen as wise and respectable and portrayed far more positively than Grisha.

But for me the biggest bombshell is that the whole situation has shifted to an entire new perspective now. The titans aren’t all humans after all: just one specific race of humans. The show went from “Humanity verses Titans” to what is basically a conflict between two countries that one of those two didn’t even know they were in. I don't know how to feel about that. On the one hand this new perspective feels a lot more grounded and complex than the glorified zombie invasion plot we had before but on the other hand what's not very grounded is the rather incredulous fact that there could be a conflict between two sides without one side even knowing, as well the rather unfortunate far right undertones in the plot.

One thing that bugs me though: Like I said, it’s ironic that the same race of humans is so besieged by the very thing that characterises them but it’s also rather weird that despite Marlyans hating Eldians for being titans, they have absolutely no issue creating more titans and letting them run amok. That I just don’t get.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Haak

So Eren’s country are a race called Eldians. Ironically a country that is now besieged by Titans was originally the founder and user of these Titans. And apparently they practised oppression and “eugenics” but of course that was ancient history and the King’s shying away from conflict ultimately led them to be oppressed…okay, it’s kinda hard to ignore some pretty obvious far right victim complex tropes here. It’s hard to ignore how despicably evil these Marlyans are and how cruel they to the people they oppress and the Eldian’s only crime is having a dark past in ancient history is kind of laughable if it’s meant to be analogous to the Japanese who supported Nazi’s in WW2. Also kinda hard to ignore that the Eldians fled to a small island on the East...

Just a point: there is no reliable historical account. Everyone you hear talk about the ancient past has an agenda, or got it from someone who did.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by far right undertones.

(Note: I didn't have the courage to watch the episode. Reading it was bad enough.)

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Just a point: there is no reliable historical account. Everyone you hear talk about the ancient past has an agenda, or got it from someone who did.

I think the fact that even the Eldian's dark history is subject to the doubt of historical revisionism just makes the victim complex tropes even worse.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by far right undertones.

Mainly the victim complex tropes but also rather obvious hard on this show has with militarism

[Mad Pierrot]

So we got the ending of season 2 for the Fonding Titan. Guess Isayama trusted Wit a lot to make that foreshadowing in the anime's vid. Also, the use of Norse mythology. Wonder what exactly happened to the Ymir from the first two seasons.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Haak

Mainly the victim complex tropes

It's probably because of something I don't know about the far right but I don't follow. Would you care to explain what you mean?

I mean, I can see the common Eldians (both those left in Marley and on the island) are victims. But how is that a far right thing? Isn't it a component of populist movements of the right and left?

but also rather obvious hard on this show has with militarism

Does it have one? I mean, yes, the MC and all his friends are military, and we're dealing with a war, even if we didn't quite know that till now, but aside from that... At first, most of the military was either useless or corrupt. And those who weren't had atrocious fatality rates, and they died ugly. Also, not a lot of military pageantry. They all have one uniform except for the patches, no rank insignia, and the uniform code is a bit loose on the details. Plus, I think there's only 4 ranks. Commander in chief, corps commander, squad leader, grunt.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It's probably because of something I don't know about the far right but I don't follow. Would you care to explain what you mean?

I mean, I can see the common Eldians (both those left in Marley and on the island) are victims. But how is that a far right thing? Isn't it a component of populist movements of the right and left?

TL;DR…

 

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Haak

Then again, I’m not entirely sure it’s that simple either. Fundamentally, even without the Marlyans making things worse, the Eldians are still caged in walls besieged by weapons of their own creation. And Grisha isn’t entirely being painted in a good light here. His fundamentalism ultimately turned his son against him. And then there’s that perverse bit of irony that Grisha’s first wife promises him that regardless of turning into a mindless titan her love is so strong that she’d find him again….and that love ends up leading her to Eren’s house where she eats Grisha’s second wife. If the story is treating Grisha as being righteous it sure isn’t rewarding him for it. And then there’s that King Fritz/Reiss who Kenny was friends with. He obviously sides with his supposedly coward ancestor who retreated to the island but he was portrayed in a totally admirable light. He was seen as wise and respectable and portrayed far more positively than Grisha.

One thing that bugs me though: Like I said, it’s ironic that the same race of humans is so besieged by the very thing that characterises them but it’s also rather weird that despite Marlyans hating Eldians for being titans, they have absolutely no issue creating more titans and letting them run amok. That I just don’t get.

Whatever King Fritz's reasons were for isolating most of his race from the rest of the world and brainwashing them, he must have had really good ones considering that after inheriting his memories, all of his descendants respected his will.

The Marleyans are creating titans on Paradis island. The only people they bother are their fellow Eldians living on the island, and we know from Ymir's account that being a mindless titan is hell, so they probably see this as a fitting punishment for the "devils" who rebel against them.

[Jan-Poo]

It's interesting to note that what the fat Marleyan officer said about the world wanting to eradicate every single Eldian is almost word per word what Eren said about the titans after they destroyed Shiganshina, when he made a vow to kill them all.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Whatever King Fritz's reasons were for isolating most of his race from the rest of the world and brainwashing them, he must have had really good ones considering that after inheriting his memories, all of his descendants respected his will.

The Marleyans are creating titans on Paradis island. The only people they bother are their fellow Eldians living on the island, and we know from Ymir's account that being a mindless titan is hell, so they probably see this as a fitting punishment for the "devils" who rebel against them.

But wasn't the point of a member of the royal bloodline inheriting the Founding Titan the fact that they had the will of that King literally being force them to the point where no matter what they originally thought they would follow his will no questions asked? I wouldn't exactly call that "respecting" his will.

[TheForsaken]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

But wasn't the point of a member of the royal bloodline inheriting the Founding Titan the fact that they had the will of that King literally being force them to the point where no matter what they originally thought they would follow his will no questions asked? I wouldn't exactly call that "respecting" his will.

How do you know that it is the case?
The will of the first King overriding his successors' is merely a speculation, a theory to explain why every king since the first King did exactly the same thing.
But it's entirely possible that they did that on their own free wills.

[Chosen_Hero]

^Because Historias' father literally said that his brother and his daughter had a big change in their disposition and ideals when they inherited the Founding Titan. It was also mentioned that the reason neither of them used their power to control Titans to break the walls and let their people free was because the will of the king prevented them from doing so and they just instantly gave up.

[TheForsaken]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

^Because Historias' father literally said that his brother and his daughter had a big change in their disposition and ideals when they inherited the Founding Titan. It was also mentioned that the reason neither of them used their power to control Titans to break the walls and let their people free was because the will of the king prevented them from doing so and they just instantly gave up.

Mentioned by who?
Someone who is not a king does not know what happens in a king's head. He only speculates.
It's possible that they just changed their minds after knowing the truth. Simple like that.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Whatever King Fritz's reasons were for isolating most of his race from the rest of the world and brainwashing them, he must have had really good ones considering that after inheriting his memories, all of his descendants respected his will.

Oh right. For some reason it didn't click with me that Paradis Island is the same island as Eren's country. I guess I just thought that the sea was closer to the outer wall which they couldn't see from where they were. I guess that explains why the Owl attacked the boat though I'm hoping there's a good reason why didn't do that much sooner.

The Marleyans are creating titans on Paradis island. The only people they bother are their fellow Eldians living on the island, and we know from Ymir's account that being a mindless titan is hell, so they probably see this as a fitting punishment for the "devils" who rebel against them.

Honestly my first thought in their shoes would be that in creating and sending titans to a race of people who were the original masters of such power, there's too much of a strong potential that they would be inadvertently making them stronger.

But man, these Marleyan's attack on Eldians are pretty damn coordinated. I guess I can understand why Grisha felt the need to attack the royals the way they did. This is a nation hellbent on waging war against the Eldians and have now killed his second wife and the royals aren't doing a damn thing. I really do hope the royals have damn good reason for being this inactive because its starting to look like another piece of right wing commentary divorced from reality (Japan is currently debating with itself on its pacifist philosophy).