Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

[

Spoiler:

There is (at least in the novel) a rather heavy emphasis on how the entire, never-ending fight against terrorists (and his obsession with shouldering most if not all of the burden) is slowly but surely whittling him down, to the point where it is negatively affecting his relationship with Lacus (missed dinner, etc.) and he even starts wondering whether Durandal actually had the right answer to the problem.

He is stuck with a really Sisyphean challenge where he internalizes all of his issues and, when Lacus seemingly betrays him, it just becomes too much to bear and he at long last starts spiraling. All in all, the Kira seen in the movie is one that has fought for so long that he is on the verge of giving up.

Hell, in the novel (dunno if the movie shows this), Kira and Lacus do just that at the end after the final battle - they go AWOL, almost Shiro Amada and Aina Sahalin-style. They realize they have given too much of themselves and need to heal by themselves. The world can go hang itself in the meantime.

Spoiler for response to novel spoilers:

So basically Kira reverts to how he was when Flay was manipulating him and put the burden of protecting the Archangel all on himself that spiraled to the Strike vs Aegis fight. Instead of getting an epic battle of that spiral, we get Kira getting bright slapped

[cyberdemon]

Spoiler for Movie:

going awol was a smart move. Those who know the accords abilities would never trust Lacus again for being proclaimed one. They would always think she is controlling their minds. Or would be hounding her to use it. Few know it but if it leaks she is finished. Their friends trust her but it would make things difficult.

Kira might not be widely know as an “ultimate coordinator” and he has show some slight potential as an accord. I think that is why they hounded him so hard. The accords were actually scared of his potential. The mighty strike freedom also destroyed the almost the fleet easily even if he needed Lacus’ permission. He’d probably be targeted by assassins hoping to get the Freedom and the threat he poses. They’ve simply gone back to early Destiny lifestyle but much happier. Not just a potential gf taking care of a guy with ptsd. Their story is likely over except in a shadow mentor capacity

[Renegade334]

@cyberdemon:

Spoiler for novel:

At the end of the novel, nobody knows where Kira and Lacus (and the Mighty Strike Freedom, for that part) are. Athrun and Cagalli appear to be in the dark, too...although there is one passage that might suggest they do know. That part is written ambiguously enough that you can interpret it both ways. Still, they do not give in to intense international interest and diplomatic pressure to actively ascertain the missing pair's whereabouts. They know that, emotionally speaking, both Kira and Lacus are essentially at the ends of their respective ropes and no one has the right to force them to pick up where they left off (COMPASS).

Thereupon Athrun and Cagalli resolve themselves to keep fighting in their stead, even if the urge to give up is always there, nipping at their heels.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

@cyberdemon:

Spoiler for novel:

At the end of the novel, nobody knows where Kira and Lacus (and the Mighty Strike Freedom, for that part) are. Athrun and Cagalli appear to be in the dark, too...although there is one passage that might suggest they do know. That part is written ambiguously enough that you can interpret it both ways. Still, they do not give in to intense international interest and diplomatic pressure to actively ascertain the missing pair's whereabouts. They know that, emotionally speaking, both Kira and Lacus are essentially at the ends of their respective ropes and no one has the right to force them to pick up where they left off (COMPASS).

Thereupon Athrun and Cagalli resolve themselves to keep fighting in their stead, even if the urge to give up is always there, nipping at their heels.

I’m only talking on a political level. They’d definitely would want this anyway. The accords just gave them the excuse and means

[monster]

Ok, I just got back from the second viewing, this time with English dub instead of sub, and I like the movie even more.

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan

Yes, there is a new dub cast for the HD Remaster release of the TV series that came out on Blu-Ray within the past few years. There are a lot of comments from people online bashing this dub, but I think it's mostly a knee jerk reaction from people who wanted the old cast back. Personally I like it. The actor performances are a little better and the script is closer to the Japanese. I'm also going back tonight to see it dubbed.

Is this the same remaster where they cut the episodes into like 48 or is there a new remaster?

I actually also like the English version, especially Kira's and Lacus's voice actors.

I also like how they pronounce the name of Lacus. It's still close enough to how I would pronounce it if I were just to see the spelling, although sometimes it can also sound like they're saying locust.

And speaking of Lacus, was I mistaken or did I see in the credit that her English voice actor is also the English casting director?

One thing that I like regarding the difference between the Enlish and Japanese voice actors is that the English voice actors sound more normal to me (less overly emotive/expressive in delivery), which makes for a nice contrast when they do get to be expressive depending on the situation. On the other hand, the Japanese voice actors make the characters more unique with their expressiveness.

I personally can appreciate both types and like it if both options are available.

Originally Posted by Renegade334

Spoiler:

There is (at least in the novel) a rather heavy emphasis on how the entire, never-ending fight against terrorists (and his obsession with shouldering most if not all of the burden) is slowly but surely whittling him down, to the point where it is negatively affecting his relationship with Lacus (missed dinner, etc.) and he even starts wondering whether Durandal actually had the right answer to the problem.

He is stuck with a really Sisyphean challenge where he internalizes all of his issues and, when Lacus seemingly betrays him, it just becomes too much to bear and he at long last starts spiraling. All in all, the Kira seen in the movie is one that has fought for so long that he is on the verge of giving up.

Hell, in the novel (dunno if the movie shows this), Kira and Lacus do just that at the end after the final battle - they go AWOL, almost Shiro Amada and Aina Sahalin-style. They realize they have given too much of themselves and need to heal by themselves. The world can go hang itself in the meantime.

Spoiler for Kira:

I do think the movie portrays that, but after seeing the movie a second time, I think it makes more sense to me that, in addition to what you said, Kira's mind manipulation was also still having some lingering effect, as it seems some of his words echoed the words that those guys were saying to him.

[Renegade334]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Spoiler for Movie:

going awol was a smart move. Those who know the accords abilities would never trust Lacus again for being proclaimed one. They would always think she is controlling their minds. Or would be hounding her to use it.

Spoiler:

There is no evidence that the Accords' abilities were ever leaked to the public, but, at the end of the novel, the world is actually rather divided on the subject of their former, wannabe overlords.

Some reject the genocidal and ruthless Foundation regime, while others are actually supportive of it. It's nothing really surprising - there are whole demographic swathes that are sensitive to the appeal of autocratic regimes and the promise of a peaceful society, even if that imperial peace is fundamentally steeped in blood and oppression. And with the EA's past record, it's no surprise some countries or regions still want to jump ship.

The more worrisome problem, however, is PLANT. Chairman Lament's severe punishment of the failed coup's participants and sympathizers ended up deeply dividing the population and the numbers of those seeing Jagganath's actions in a positive light are growing. Groundwork for a sequel OVA/series/movie?

Even Blue Cosmos is aware that there is an opportunity to be seized there. Despite its losses, it is becoming more active.

The world emerging at the end of the movie/novel is quite a polarized one, less stable than before the conflict started.

Hence why many are anxious for the return of Kira and Lacus, the personal toll on their minds and souls be damned.

[John117xCortana]

Spoiler for spoiler:

I think after what they've done and what they've been through they deserve to rest.

[Obi-Wan]

Originally Posted by monster

Ok, I just got back from the second viewing, this time with English dub instead of sub, and I like the movie even more.

Is this the same remaster where they cut the episodes into like 48 or is there a new remaster?

And speaking of Lacus, was I mistaken or did I see in the credit that her English voice actor is also the English casting director?

It's the same HD remaster that cut the original series down to 48 episodes by removing 2 recap episodes. That remaster was done in Japan a while ago but was only recently released on BD in the west, 2020 for Seed and 2021 for Destiny. Although according to some comments I've read online, those dubs were recorded 7-ish years ago it just took some time for the BDs to to get released. Cant confirm or deny this however.

Yes the new VA for Lacus is the casting director! If they kept the same staff as the TV remasters then the new VA for Murrue Ramius is the voice acting director.

I saw it again dubbed last night and found it much more enjoyable. I feel like they'll definitely be doing some kind of prequel OVA in the future to fill in some of the gaps.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

Spoiler:

There is no evidence that the Accords' abilities were ever leaked to the public, but, at the end of the novel, the world is actually rather divided on the subject of their former, wannabe overlords.

Some reject the genocidal and ruthless Foundation regime, while others are actually supportive of it. It's nothing really surprising - there are whole demographic swathes that are sensitive to the appeal of autocratic regimes and the promise of a peaceful society, even if that imperial peace is fundamentally steeped in blood and oppression. And with the EA's past record, it's no surprise some countries or regions still want to jump ship.

The more worrisome problem, however, is PLANT. Chairman Lament's severe punishment of the failed coup's participants and sympathizers ended up deeply dividing the population and the numbers of those seeing Jagganath's actions in a positive light are growing. Groundwork for a sequel OVA/series/movie?

Even Blue Cosmos is aware that there is an opportunity to be seized there. Despite its losses, it is becoming more active.

The world emerging at the end of the movie/novel is quite a polarized one, less stable than before the conflict started.

Hence why many are anxious for the return of Kira and Lacus, the personal toll on their minds and souls be damned.

Spoiler:

It’s only takes 1 person who knows to leak it to throw everything to hell. Even just an involved scientist who survived. Better to cut losses, get away and be happy together. He was burnt out as well, and knew she was as well and just wanted to take bike rides and picnics with Lacus. Kira probably discussed this with Athrun and Cagalli when making the choice even if not shown. They knew what he planned to do but probably didn’t probe the specifics. That they’d return only if they wanted to

[Mad Pierrot]

So

Spoiler for novel ending:

the novel ending is a cliffhanger? No definitive ending? The characters have been changing sides from Orb to Zaft and then Compass so I'm curious where Kira and Lacus would end. Not even in the afteword a mention about why they decided that?

[Renegade334]

Not a cliffhanger - there was no real sense of urgency in the epilogue. It was penned more like a bittersweet ending.

Spoiler:

- The world is at peace, but the next crisis could be brewing up behind the curtains.
- Power blocs (EA and PLANT) could be fragmenting due to intestine issues.
- Racial tensions are increasing with the Destiny Plan getting a new (albeit short-lived) lease on life, followed by an uptick in Blue Cosmos attacks.
- Kira and Lacus are together and could be closer than ever, but they are now emotionally wrung out - enough so that they need to bow out.
- Athrun and Cagalli vow to continue the fight even though it'll be a hard one and they're slightly at a loss as to how they'll do that without Kira and Lacus.
- Bottom line: peace has a cost, in the short and the long terms.

There are technically no loose ends after the movie, so, yes, if Bandai/Sunrise decide to rest on their laurels and let things stand as such, SEED Freedom could constitute the definitive end to the SEED saga. It does wrap up a few things, especially on the character relations side.

As for the afterword, no; Liu Goto mainly talks about the imagery driving some of his writing or being the backbone for certain scenes.
The only clue is that Fukuda (on his Twitter account? or it might have been in one of the post-movie interviews) said that he doesn't believe Kira and Lacus will ever "retire". That said, this reads as personal opinion, not an official response.

Spoiler:

For all we know, they could be living a quiet life in one of Rev. Malchio's properties (at least the ones that didn't get destroyed during the conflicts). It was mentioned that some of the orphans have grown up and might've moved elsewhere.

But that's all we're told. Officially, the two have been MIA since the battle on the Moon and the less the author says about them, the more poetic the ending feels...I believe. Less is more, so to speak.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

Not a cliffhanger - there was no real sense of urgency in the epilogue. It was penned more like a bittersweet ending.

Spoiler:

- The world is at peace, but the next crisis could be brewing up behind the curtains.
- Power blocs (EA and PLANT) could be fragmenting due to intestine issues.
- Racial tensions are increasing with the Destiny Plan getting a new (albeit short-lived) lease on life, followed by an uptick in Blue Cosmos attacks.
- Kira and Lacus are together and could be closer than ever, but they are now emotionally wrung out - enough so that they need to bow out.
- Athrun and Cagalli vow to continue the fight even though it'll be a hard one and they're slightly at a loss as to how they'll do that without Kira and Lacus.
- Bottom line: peace has a cost, in the short and the long terms.

There are technically no loose ends after the movie, so, yes, if Bandai/Sunrise decide to rest on their laurels and let things stand as such, SEED Freedom could constitute the definitive end to the SEED saga. It does wrap up a few things, especially on the character relations side.

As for the afterword, no; Liu Goto mainly talks about the imagery driving some of his writing or being the backbone for certain scenes.
The only clue is that Fukuda (on his Twitter account? or it might have been in one of the post-movie interviews) said that he doesn't believe Kira and Lacus will ever "retire". That said, this reads as personal opinion, not an official response.

Spoiler:

For all we know, they could be living a quiet life in one of Rev. Malchio's properties (at least the ones that didn't get destroyed during the conflicts). It was mentioned that some of the orphans have grown up and might've moved elsewhere.

But that's all we're told. Officially, the two have been MIA since the battle on the Moon and the less the author says about them, the more poetic the ending feels...I believe. Less is more, so to speak.

I feel it’s more an end to their saga than the series. Future series could focus on Athrun or Shinn. Maybe even their own children. The conflicts aren’t over. The Destiny plan is tempting but there will always be those dissatisfied with their lot even if it succeeded. Some will continue to seek it hoping for a better standing. The factions are somewhat willing to work together but only takes certain actions to set them off. Kira and Lacus will likely be more mentor figures that future protags happen to come across