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Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2016-07-12, 06:33

Unless some cyclone sink that artificial island, China is keeping that patch of sea. Frankly the rules had always been that if you can put your troops somewhere, then you own that place until someone kick you out, legal or not. Been that way for as long as troops existed.

Brother Coa · 2016-07-12, 06:36

Pretty much.

The main question is - will west sanction China like they did Russia if they refuse to step down?

Kakurin · 2016-07-12, 07:39

China would not be the first case of a country ignoring the verdict of an international court. The International Court of Justice for example once ruled the case Nicaragua v. United States of America. Nicaragua in the 1980s sued the United States for damages for their support for the Nicaraguan anti-communist guerillas. The court ruled in favour of Nicaragua and awarded compensations. The US did not participate in the proceedings after their argument that the court did not possess jurisdiction was rejected, never accepted the verdict and never paid the compensations, calling the court "a semi-legal, semi-juridicial, semi-political body, which nations sometimes accept and sometimes don't".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

It will be interesting to see will USA sanction China

Amusingly the US never signed the UNCLOS which forms the basis for the rule of the Court of Arbitration today.

Marcus H. · 2016-07-12, 09:32

It will be easier for the PH to gain sympathy at least. The Senkaku island dispute means that Japan would know that feel, and a handful of ASEAN nations have their problems with China taking their territorial waters.

Kakurin · 2016-07-12, 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

and a handful of ASEAN nations have their problems with China taking their territorial waters.

You have to separate between territorial waters and EEZs. Nearly all of the disputes and violations are about the EEZs. There's too much throwing together of territorial waters and EEZ. For example, the Philippines do not possess any recognised territorial waters in the area of the Spratly Islands. Their EEZ generated by Palawan though (under the assumption that none of the Spratly Islands generate a recognised EEZ) encompass some of the area of the the Spratly group.

KiraYamatoFan · 2016-07-12, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

Pretty much.

The main question is - will west sanction China like they did Russia if they refuse to step down?

It would be a good thing that happens. The only problem is that China doesn't have a polarizing Putin-like figure that people worldwide can easily recognize and hate. It's only my opinion, but I think the sanctions would be passed more easily if people saw the Chinese president/premier as some sort of Asian Putin.

Kakurin · 2016-07-12, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

It would be a good thing that happens.

It would be a disaster. The last thing the world needs right now is an economic war with the second biggest economy of the world. And the equation of the severity between the sea disputes and the issue of the Crimea and Donbass is questionable.

Brother Coa · 2016-07-13, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

It would be a good thing that happens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

It would be a disaster. The last thing the world needs right now is an economic war with the second biggest economy of the world.

Good thing?

China is not Russia, China is worlds second economy that produces some 80% of all world goods and holds the majority of USA debt.

To sanction China is to shoot world economy in foot. Nobody wants to see entire world burn in civil unrest because of shortages everywhere.

Ithekro · 2016-07-13, 02:17

I am pretty sure several isolationist and nationalist in the United States would love to shoot the world economy in the foot in the hopes of bringing businesses by to US soil from China.

Grifis · 2016-07-13, 09:21

To the US, Russia is a threat and China is not. So besides pretending to do something about China, the US isn't and won't actually do anything about China until China proves to be a threat to the US' interests.

Xellos-_^ · 2016-07-13, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I am pretty sure several isolationist and nationalist in the United States would love to shoot the world economy in the foot in the hopes of bringing businesses by to US soil from China.

they are going to be disappointed since most of those business isn't even in China anymore.

KiraYamatoFan · 2016-07-13, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

they are going to be disappointed since most of those business isn't even in China anymore.

Those are now in India, Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand, and other neighboring countries. In any case, production of goods has been moving out of China for a number of recent years now, and those other countries are gladly asking for more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grifis

To the US, Russia is a threat and China is not. So besides pretending to do something about China, the US isn't and won't actually do anything about China until China proves to be a threat to the US' interests.

Tell me how people have reached this conclusion. Unless some people are still stuck in the Cold War, that claim makes little to no sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Unless some cyclone sink that artificial island

That would be a very welcome intervention of Mother Nature.

Brother Coa · 2016-07-13, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

Those are now in India, Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand, and other neighboring countries. In any case, production of goods has been moving out of China for a number of recent years now, and those other countries are gladly asking for more.

In recent years, you said that very well.

To remove entire foreign industrial production from China will take years if not decades. And China has already begun investing a LOT in Europe,Africa and USA, buying industries there and producing or selling their good for incredibly low prices.

Plus, countries like Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand and Philippines where most of industry is relocating are not developed enough to meet the standards of the goods produced in China. So the investors first must build and then invest in that country setting their standards higher to get same quality they are getting from China. A very expensive and a very time consuming thing. Even India is held back a a little because of that.

So I am not afraid at all as far as China goes, they are secured their current position for at least next 30 or 40 years. If something major does not happen that is.

And time is on their side seeing how UN, USA and Europe global powers are getting weaker and weaker each year while states like Brasil and South Africa grow in power each year.

Yu Ominae · 2016-07-13, 21:41

Confirming that Public Security Police is tightening security at the outskirts of the Philippine Embassy, a possible precaution to what happened in the protests against Japan in 2012.

kyp275 · 2016-07-17, 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

China is not Russia, China is worlds second economy that produces some 80% of all world goods and holds the majority of USA debt.

China does not in fact owns the majority of USA debt, that would be the US itself:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/10/news...ebt-ownership/

US owns 67.5% of its own debt @ $12.9 trillion, while China owns 7% of the debt @ $1.3 trillion.

7% is very far away from being a majority of anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

And time is on their side seeing how UN, USA and Europe global powers are getting weaker and weaker each year while states like Brasil and South Africa grow in power each year.

Brazil? really? Brazil?

Brother Coa · 2016-07-17, 12:10

How can country own it's own foreign debt? It's article from CNN so I am not supprosed.

And why are you so suprised aboit Brazil? Their economy is one that has fastest grow.

Anh_Minh · 2016-07-17, 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

How can country own it's own foreign debt?

You didn't say "foreign" at first. And a country holds its own debt when its citizens and companies (banks, investment funds...) buy its treasury bonds.

Brother Coa · 2016-07-17, 14:53

Sorry, when I say debt in USA case I usually mean foreign.

kyp275 · 2016-07-17, 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

And why are you so suprised aboit Brazil? Their economy is one that has fastest grow.

I doubt Brazil's economy is anything remotely close to being the fastest in growth - for starters, they're in their third consecutive year of recession.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0YH08D

Brother Coa · 2016-07-18, 01:55

"From 2000 to 2012, Brazil was one of the fastest-growing major economies in the world, with an average annual GDP growth rate of over 5%, with its economy in 2012 surpassing that of the United Kingdom, temporarily making Brazil the world's sixth largest economy. However, Brazil's economy growth decelerated in 2013 and the country entered an ongoing recession in 2014"

All of this in just 3 years? 0_0

I won;t even imagine what will happen if USA ever enter recession...

2016-07-12, 06:33	Link #41
Vallen Chaos Valiant Logician and Romantic Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Within my mind Age: 43	Unless some cyclone sink that artificial island, China is keeping that patch of sea. Frankly the rules had always been that if you can put your troops somewhere, then you own that place until someone kick you out, legal or not. Been that way for as long as troops existed. __________________

2016-07-12, 09:32	Link #44
Marcus H. Princess or Plunderer? Join Date: May 2009 Location: the Philippines	It will be easier for the PH to gain sympathy at least. The Senkaku island dispute means that Japan would know that feel, and a handful of ASEAN nations have their problems with China taking their territorial waters. __________________ Continuing: White Sand Aquatope (6/24) and Vanitas S2 (0/12), The Vampire Dies in No Time S2 and Bofuri S2 (3/12). 2021: Restaurant to Another World S2 (3/12), takt Op. Destiny (1/12) and Taisho Maiden Fairy Tale (1/12). 2022: Yuusha Yamemasu (1/12), Kaguya-sama S3, Mob Psycho 100 III (Oct06), Bleach: 1000 Year Blood War (2/13) and Chainsaw Man (6/12). Spring 2023: Yamada-kun to Lv999 no Koi wo Suru, Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear Punch! (4/12), Skip to Loafer, Tonikaku Kawaii S2 (1/12), Otonari ni Ginga (5/12) and Kimi wa Houkago Insomnia (3/13). Contact me on Wikia and MyAnimeList. Anime List Status ~ Watching: 33. Completed: 468. Plan to watch: 39.

2016-07-13, 02:17	Link #49
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	I am pretty sure several isolationist and nationalist in the United States would love to shoot the world economy in the foot in the hopes of bringing businesses by to US soil from China. __________________

2016-07-13, 21:41	Link #54
Yu Ominae ARCAM Spriggan agent Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Coquitlam, BC, Canada/Quezon City, Philippines	Confirming that Public Security Police is tightening security at the outskirts of the Philippine Embassy, a possible precaution to what happened in the protests against Japan in 2012. __________________ Even if we were at odds with each other, I still thank you for training me, Instructor Bowman - Yu Ominae, reflecting on Bowman's death after killing him in Phantom Island

2016-07-12, 06:36	Link #42
Brother Coa Banned Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Holy Terra	Pretty much. The main question is - will west sanction China like they did Russia if they refuse to step down?

2016-07-13, 09:21	Link #50
Grifis Eternal Dreamer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Caladan	To the US, Russia is a threat and China is not. So besides pretending to do something about China, the US isn't and won't actually do anything about China until China proves to be a threat to the US' interests.

2016-07-17, 12:10	Link #56
Brother Coa Banned Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Holy Terra	How can country own it's own foreign debt? It's article from CNN so I am not supprosed. And why are you so suprised aboit Brazil? Their economy is one that has fastest grow.

2016-07-17, 14:53	Link #58
Brother Coa Banned Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Holy Terra	Sorry, when I say debt in USA case I usually mean foreign.

2016-07-18, 01:55	Link #60
Brother Coa Banned Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Holy Terra	"From 2000 to 2012, Brazil was one of the fastest-growing major economies in the world, with an average annual GDP growth rate of over 5%, with its economy in 2012 surpassing that of the United Kingdom, temporarily making Brazil the world's sixth largest economy. However, Brazil's economy growth decelerated in 2013 and the country entered an ongoing recession in 2014" All of this in just 3 years? 0_0 I won;t even imagine what will happen if USA ever enter recession...