War Between China and US

[Marcus H.]

News here says that Japan "showed interest" in a Visiting Forces Agreement-like thing with the PH.

(Oh boy, what's next, Spain?)

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

News here says that Japan "showed interest" in a Visiting Forces Agreement-like thing with the PH.

(Oh boy, what's next, Spain?)

I was discussing the Sabah earthquake this morning with a colleague. We were saying that, Mother Nature might take care of that island on our behalf.

Nobody builds an island in the South China Sea where the fishes swim free. No one.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Maybe, they might think than they are already too big and powerful for their close ''trading partners'' to fight back much.

All I will say about this is that someone in Beijing who is really acting like Wilhelm II with the aggressive territorial and military expansion. That article about the construction of new warships highlights shades of the Tirpitz Plan.

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

I was discussing the Sabah earthquake this morning with a colleague. We were saying that, Mother Nature might take care of that island on our behalf.

Hopefully, that would take shape through a Category 5 typhoon. It would solve a lot of things.

[Tornado The Dragon]

America should really learn to stay out of other nations' business. It has enough of its military in foreign territories. Plenty of them in the middle east & Africa. I have a strong feeling this won't end well. Not trying to imply China isn't at blame either. But let the Asian-Pacific nations deal with their own problems.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Tornado The Dragon

America should really learn to stay out of other nations' business. It has enough of its military in foreign territories. Plenty of them in the middle east & Africa. I have a strong feeling this won't end well. Not trying to imply China isn't at blame either. But let the Asian-Pacific nations deal with their own problems.

That is a myopic view of world affairs. The only reason why US has it hands full "dealing with other people's business" is because they were drawn into the void left by the Europeans warring with each other since WWII. It is a opportunity in world domination taken and the price to pay is the sacrifice of American lives rather than any of other nationality.

China wants to dominate the AsiaPac, but only economically. They have no interest in paying the human price. The problem is that one can't reap monetary benefits without sacrifices made in blood.

US did learn about that. And so did the Russians. And they have plans to draw more benefits than consequences out of it, that is why they don't stop.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by hawkeyesvn

I don't know about Philippines but there's no way a skirmish between Vietnam and China can happen in at least another few decades. VN's economy is heavily depended on China. Not to mention some of VN's high officers is pro-China, the most serious thing VN will do against China's aggressive behavior is more "verbal fighting".

And when it come to military power, I don't think ASEAN stand a chance against China even if all ASEAN countries combine their forces. We're talking about a war against a country with more than 1.3 billion people ( They can literally zerg rush you ) and nuclear weapon. Dealing with China through diplomatic measure is ASEAN's best choice.

I will beg to be different here. Not sure if you know, as most didn't. But Vietnam had a very long lasting skirmish against China from 1979 up to 1990 over the border issues, including those islands. Yes, it was after Vietnam War and maybe that's why not much US media attention looked at the region then

I agree that they likely will stick to a more diplomatic solution through. But actually because both wary at the cost each side will take once a fight break out. Yeah the skirmish that i mentioned earlier actually had 50k-60k casualties for each side not counting civilians. China was literally bringing in 1 millions men into that fight and move the border by couple of km. And yes, they literally used the zerg run tactic that they did during Korean war, and it was nullified, and the reason why they has been modernizing their army since. And it will only get worse if another break out now, because China have been heavily invested in military, and Vietnam now won't have to fight off two fronts against Khmer Rogue (and Thailand also actually).


Saying that through. I believe these whole noises over the South China Sea were sparked up by the US. China probably want to do the opposite, keep it quiet, isolate and deal with each independent nation separately as they had their leverage against each of them. The US in this case however actually was trying to keep everything on the surface so each SEA nations can't really backstab each other.

[IceHism]

huh, i'm consistently surprised that the US gets mad when people look at their business when they are looking at everyone else's business. look pal, everyone is spying on each other and its always been like that.

though declaring any war on china isn't very smart right now

[hawkeyesvn]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

1_I will beg to be different here. Not sure if you know, as most didn't. But Vietnam had a very long lasting skirmish against China from 1979 up to 1990 over the border issues, including those islands. Yes, it was after Vietnam War and maybe that's why not much US media attention looked at the region then

2_I agree that they likely will stick to a more diplomatic solution through. But actually because both wary at the cost each side will take once a fight break out. Yeah the skirmish that i mentioned earlier actually had 50k-60k casualties for each side not counting civilians. China was literally bringing in 1 millions men into that fight and move the border by couple of km. And yes, they literally used the zerg run tactic that they did during Korean war, and it was nullified, and the reason why they has been modernizing their army since. And it will only get worse if another break out now, because China have been heavily invested in military, and Vietnam now won't have to fight off two fronts against Khmer Rogue (and Thailand also actually).


Saying that through. I believe these whole noises over the South China Sea were sparked up by the US. China probably want to do the opposite, keep it quiet, isolate and deal with each independent nation separately as they had their leverage against each of them. The US in this case however actually was trying to keep everything on the surface so each SEA nations can't really backstab each other.

1_Yeah, I'm sure I know about those battle since my dad fought in the 1979 Border war ( Or the Sino - Vietnamese war as you know it ). It cost him a leg and from what he said, I know it's horribly brutal when he told that his comrades kept overheating their machine guns by shooting at endless Chinese infantry waves. But that the past, 1979 is just 4 years after Vietnam War, our army had high morale back then and our equipment is the best of SEA ( US left behind quite a lot ). Now is a totally different matter, people has been living in peace for more than 20 years ( 40 for Southern people ), the economy is getting stable, our military tech is lagging behind and 2/3 of our top political leaders want nothing but maintaining a strong connection with China. ATM, our country just don't have what it take to participate in a war ( small or large scale doesn't matter ). The strongest response from us would just be "ramming/interfering with China armed ship" like what you have seen in the "Hanyan mobile oil platform incident" last year.

2_As long as most of SEA nations understand that China will not stop at eating the whole South China Sea ( SCS ) then there's still hope for diplomatic measurements. Despite how much of a "bullies" China is, It's still a single country and need to maintain its image of "rising in peace". About US, to be honest,IMO their meddling in SCS has been nothing but making the whole thing more complicated. And I think they actually prefer the dispute to remain like this ( At least until they completely get out of the economy crisis and Afghanistan ).

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by hawkeyesvn

1_Yeah, I'm sure I know about those battle since my dad fought in the 1979 Border war ( Or the Sino - Vietnamese war as you know it ). It cost him a leg and from what he said, I know it's horribly brutal when he told that his comrades kept overheating their machine guns by shooting at endless Chinese infantry waves. But that the past, 1979 is just 4 years after Vietnam War, our army had high morale back then and our equipment is the best of SEA ( US left behind quite a lot ). Now is a totally different matter, people has been living in peace for more than 20 years ( 40 for Southern people ), the economy is getting stable, our military tech is lagging behind and 2/3 of our top political leaders want nothing but maintaining a strong connection with China. ATM, our country just don't have what it take to participate in a war ( small or large scale doesn't matter ). The strongest response from us would just be "ramming/interfering with China armed ship" like what you have seen in the "Hanyan mobile oil platform incident" last year.

Abit a brutal honesty here, so bear with me.

The Vietnamese army had always been bankrolled by the Russians, and since the collapse of the Soviet Union, they are unable to do anything on their own. No indigenious tech development, no espionage - they are too reliant on "bigger states" to help them. China is seeing this as an opportunity to usurp and make Vietnam their puppet state.

The Vietnamese army may not be able to fight a war and win, but it still can make life living hell for any occupier.

2_As long as most of SEA nations understand that China will not stop at eating the whole South China Sea ( SCS ) then there's still hope for diplomatic measurements. Despite how much of a "bullies" China is, It's still a single country and need to maintain its image of "rising in peace". About US, to be honest,IMO their meddling in SCS has been nothing but making the whole thing more complicated. And I think they actually prefer the dispute to remain like this ( At least until they completely get out of the economy crisis and Afghanistan ).

The US had their presence here going as far back as World War 2 (and if official business suffices, it is the Taiwan crisis). It isn't meddling - it is maintaining their presence.

Going further back in history, they would be filling the void the British left behind, who took it over from the various sultanates and Chinese dynasties and pre-Meiji Japan who carved the biggest ocean in the world up in the 1700s and 1800s.

[risingstar3110]

I agree that US role there is more as maintaining their presence. In some way, you can say that they have been maintaining a buffer zone going from Japan, South Korea, Taiwan then the SEA. Even the ASEAN was firstly formed to combat Communism, with the belt of Thailand, Philipines, Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia, but later expanded and take in the rest of the country in the regions

It probably the best for the ASEAN to stick with each other through, due to their diversity and all can benefit from each other stability. But once each countries started to pick their side. They will just became pawn to do the US and China bidding

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

It probably the best for the ASEAN to stick with each other through, due to their diversity and all can benefit from each other stability. But once each countries started to pick their side. They will just became pawn to do the US and China bidding

the only true answer for ASEAN will be the formation of the OCU.

[Yu Ominae]

I'm posting this because it's partially related to the current crisis in the Spratlys.

http://www.philstar.com/sunday-life/...-and-china-now

[Marcus H.]

Nah. I read that and it's like the writer wants the Filipinos to question the stand of anyone with even a sliver of Chinese blood in the current issue against China.

Remember "Around Blacks, Never Relax"? That's what the article sounded like, probably even worse.

[DragoonKain3]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

the only true answer for ASEAN will be the formation of the OCU.

Wait? Wanzers are actually a thing now? HEAVEN HELP US ALL!

[Yu Ominae]

Marcus

- That was also another way of how I read it.

Dragoon

- Square needs their royalty fees now?

----

Got a response to the earlier link I posted:

http://opinion.inquirer.net/85851/an...-are-invisible

[AnimeFan188]

China-linked hackers get sensitive U.S. defence and intelligence data -
report:

"China-linked hackers appear to have gained access to sensitive background
information submitted by U.S. intelligence and military personnel for security
clearances that could potentially expose them to blackmail, the Associated Press
reported on Friday.

In a report citing several U.S. officials, the news agency said data on nearly all of
the millions of U.S. security-clearance holders, including the Central Intelligence
Agency, National Security Agency and military special operations
personnel, were potentially exposed in the attack on the Office of Personnel
Management."

See:

http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/0...0OS2F420150613


======================================


Ex-NSA official: Cybersecurity breach gave China intelligence ‘crown
jewels’:

"A former NSA official said that the latest data breaches on the Office of Personnel
Management gave Chinese hackers the “crown jewels” of American intelligence.

Last week federal officials announced that Chinese hackers had gained access to
over 4 million personal records for federal employees in December. A similar hack,
exposing federal employees’ security background checks, was disclosed by the
Obama administration on Friday. "

See:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...gave-china-in/


======================================


Why The OPM Breach Is Such a Security and Privacy Debacle:

"If it’s not already a maxim, it should be: Every big hack discovered will eventually
prove to be more serious than first believed. That’s holding to be especially true
with the recently disclosed hack of the federal Office of Personnel Management,
the government’s human resources division.

At first, the government said the breach exposed the personal information of
approximately four million people—information such as Social Security numbers,
birthdates and addresses of current and former federal workers. Wrong.

It turns out the hackers, who are believed to be from China, also accessed
so-called SF-86 forms, documents used for conducting background checks for
worker security clearances. The forms can contain a wealth of sensitive data not
only about workers seeking security clearance, but also about their friends,
spouses and other family members. They can also include potentially sensitive
information about the applicant’s interactions with foreign nationals—information
that could be used against those nationals in their own country."

See:

http://www.wired.com/2015/06/opm-bre...ivacy-debacle/


======================================


China’s Hack Just Wrecked American Espionage:

"It's tough enough to be an undercover spy in the age of the Internet. China's
hack of American personnel files just made it much, much harder."

See:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...espionage.html


======================================


What the OPM Hack Means for the Future of Warfare:

"It's not the first time the U.S. government's systems have been breached, and it
won't be the last time either."

See:

http://www.defenseone.com/technology.../?oref=d-river

[SaintessHeart]

Japan becomes SEA's Naval Power

Well are we all waiting for this? Is that why they released Kantai Collection?

[KiraYamatoFan]

You know, I sometimes wonder what's the point of yelling on all roofs that China has hacked into the US government. Seems to me that the answer would be quite simple for this case and very reminiscent of that scene in Black Hawk Down.

Sergeant Pilla: Colonel, they're shooting at us! Colonel, they're shooting at us!
Colonel McKnight: Well, shoot back!

Hey! If someone attacks you, you fight back with the same weapons. If China steals vital information from the US, then the US are fully entitled to retaliate by stealing vital information from China, and vice-versa. Is there anything else any simpler to do than that?

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

You know, I sometimes wonder what's the point of yelling on all roofs that China has hacked into the US government. Seems to me that the answer would be quite simple for this case and very reminiscent of that scene in Black Hawk Down.

Sergeant Pilla: Colonel, they're shooting at us! Colonel, they're shooting at us!
Colonel McKnight: Well, shoot back!

Hey! If someone attacks you, you fight back with the same weapons. If China steals vital information from the US, then the US are fully entitled to retaliate by stealing vital information from China, and vice-versa. Is there anything else any simpler to do than that?

They already did.

The US OGAs has a habit of celebrating failures first and successes later.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

They already did.

The US OGAs has a habit of celebrating failures first and successes later.

That's a stupid mindset if you ask me. Meanwhile, the British and the Israelis are usually good at both celebrating successes and burying most failures. Perhaps, the CIA should have watched and learned how to do it long ago.

Still, I wonder what those successes can be, especially what kind of sensitive information/secret can be extremely embarrassing for Beijing if that came into the spotlight. I would like to see those in the news from time to time rather than focusing on whatever has gone wrong.