Tate no Yuusha/Shield Hero - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[Kairin]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Tate no Yuusha/Shield Hero, Episode 22.

Thread Guidelines

• Raw requests and offers are not permitted anywhere on this forum.
• Spoilers or hints about future events must not be posted in this thread.
  If you need to reference something that would spoil a future event, reply directly with a private message, or seek out a more appropriate thread.
• Discuss your expectations of the episode if it has not aired yet.
• Be polite to your fellow forum members.
• Please try to keep the discussion on-topic.
• Character bashing is not on-topic and will not be tolerated.
• Do not post multiple times in a row. Please edit your existing post if you wish to add additional thoughts.

Episode Thread Spoiler Policy

• Any comment that discloses events, characters, plot or other information before it is revealed in the anime is expressly forbidden whether or not it is behind spoiler tags.
  Spoiler tags should still be used where appropriate.
  Please consult the AnimeSuki Spoiler Policy for more information.
• Adding a Spoiler tag:
  

  Just highlight your spoiler and click the button found on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms. Make sure that you include a useful title!

• Please use the Report button if you see any inappropriate spoilers:
  

  Click the button found to the left of the post, just under the poster's avatar. Using the Report button is anonymous and helps the Moderators locate and deal with problems quickly.

• Posting inappropriate spoilers may result in a ban.
  Note: Reporting a post does not mean the poster will be banned instantly.
  The Moderators will use bans if warnings are repeatedly ignored.

[Ichinotachi]

This was a very relaxed episode but at the same time there are some things that were changed here and there, those parts felt out of place if I'm being honest.

L'arc and therese are finally here and the final part of the adaptation is about to begin. The relevant part of the episode, the queen's face.

Spoiler for queen:

[BWTraveller]

Well, some things don't change so easily. Kind of makes sense, even if people find it annoying that they're "still" like this. People don't just change because they hear they should. And anyway, from the way it's presented it's clear that none of the three were really lying. Most likely each of the games in their respective worlds were built differently, resulting in various subtle differences in mechanics. For instance, rather than try to include three or more different systems for measuring and increasing weapon power, each game probably just chose one path and ran with it. As demonstrated with Naofumi "unlocking" the copy system when he took a shot and believed it must exist, each of them neither knew nor believed any system could exist besides their own since this was "their" world, and so the other systems remained locked. In short, the big problem is that all three are still clinging to the idea that they're inside their games, or a world based on it, and the idea that anything could be different from the game they know is ludicrous.

[The Green One]

So.... they're just going to ignore the huge fight that started at the party and move on?

Looks like all four of them are just being unruly children still. Even Nafoumi was pretty bad too. Not at the level of spoiled brats the other three were but cmon already. I guess his opinion of the others is already pretty bad so his tolerance level for their bullshit was pretty low.

There was a lot of rushing in this episode and unless you know what's going on some of the subtext is going to be lost here.

[BWTraveller]

Yeah, at the least he could have explained the shield to them. Though it might have been hard for them to swallow that their stupidity and arrogance played a big role in his gaining this "cheat" power. But then they didn't really welcome camaraderie when they insisted over and over on referring to it as a "cheat". At the very least it must hurt to be accused of "cheating" when he has to hit himself with extremely powerful curses and suffer severe personal damage in order to make it work. The term makes it sound like he found a cheap way to gain great power with no work.

[Kanon]

We were told why Filo couldn't get the class upgrade she wanted, but what about Raphtalia? What prevented it?
We weren't shown him doing it but I guess Naofumi got a class upgrade too (he was finally at level 40 this ep), otherwise his trip to that bonus island would be wasted.

The Queen being super fond of Filolials just like her daughter was pretty amusing.

Did Bitch sneak in or is she actually still allowed in the castle? Either way, the fact she managed to poison Naofumi's food this easily, and would have succeeded if Melty hadn't caught a glimpse of her is facepalm worthy. As were the heroes and the Queen's reactions, they were just blasé instead of angry. Throw her in prison already, geez! It's obvious she'll continue to be a problem.

Not fond of the three idiots still acting like dicks. At least now we know why cooperation is necessary, they can each unlock one another unique's skills simply by sharing information and believing it, which obviously helps them progress faster.

Scythe guy finally made his appearance. I'm guessing just from the way he addresses Naofumi that he's actually far older than he looks. He's already more friendly than the other three ever were.

[The Green One]

Heroes don't have a level restriction so he didn't need one. Just his previous difficulties with the kingdom prevented him from leveling efficiently.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Kanon

We were told why Filo couldn't get the class upgrade she wanted, but what about Raphtalia? What prevented it?
We weren't shown him doing it but I guess Naofumi got a class upgrade too (he was finally at level 40 this ep), otherwise his trip to that bonus island would be wasted.

The Queen being super fond of Filolials just like her daughter was pretty amusing.

Did Bitch sneak in or is she actually still allowed in the castle? Either way, the fact she managed to poison Naofumi's food this easily, and would have succeeded if Melty hadn't caught a glimpse of her is facepalm worthy. As were the heroes and the Queen's reactions, they were just blasé instead of angry. Throw her in prison already, geez! It's obvious she'll continue to be a problem.

Not fond of the three idiots still acting like dicks. At least now we know why cooperation is necessary, they can each unlock one another unique's skills simply by sharing information and believing it, which obviously helps them progress faster.

Scythe guy finally made his appearance. I'm guessing just from the way he addresses Naofumi that he's actually far older than he looks. He's already more friendly than the other three ever were.

As I understood it, Filo's ahoge interfered with BOTH their upgrades. I also think the Heroes don't have "class-ups", they just keep growing unabated. And L'Arc I'm pretty sure is 20 just like Naofumi, judging by his apologizing that he thought Naofumi was younger than him. If he "thought" he was younger than him, that must mean he isn't, which would at least mean he can't be older.

[Schpittfeuer]

Is there anyone who actually likes spearhead pedo?


Come the f@ on, even after the bitch was publicly admitted to have committed an attempted murder and high treason he's still the first to accuse queen and Melty of lying. Come on, die already

But I don't get something, last episode they said their goodbyes and today Melty is with them... Idk I'm probably missing something here

[Twi]

Don't double post. You have an edit button. And the reason for that is probably due to the adaptation changes. It seems like that would have been the end of one volume and this the start of another.

And them letting Myne run free is just stupid considering she legit tried to poison his party. She didn't learn a thing, and the fact that Naofumi brushed it under the rug along with everyone else just tells you they've stopped taking the whole matter serious.

The Queen also gives Naofumi too much credit. All four of the heroes lost at the last Wave to Glass, Naofumi simply didn't die because he ran until the timer ran down.

[frodonk]

Ahh questions.. I watched the last 2 episodes on the same day so I'll probably repeat some of the discussion from last episode:

1. We never got to know why the king hated the shield, looks like the source material didn't address this as well. This is very important as everything started from this one fact based on that trial. If the king didn't hate the shield so much the pope would've had a harder time trying to demonize the shield, even with myne's help.

2. We never got to know how myne became so evil, or what she did to lose the position of heir to her younger sister. Again, your garden variety court/royal intrigue about political power or throne inheritance cannot explain all the hate myne had for the shield. She went above and beyond in her quest to demonize the shield, and this cannot be explained merely by saying that she was working with the church.

If we're to follow the flow of events, malty hated the shield, framed him and then when melty joined the shield malty claimed melty was brainwashed and tried to kill her as well. Killing the crown princess was NOT her main goal, killing melty was for the purpose of framing the shield hero.

Again, why is this the case? was it because malty knows why her father hated the shield so much? If so even then it still doesn't answer why she was that evil, right until now when she tried poisoning their food, even after being left off from the guillotine and letting her stay inside the castle!

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I assume she thought that if she got in her father's and the church's favor (and got her sister out of the way), it might support her assent to power. Basically, as someone who had already lost the rightful position as heir, she was willing to use whatever twisted means were at her disposal to gain an advantage.

(Of course, she was a bit too wrapped up her delusions of power to realize the church would betray her. Why share power with a royal family so unstable and dysfunctional when you can just get rid of them and keep all the power to yourself? As someone who tried to kill her own sister, the thought really should have occurred to her, but I guess she was a bit too caught up in her own lying ways to consider the lies others would tell her.)

This explanation makes a lot of sense, but all these is based on the premise that myne's goal was the throne, and she was using everyone to get it. Melty joining the shield's party was just a happy coincidence that made it easy for her to get rid of her sister and the shield at the same time, and naofumi was just an innocent young boy from another world who happened to become the shield hero and victimized by a princess trying to take the throne.

But i don't think she could've foreseen how the queen and melty would take the shield's side. If melty did go against the shield the church would've been satisfied and their father, which we already know adored melty, would've sided with melty too, so what would've happened to myne's schemes then?

And again, as we saw, she already lost all her reputation and status but she's still trying to poison their food. It might just be that this is revenge against the shield for the humiliation she endured because of the name change, but he saved her life! Why is she like this??

3. I accept that the queen was away in another country and couldn't have come sooner (thanks to everyone who kept telling me this week after week, you were correct ) BUT if she was aware of the situation before then why not send the secret service to the king and tell him to cut it out or face the consequences when she comes back? If she can send somebody to send messages to all the heroes and have somebody follow melty around as security, why wasn't she able to tell her own husband to stop being a dick to the shield hero?

It's possible she sent a message off-screen telling the king to be kind to the shield hero, it's possible she knows it won't happen because the king for some reason hates the shield so much, but based on the trial the king was surprised with all these allegations so I doubt that the queen warned the king beforehand.

she already conveniently appeared when the plot required her to, but that was explained somewhat by that international forum she talked about, and yet..

4. The queen mentioned that in the international forum she went to, it was agreed that each country would get 1 heroes each, but the pope and the king went ahead and summoned all 4 so she had to placate everyone. How hard was it for her to ask the king to send her the shield in the first place? Everyone hated the shield, she knew the truth as to what happened with myne, so why didn't she have the shield sent to her and give him to another country as a token of goodwill?

It's possible that by giving away the shield to another country, others would demand to get one as well, which will make the kingdom suffer more from the waves by having 3 less heroes, but the queen can just decide this on her own since that's what was agreed to anyway, and all in the name of placating the other countries from the blunder of the king.

This all boils down to the queen not doing something sooner to resolve the situation even though everyone follows whatever comes out of her mouth. Sending melty might've been a right move in her mind, but she didn't instruct her properly and let her ride titan sized turkeys instead.

5. The queen's words might be the law, so she could just say that from now on it will be the church of the FOUR heroes, but you can't change the hearts of the people that easily. If you've spent your life knowing that the shield is the devil then that won't change overnight! Only that guy in armor that picked a fight with raph was brave enough to voice this opinion out I guess.



We did see the last 2 characters in the 2nd OP this time, so that's nice, and we might get to see some action next week too.

[Kinematics]

Stat time!

Raphtalia:
HP: 487 → 975
MP: 458 → 917
Attack: 225 → 450
Magic Attack: 218 → 436
Defense: 171 → 343
Magic Defense: 213 → 427
Speed: 241 → 482


Filo:
HP: 651 → 1202
MP: 303 → 507
Attack: 360 → 620
Magic Attack: 218 → 326
Defense: 276 → 452
Magic Defense: 196 → 292
Speed: 357 → 625


Raphtalia's stats all doubled, while Filo's went up by between 50% and 75%. Filo had started off much higher than Raphtalia in everything except MP. Raphtalia's starting to catch up, but still has a way to go.

Still, the difference in stats is stark enough that it shows why people would be surprised by their performance while they still hadn't performed the Class Up. Even I'm surprised, really. I guess if they'd managed their Class Up before the previous Wave (which happened at a point where the rest of the other heroes' team members had had their Class Up), they could have taken the Soul Eater down fairly easily without the Iron Maiden. Doubling their stats should have changed it from a struggle to a cake walk.


... Did Mirelia just have a Darkness moment?


Spear girl from Itsuki's team is talking to some cloaked figure (probably the mage on Itsuki's team), while Malty sneaks out the back.


Drunk axe guy spouting off. In the background, many of the other team members. Left to right:

Fencer and Dancer from Motoyasu's team. Thief and Bearded Axe from Ren's team. Witch from Motoyasu's team. Wizard and Monk from Ren's team.

Basically, all of Ren's and Motoyasu's team members, aside from (possibly) Bitch (if she's still allowed to be on Motoyasu's team). None of Itsuki's team members.

And fighting in the party room.

Motoyasu's Fencer vs Itsuki's Spear. (While Filo snacks in the background. Filo knows what's important!)

Both Raphtalia and Mustache Knight (Itsuki) are being held down. Rather appropriate. Poor girl that was trying to help Raphtalia. No stopping the chaos.

Green Braid being chased across screen — although her face model is really wonky. It's like 20% larger than it should be for her body size. Or maybe it's just her arms that are too small.

Spear (Itsuki) vs Thief (Ren), and Fencer (Motoyasu) vs Monk (Ren) in the background.

Who's throwing pies???!! Filo will kick them!

~~

Wish I could read what he was doing with the Soul Eater Shield. I assume it's him boosting all of his shields based on what he learned from the other three.

Keel is still wearing Raphtalia's bracelet. While it's certainly touching, part of me still wants the stat boost back for Raphtalia. >.>

The quick pan over the people waiting at the ship made it so that you'd have to go frame-by-frame to see who was waiting. Bitch wasn't part of the lineup. Green Braid was part of Itsuki's group, and was the only one sitting down, looking rather tired. I'd also say that Spear from Itsuki's team had a kind of amused smug look on her face, but since they're all low-res sketches, that might just be me projecting.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by frodonk

A2. We never got to know how myne became so evil, or what she did to lose the position of heir to her younger sister. Again, your garden variety court/royal intrigue about political power or throne inheritance cannot explain all the hate myne had for the shield. She went above and beyond in her quest to demonize the shield, and this cannot be explained merely by saying that she was working with the church.

If we're to follow the flow of events, malty hated the shield, framed him and then when melty joined the shield malty claimed melty was brainwashed and tried to kill her as well. Killing the crown princess was NOT her main goal, killing melty was for the purpose of framing the shield hero.

Again, why is this the case? was it because malty knows why her father hated the shield so much? If so even then it still doesn't answer why she was that evil, right until now when she tried poisoning their food, even after being left off from the guillotine and letting her stay inside the castle!



This explanation makes a lot of sense, but all these is based on the premise that myne's goal was the throne, and she was using everyone to get it. Melty joining the shield's party was just a happy coincidence that made it easy for her to get rid of her sister and the shield at the same time, and naofumi was just an innocent young boy from another world who happened to become the shield hero and victimized by a princess trying to take the throne.

But i don't think she could've foreseen how the queen and melty would take the shield's side. If melty did go against the shield the church would've been satisfied and their father, which we already know adored melty, would've sided with melty too, so what would've happened to myne's schemes then?

And again, as we saw, she already lost all her reputation and status but she's still trying to poison their food. It might just be that this is revenge against the shield for the humiliation she endured because of the name change, but he saved her life! Why is she like this??

I'd say flame's explanation is pretty spot on. Just because she didn't know Melty would join the Shield doesn't mean she couldn't still plan to use the Shield as scapegoats. My understanding is that she honestly didn't care one way or the other about the Shield, she just saw the hatred being expressed as a convenient tool. She used the Shield to get some extra cash and create a rescue plot that would give her greater influence over the popular Spear. She then made serious efforts to keep the Shield's already-damaged reputation from rising so that people would be willing to believe what she wants them to believe. While she may not have known or even suspected that the queen or Malty would side with the Shield, she probably could've predicted that some form of contact would occur just from the importance of the Heroes and the problems surrounding him. Even if Malty never encountered him on the road they could still meet in the castle. There'd be plenty of ways to frame the Shield with Melty's death really. And yeah, I'm pretty sure the attempt in this ep was just resentment. Naofumi may have saved her, but he also humiliated her and thwarted her plans over and over again. In her mind, he's probably become the one responsible for all the pain she's gone through, so him "saving" her may have come across more as a further demonstration of power to humiliate her even further.

4. The queen mentioned that in the international forum she went to, it was agreed that each country would get 1 heroes each, but the pope and the king went ahead and summoned all 4 so she had to placate everyone. How hard was it for her to ask the king to send her the shield in the first place? Everyone hated the shield, she knew the truth as to what happened with myne, so why didn't she have the shield sent to her and give him to another country as a token of goodwill?

It's possible that by giving away the shield to another country, others would demand to get one as well, which will make the kingdom suffer more from the waves by having 3 less heroes, but the queen can just decide this on her own since that's what was agreed to anyway, and all in the name of placating the other countries from the blunder of the king.

This all boils down to the queen not doing something sooner to resolve the situation even though everyone follows whatever comes out of her mouth. Sending melty might've been a right move in her mind, but she didn't instruct her properly and let her ride titan sized turkeys instead.

Given the prejudice of the upper class against the Shield, it probably wouldn't have worked to just say "send me the Shield". I mean, Naofumi himself tried to leave and the King and B*tch forbade it. I suspect that, given the hate shown toward demi-humans, they may fear that the Shield in the hands of a demi-human nation could become a sort of symbol used to gather all kinds of forces to attack Melromarc. Better to keep the divine avatar their enemy worships out of their hands.

Additionally, while her word may be law, that doesn't necessarily mean that the queen's influence is completely invulnerable. She's far from the capital in a time of crisis, her main ally to be used to maintain her influence was killed and his people enslaved, and positions of power are held by people opposed to her policies. While with her authority it'd be simple enough to take control if she was present giving orders, stability could have been shaky enough and those who oppose her strong enough to make the degree of action you suggest infeasible through long-distance carried decrees.

5. The queen's words might be the law, so she could just say that from now on it will be the church of the FOUR heroes, but you can't change the hearts of the people that easily. If you've spent your life knowing that the shield is the devil then that won't change overnight! Only that guy in armor that picked a fight with raph was brave enough to voice this opinion out I guess.



We did see the last 2 characters in the 2nd OP this time, so that's nice, and we might get to see some action next week too.

The way things were portrayed, it's pretty clear that the Church is not universally loved. Seems like for the most part it's only tentatively followed by those outside of the nobility, and the nobility support it at least in part on account of the fact that it's useful to their own ends. Bear in mind this was written in Japan. People practice bits and pieces of multiple religions (visiting Shinto shrines and praying to the gods, worshipping their ancestors and observing Buddhist traditions like Bon, etc.) but the majority don't really adhere strongly to any particular faith.

[Lex79]

So as I feared, it turned out that Malty's punishement basically amounts to nothing. Sigh...
Seeing the heroes bickering again felt like a plot regression, I hope things are going to change from now. At least we got introduced to the scyte guy from the opening, I kept wondering when he was going to make his appearance, too bad there are so few episodes left.

[grecefar]

raphtalia having trouble fighthing a drunk fat soldier and got out of breath against him?, so much things were wrong in this chapter.

[Twi]

Originally Posted by frodonk

Big post.

1.) If I remember right, the source materials doesn't bring it up until later volumes. This is like volume 4. It was probably just sequel bating.

2.) Myne wanted power and did what it took to get it. Melty pointed out her mother knew about that personality flaw so she removed her from the running. Shield Hero was a scapegoat in order to the Church of Three Heroes on her side and use them to deal with her mother presumably, but they were playing her like a fiddle. Remember, Melty shouldn't have been there and only came back because her mother needed someone to try to talk sense into her husband, so Myne decided to kill two birds with one stone by having her innocent sister killed by the Shield Demon and her avenging the death as an excuse to back her reputation while securing her place as the only heiress to the throne.

3.) I... honestly have no idea why she didn't have the Shadows do that. Logically speaking, this plot in its entirety shouldn't have happened, because the moment the Queen said to cut it out that would have been the end to it as her husband was the Consort. The most obvious conclusion is just the series has writing issues itself, but maybe the LN people would know.

4.) Not just the Shield Hero. She should have had Shield, Sword, and Bow sent to their respective countries if she was going to make amends. But if she did that it would be giving up some advantages as well from a political point of view, as the heroes are easily some of the best assets they have. Until they actually get into the details about what concessions she made, it's probably just an excuse.

5.) Religions don't change overnight. The fact that the Church of the Three heroes was allowed to grow that powerful (I think it's the largest religion in Melomarc) along with the other connotations means that if the Queen says to start worshipping the figure painted as a devil in their scriptures, not everyone is just going to jump.

[Kanon]

Filo's ahoge interfering with Raphtalia's upgrade as well makes sense, I suppose. It seems like this turned out to be a good thing (especially for Filo, it's nice of Naofumi to let her choose, but it feels like something she'd need guidance for), given the massive stats boosts they received. It's too bad the class upgrade system was never explained, it's all rather hazy to me. What exactly is it that you can choose, and what was the choice made for these two? They didn't tell us any of that.

I didn't remember that heroes didn't need class upgrades.

[Frontier]

Raphtalia and Filo finally get their class upgrades! Unfortunately they don't get the ones they wanted since Filo's ahoge mucks things up a little, but a class upgrade is a class upgrade. Looking forward to seeing what they're capable of .

I guess even if Naofumi has a newfound affection or care for the world he lives in now that doesn't mean he still isn't focused on getting back to his own world, which is pretty realistic. Of course that still leaves the question of what happens to Raphtalia and Filo once he leaves, though he says he won't do it until he's made sure they're absolutely happy. Which for Raphtalia basically requires him putting a ring on it .

I see where Melty got her love of animals from. The queen losing her composure while geeking out over Melty riding Fitoria was a sight to behold .

Even Melty was fooled by the finality of the last episode. She has this tearful goodbye and the next minute she's already reunited with everybody .

B-Word almost poisoning Naofumi's party is a pretty glaring failure on the part of palace security and letting her run free to begin with, but I have to say the fact that she now has to suffer the indignity of being unable to lie and being called derogatory names by everyone is still cathartic justice .

Man, it's almost like we're back to square one with the Heroes. Even after everything they went through with the Pope and Naofumi clearing his name, they still can't get along or stand to be in the same room as each other for more then five minutes. Maybe they really did just get a bad batch of Heroes, or at least they're really not compatible with each other. Which is bad when the whole idea is that they need to actually work together or the world is doomed .

I also wonder if part of the importance of the Heroes working together is that they can unlock different abilities or upgrades by believing in one another or aiding each other, like how Naofumi unlocked the copy ability when he believed in them, if only a little .

Even their parties don't get along when one of Itsuki's guys gets drunk and ticks off Raphtalia by insulting her and Naofumi, leading to the classy equivalent of a bar brawl. I love how Raphtalia almost maintains her constant serene dignity while she's about to beat that dude up .

Poor blacksmith. Even after everything Naofumi and him have been through, Naofumi just comes back in and rips off all of his shields .

Naofumi seems more concerned about doing something about the treatment of Demi-Humans while observing Raphtalia's village...foreshadowing, perhaps ?

So it seems like the last arc will be the Four Heroes' adventure on that island to gain more experience, which seems less noticeable or dangerous then dealing with a Wave or the Pope stuff but it should be interesting to see what they do with it. I'm also curious to see how this L'Aarc character and his companion play into things since it seems like they're also determined to fight the Waves .

Originally Posted by Twi

The Queen also gives Naofumi too much credit. All four of the heroes lost at the last Wave to Glass, Naofumi simply didn't die because he ran until the timer ran down.

I'd chalk that up to a win if only because he was the only hero who lasted more then a few minutes against Glass, otherwise they would have lost the Wave.

[Dark Wing]

Okay this is what we call a transitional episode were the new characters a teased/introduced and a new story arc begins.

I loved the the brawl in the dining hall. Best part of the episode!

[Wandering Soul]

Letting Myne run around without any supervision during the party is the height of stupidity.

It's pretty funny that the Queen is a fan of Filolials just like her daughter.