GATE - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[Kairin]

Welcome to the discussion thread for GATE, Episode 20.

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[Stark700]

Preview:

[Brother Coa]

So Lelei's sister joined Itami's crew?
Didn't she stayed in the Academic City in LN?

[francescoG1]

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

So Lelei's sister joined Itami's crew?
Didn't she stayed in the Academic City in LN?

The problem is (I only read summaries):

Spoiler:

They should remain in the city. There are another attack in hotel but they decide to remain there

Anime original?

[Stark700]

Ah an episode with Sherry as the focus. Sugawara's interference was a pleasant sight to see as well. Glad to see the Imperial Empire take action this episode as well.

Damn, I wanted see the battle at the end in full D:

[blakstealth]

So Sugawara saved his girl but not Casel. lmao awesome

[konart]

Being russian - I must say I have some strange feelings about Zorzal using Oprichnina. It's frightens and warms me at the same time, lol.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by blakstealth

So Sugawara saved his girl but not Casel. lmao awesome

I'm sure he, like everyone in the JSDF, wanted to save him and all those who supported them, but they can't. He had to use baseless logic that even he knew didn't hold water just to save Sherry, but even if someone said he could save his bride, such an allowance wouldn't go so far as to save his bride's relative. The connection there was too thin and would clearly be an act of asylum, at which point like they said they'd be opening the gates for ANYONE who wanted asylum and in turn welcoming action from Zolzal's army in retaliation for interfering with their internal affairs. I just hope Sherry realizes just how much this is going to affect Sugawara; he's taken a lot of risks and made some big sacrifices in defying orders for her.

At least he accepted her claim, fellow's going to have the most beautiful and terrifyingly brilliant bride ever. She's already able to handle diplomacy with ease at a mere twelve years, I don't want to know how good she'll be after four more years under the care of a professional diplomat. On a side note, when he embraced her, they chose an odd camera angle; for a second I thought he was kissing her.

[Anh_Minh]

Casel was right - she was definitely the most dangerous person in that house.

I don't understand Japan's position. Why must they weaken themselves so? They're showing themselves to be shitty allies to the doves, while not doing a thing against the hawks. What's the point of being a dove, then? Why can't Japan give up on Zorzal (and really, they should have given up on Molt) and just work their way down the succession line till they find someone they can work with?

Originally Posted by francescoG1

The problem is (I only read summaries):

Spoiler:

They should remain in the city. There are another attack in hotel but they decide to remain there

Anime original?

Spoiler for uninformed answer:

They can always go back. They are, in fact, relatively likely to, since all nearby major roads probably lead to Rondel as the local big city.

[Skaddix]

Orders from the top I suppose it reminds me a little of the Prime Directive ie no direct interference in the government of the Empire. And seeing how the Emperor went down putting Pina in charge as something that would like a puppet to most aint saving her from an assassination.

[Brother Coa]

I on the other hand fail to see why Japan bothered with diplomacy at all and didn't just outright conquer the entire Empire. Surely many would support them seeing how Empire itself is not the most loved country around. Never mind that Empire itself invade them, took their people as slaves and killed many other. That alone is enough reason for any country in the world to declare war and enter open hostilities with the other side, engaging them in open combat without any fear of consequences or that their actions may be wrong.

Ah yes - civilian logic "they attacked us and killed our people so best that we leave them alone and hope they will not attack us again". Public liberal support is this anime no. 1 reason why everything is so slow and why things get so complicated later on.

Japanese diplomats and public critics fail to understand that 1BC Empire does not have the same morals and understandings as 21'st century country. And this is evident trough the entire series. The only reason they will understand is brute military force. Exactly why only actions of SDF provided any results at all.

[thundrakkon]

I have so much mix feelings about this. On the one hand, Sugawara doing the dramatic save was awesome. He gave into his human emotions and saved Sherry. On the other hand, she's only TWELVE years old. That embrace was churning me inside with so much confusion. Is that right? Is that wrong? Do you really propose to a 12 years old, even if she has the mental capabilities of someone much, much older? I feel really torn.

Quote

Originally Posted by blakstealth

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Well, he did come up with a reason to, with Sherry being his "fiancee". He didn't have a strong diplomatic reason for Casel. However, with this, everyone is forced into action. Japan can no longer afford to sit back, as the Empire will try to attack soon. If this ends up being like a Bengazi, then I'm sure the JSDF will come in and rescue their ambassadors.

Still, I wonder how Itami will come into play in all of this? He always ends up getting involved somehow. Pina will be in trouble soon, so he might be heading to the capital to save her as well as get revenge for the attempted assassinations of Lelei.

We still have not seen Delilah since that fateful night, so I'm sure she will come back to eliminate Tyuule. The emperor has not officially died yet, so he will probably come back into play as well. Also, after seeing what Zorzal has done while he was away, the emperor will probably take away Zorzal's title as crown prince and swiftly "remove" Zorzal.

Edit:

Quote

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

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You really have to put modern civilization views on these things. Say, for example, China decides to invade Okinawa with military force. After the JSDF and US Military fend off the invasion, does that then give them the right to invade and conquer China? In our modern society, the approach next is diplomacy and trying to get China to compensate for the invasion. Furthermore, boycotts and sanctions will probably be put in place. This situation applies to the Empire as well, since Japan is using modern politics.

[Top Sergeant]

The coming war could legitimately be titled "Tyuule's War".

I very much enjoyed seeing a switch in the main character focus this week. And the orders from the Japanese government reminded me very much of insanely restrictive ROE (Rules of Engagement).

We got more Knights! Beefeater (a famous British gin) is the only one I can remember at the moment.

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by blakstealth

So Sugawara saved his girl but not Casel. lmao awesome

I'm sure he wanted to save Casel, but unlike Sherry he didn't have an excuse to save him. Honestly even with Sherry, it's possible that his logic wouldn't have worked. He's also probably in enough hot water for just saving her.

On the plus side Sugawara is going to have an amazing wife. That guy she got food from was right, she is going to be scary when she is older.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Casel was right - she was definitely the most dangerous person in that house.

I don't understand Japan's position. Why must they weaken themselves so? They're showing themselves to be shitty allies to the doves, while not doing a thing against the hawks. What's the point of being a dove, then? Why can't Japan give up on Zorzal (and really, they should have given up on Molt) and just work their way down the succession line till they find someone they can work with?

History shows that this generally doesn't work so well. When it becomes absolutely necessary and the people themselves are calling for Zolzal's head, then they can cut him down, but as good as they look right now killing off rulers until they find one that'll work with them would make them look very bad to the local people. They want to come across as friendly neighbors who want to have mutually-profitable trade, while demonstrating that for every bit they can be good neighbors they can also be bad enemies. But killing a ruler within weeks of his rise to power just because he doesn't want to surrender could really come around to bit them.

[Anh_Minh]

But they aren't bad enemies right now. They're bad allies. It's the opposite of what they want to appear.

And "historically", a very strong country telling a weaker one which ruler it should have is nothing new, nor is it something that hasn't worked in the past. Considering where the SR people are in their own history, it's something they'd understand.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

But they aren't bad enemies right now. They're bad allies. It's the opposite of what they want to appear.

And "historically", a very strong country telling a weaker one which ruler it should have is nothing new, nor is it something that hasn't worked in the past. Considering where the SR people are in their own history, it's something they'd understand.

If they go and kill Zolzal that will make them very bad allies. Past seems to point to people not being treated all that well if they go and kill the ruler just so they can put someone more malleable on the throne. And as long as they leave Zolzal in charge, harboring those he deems traitors and enemies will make them absolute enemies. They don't want to be enemies at all, they just want to make it clear that if you make enemies of them you'll be in a bad way. They know from history that even if he's a dictator war is not a pretty thing and going to war too soon will damage their relations. They know that things are going to change, giving them a better opening or excuse to take Zolzal out, but now is not the time. That's why everyone on all levels had been saying the time will come but not now. They don't intend to let all their allies rot in prison or die at the end of a rope, but they also don't want to do too much too soon.

[Klashikari]

The other problem is that Japan is at the center of attention on earth for being the only nation going beyond the Gate. As such, if people learn Japan has forgone diplomacy and directly seized control over the Empire, internal AND international conflicts will surely arise.

Considering how many countries were shown quite interested by the Gate as well, they could use that scenario as an excuse to revoke Japan's authority on any matter regarding the Gate.

[Skaddix]

yeah international pressure would mount, I mean sure they might not know much about the World past the GATE but Japan in sole control of Magic and access to a planets worth of Resources yeah that is not going down well.

Honestly, they probably hope Zolzal burns himself out being an idiot...inserting a puppet leader has very rarely ended well in history.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I don't understand Japan's position. Why must they weaken themselves so? They're showing themselves to be shitty allies to the doves, while not doing a thing against the hawks. What's the point of being a dove, then? Why can't Japan give up on Zorzal (and really, they should have given up on Molt) and just work their way down the succession line till they find someone they can work with?

Because you can't spout off about peace and friendship, and then viciously murder anyone who doesn't oblige. That's not how this works. Remember, they have to answer to the rest of the UN in regards to the Gate. We've already seen there are spies reporting to other countries about the goings-ons within the Gate.