Log Horizon S2 - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Krono

Letting her get killed will not necessarily improve things. She's a member of Minami's equivalent of the Round Table council, and a high ranking lander. Her dying would destabilize Minami for a while, and create a power vacuum among the landers that would not necessarily be filled by someone better.

The big issue would be a adventuer kill a lander. Which has never happen before. It reinforce the fact that adventuers are immortal monsters that are currently allie to landers but can turn on them anytime

[Yan3242]

I know sorc has weak pyshical defense but, to be killed by level 68 lander? Londark what the hell your char is equiped with? Green tier stuff?

That red hair lady is definitely the villain aspect in this series so i have no problem if she get killed, plus she is crazy anyway

Agree on tohya, just help the town like your friends instead trying to debate with those moron.

I really dont see how the morality of death as adventurer is a serious issue here, yes you lost something everytime you die but, different person different taste, just because other people has different view from yours doesnt mean you can just butt in and yell that they are wrong, if they are the only one who get the risk and burden and not others, then let them be

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Yan3242

I really dont see how the morality of death as adventurer is a serious issue here, yes you lost something everytime you die but, different person different taste, just because other people has different view from yours doesnt mean you can just butt in and yell that they are wrong, if they are the only one who get the risk and burden and not others, then let them be

I agree. You may think it's foolish, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Even supposing that they will lose all memories of their past lives, isn't that for the better in the end? Once that happens they'll stop grieving for what they have left behind.
The only moral argument that could be made is about them involving landers in their mass suicide rituals.

I must be honest, I still have no clue what this whole operation was meant to achieve.

[The Green One]

Originally Posted by Yan3242

I know sorc has weak pyshical defense but, to be killed by level 68 lander? Londark what the hell your char is equiped with? Green tier stuff?

That red hair lady is definitely the villain aspect in this series so i have no problem if she get killed, plus she is crazy anyway

Agree on tohya, just help the town like your friends instead trying to debate with those moron.

I really dont see how the morality of death as adventurer is a serious issue here, yes you lost something everytime you die but, different person different taste, just because other people has different view from yours doesnt mean you can just butt in and yell that they are wrong, if they are the only one who get the risk and burden and not others, then let them be

It wasn't that Londark was killed by the Lander, it was being picked up by the whip and chcked into the moving gear of the train and being ground into pulp.

I'm surprised that no one commented on how Nyanta was able to just casually slice through spells to stop them Kirito style.

[Nicaea]

Originally Posted by The Green One

It wasn't that Londark was killed by the Lander, it was being picked up by the whip and chcked into the moving gear of the train and being ground into pulp.

I'm surprised that no one commented on how Nyanta was able to just casually slice through spells to stop them Kirito style.

I found that to be kind of fitting for Nyanta. Also, if Nyanta trully swung his swords with intent, both Mizufa and Londark would have died.

[Yan3242]

Nyanta parrying magic attack didnt surprise me considering you can "manually" avoid magic attack so cutting or blocking simple magic attack with pyshical object seems possible to me.

As for tohya and others, i wonder if they get their wyvern item stuff they looking for there should be plenty of it by now

[FRS]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

...
I must be honest, I still have no clue what this whole operation was meant to achieve.

The reasons were not cleary stated as in the novels.

IIRC:

Spoiler:

The main reason was to powerlevel the summons operators, messing with a neutral town was a side bonus

[Tormenk]

So what are the effects of the 43rd song everyone's been alluding to in this thread?

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by FRS

The reasons were not cleary stated as in the novels.

IIRC:

Spoiler:

The main reason was to powerlevel the summons operators, messing with a neutral town was a side bonus

It's exactly that "side bonus" that I don't understand. With all the monster infested areas in the world including dungeons and raid dungeons, why did they have to level up in an urban landscape?

Moreover why did they decide to attack the portable altars? I suppose that might be because they knew that in doing so the knights would bring them to the city. But then again I don't understand the logic of "they are attacking altars -> let's fight in the city".

[DQueenie13]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

It's exactly that "side bonus" that I don't understand. With all the monster infested areas in the world including dungeons and raid dungeons, why did they have to level up in an urban landscape?

Moreover why did they decide to attack the portable altars? I suppose that might be because they knew that in doing so the knights would bring them to the city. But then again I don't understand the logic of "they are attacking altars -> let's fight in the city".

I haven't seen the episode so I'm not sure what kind of dialogue went down, but the light novel makes it more obvious.

Spoiler for LN information that probably should have been mentioned in the episode:

Mizufa wants a war. Sapphir/the town is under Eastal control, I'm pretty sure, and she wants to powerlevel her Lander summoners and, in the process, destroy the town so that it'll spark a war with Eastal.

[Kirke]

Originally Posted by Tormenk

So what are the effects of the 43rd song everyone's been alluding to in this thread?

They made the 43rd a little different in the anime than the light novel so idk how the anime is going to explain it. If you want to know I would suggest checking out the light novel thread or wiki for quick details. I'm not going to say anything in this thread.

[mergele]

Oh god, that was horrible. I thought this to be a mediocre arc for LH standards, but this episode was so awful, no way.
I got, that Plant Hwyaden wants to powerlevel their landers, but why in a fuking town? (Yes I know from this thread, that the city is in another kingdom, but thats something the series should sometimes tell me.)
Why was that damm train moving? Where was it headed? During the whole fight the train was rushing somewhere, so I thought they had a goal and just used the opportiunity for some levelling, but if this city was their goal, why didn't they stop?
Did he really just destroy that train part? Trains are absolute hightech in that world! And what is with whatever is inside? I don't assume you would just take an empty train comaprtment with you?
And Isuzu... I don't wanna talk about her and the damm songs.

[FRS]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

It's exactly that "side bonus" that I don't understand. With all the monster infested areas in the world including dungeons and raid dungeons, why did they have to level up in an urban landscape?

Moreover why did they decide to attack the portable altars? I suppose that might be because they knew that in doing so the knights would bring them to the city. But then again I don't understand the logic of "they are attacking altars -> let's fight in the city".

Spoiler:

The city is not under PH sphere of influence, by razing it MIzufa is attacking Eastal influences and ressources.

The Knights were holding the wyverms hordes with their respawn/rush tactics, by attacking the altars it distract them thus allowing the wyverms to reach the city.
And it mess with Adventurers which i suppose is a big bonus in Mizufa's eye.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by FRS

Spoiler:

The city is not under PH sphere of influence, by razing it MIzufa is attacking Eastal influences and ressources.

The Knights were holding the wyverms hordes with their respawn/rush tactics, by attacking the altars it distract them thus allowing the wyverms to reach the city.
And it mess with Adventurers which i suppose is a big bonus in Mizufa's eye.

I suppose that works, but that means the knights were not part of the operation but actually a hindrance to it. Wasn't it said that everyone in Minami was forced to enlist in PH? That should include them, right?

It seems apparent that Mizufa wasn't acting completely on her own accord, because once Nureha gave the order she retreated.

Then what about the suicidal knights? Couldn't PH just communicate to them, if not to help with the operation, to not interfere?
Was it really necessary to essentially attack fellow guild members?

[DQueenie13]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I suppose that works, but that means the knights were not part of the operation but actually a hindrance to it. Wasn't it said that everyone in Minami was forced to enlist in PH? That should include them, right?

It seems apparent that Mizufa wasn't acting completely on her own accord, because once Nureha gave the order she retreated.

Then what about the suicidal knights? Couldn't PH just communicate to them, if not to help with the operation, to not interfere?
Was it really necessary to essentially attack fellow guild members?

Well, since Plant Hwyaden absorbed all the guilds in Minami, it's not unimaginable that some people don't really agree with the guild's actions and just go do their own thing, like the Odyssea Knights.

Spoiler for LN content that really should have been covered:

I haven't watched this arc's episodes since I'm going to marathon them, but to my knowledge, Nureha hasn't revealed how she took over Minami like she did in the light novel (which took place right before Indicus went in her room to mock her). It reveals that she took over not only Minami, but also the nearby Adventurer City Nakasu as well, by controlling the Lander nobles and using them for her bidding.

With the nobles under her thumb, it's possible that Mizufa listens to Nureha only because of her status, which means that disobeying Nureha would get her in trouble with her fellow nobles.

[FRS]

@Jan-Poo

You are assuming that everyone is working in the same direction in PH, the show have showed us that this is not the case.

[Ickarium]

Yeah. PH is basically a huge group of conflicting people. They are working together because of some stuff Nureha did (I don't recall if the anime mentioned it so am not saying as I don't want to get in trouble) but they DO NOT get along and they are not all on one page. This is a bonus that Akiba has, even if at the same time they are more diffuse because they don't have a totally top down leadership structure.

There's probably at least five or more different ideologies/goals among the leadership of PH. Possibly more.

[mergele]

It was mentioned at the end of season one, that with money from the landers she bought the cathedral and took over the city.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

The big issue would be a adventuer kill a lander. Which has never happen before. It reinforce the fact that adventuers are immortal monsters that are currently allie to landers but can turn on them anytime

I'm willing to bet it's happened before back when Brigandia was rampaging around, kidnapping and enslaving people.

That's not the sort of activity that avoids killing people. Sure they wouldn't be able to kill anyone in Susukino unless they were willing to die once themselves, but anyone outside of Susukino itself would be fair game.

[Tuor]

Yeah, I figured that as Brigandia didn't consider Landers to be people back then (which I'm guessing still holds true with many players), killing them off to take their stuff wouldn't have even been a moral issue for them. I'm pretty sure that at least *some* Landers have died at the hands of Players.